Official Raid Loot Feedback Thread - USE THIS THREAD for feedback.

[tihocan]

I wouldn't have believed it either except that I saw it first hand.

Offering is quick, that goes without saying.

Chains though? Under 15 minutes, I kid you not. The party leader basically solo'd it with the rest of us following about 50' behind him. It was a sight to behold.

WizKing in under 15 minutes also, but part of that was random luck with the king being in the first room.

You still need ADQ afterwards, and it's a relatively long quest, though I guess it could be done fast by splitting the party.

[Luthen]

I am glad that Devs made this a center which we could voice criticism, opinions and make suggestions. However... could we get a little more interaction on the Dev end?

[maddmatt70]

i totally agree with you here. unless the game lasts years from now there will never be toons that are completely raid looted out . i spent six months of shortmanning raids on my 4 main guys until i have gotten them to where they are. 6 months of 2-4 manning every raid the game had. 6 months of loot in 95% of the raids i ran. how are the casualy gamers Ever gonna match that with this system? they complain about not having loot before. how are they gonna get it now?

Easy open up the level cap to 18 or 20 thereby making all the old raid items obsolete. In 9 months if this game still exist and they actually follow a somewhat regular schedule the level cap will be 18 at which time nearly all of the raid loot we have acquired thus far should be obsolete. Right now from the level 10 dragon raid only the SOS and the freedom of movement boots are not obsolete or not on the way to becoming obsolete. When the level cap hits 18 all the items from the dragon raid, titan raid, and dq raid should be obsolete. The reaver raid's loot and ascension raid (note the raid loot that has been found in the ascension raid thus far other then the litany of the dead trinket is nothing to get too excited about) should be on the way to being obsolete.

Norg

[wiglin]

Easy open up the level cap to 18 or 20 thereby making all the old raid items obsolete. In 9 months if this game still exist and they actually follow a somewhat regular schedule the level cap will be 18 at which time nearly all of the raid loot we have acquired thus far should be obsolete. Right now from the level 10 dragon raid only the SOS and the freedom of movement boots are not obsolete or not on the way to becoming obsolete. When the level cap hits 18 all the items from the dragon raid, titan raid, and dq raid should be obsolete. The reaver raid's loot and ascension raid (note the raid loot that has been found in the ascension raid thus far other then the litany of the dead trinket is nothing to get too excited about) should be on the way to being obsolete.

Norg

Which is why it shouldn't matter if everyone has raid loot. Hence no reason to try to slow down the rate by which bound raid loot is introduced into the game.

[mortrae]

My two coppers...

- I agree that each and every raid should end with *some* raid loot dropping.

It's demoralizing to spend all the time and effort to complete a raid and not have a single piece drop.

If the goal is to encourage 12 person raids, then make it so that 1-10 person raids are guarenteed at least 1 end loot, and 11-12 person raids are guarenteed at least 2 end loots.

- The 20 completion end reward can be frustratingly unfair in some circumstances.

As (bad)luck would have it, I had 21 and 22 completions on the Reaver and the Titan. Three friends had 19 completions. My extra 2 or 3 runs did not net me the value lost by now having to do 19 more Reaver or 18 more Titans to get the only thing I've been trying to get from those raids.

That just seems really arbitrarily punitive (and mostly carrot on the stick) to not allow a one time retro fix for people past the magic number of 20, especially when they were sooo close on the wrong side of 20. And more importantly, since it was introduced to the game mid stream.

If the 20 completions is set up to reward people for having spent all the time and effort to complete a raid 20 times, it should have allowed for the 20 to be retroactive, or make everyone start from zero. Anything else is not fair to all involved. To be on the wrong side and not be allowed to get what someone just 2 completions below you is able to get is just wrong.

That's my two coppers.

[Drekisen]

Hmmmm....I am not gloating by any means at all, however I have only done two.....yes only two raids.....Velah twice. Well the first time was before the new raid loot system so it doesn't count....however the second time I did pull what I belive was one...a +6 wis, +7 intim helm. I think that is one but I could be wrong...but if it is, that is a a raid loot item my first chest.
I still think the explanantion of the new system was interpreted wrong and that the individual has a 1 in 6 chance of getting a raid loot item, not a guaranteed two items everytime u do a full 12 person raid, because like I stated before, it is higly unlikely you will ever get into a 12 person group, and that all 12 of those people or even two of those people were on raid 6 out of 6 attempts and in the prior five did not get one, therefore guaranteeing they would get one that time around.

[CSFurious]

first, all this game involves is repetition & memorization

with the right group, you can flag & raid dq in 2 hours or less on norm

i was doing flagging every Sunday morning in about 90 minutes, & then taking a break to watch football & then raiding the dq in 20 minutes before dinner

once you do it a few times & know who to play with, it is easy, just like the rest of this game

Wow, that is impressive. I would have to say that your experience is entirely a-typical of the average DDO player though, but only from personal experience, and feedback collected from other players.

Not sure I want to set a reward policy based on what the highest skilled players (you and your guild) can do, and rather on what is fair to the typical player group.

42 min for a total DQ flagging (Dragon I have seen close to that) is pretty darn amazing.

Regs,

muffinconsort

[llevenbaxx]

To summarize: Leave the loot mechanic. Nix the Von 1-4 pre-req as it stands, and the DQ 3 quest pre-req as it stands. I can understand not wanting to make it like the Titan, and also having it be too complex at this point to make it like the Reaver. That being the case, drop the requirement to 10 instead of 20.

And I know it probably doesn't belong in this thread...but please think twice about 'tweaking' lower level raids for what appears to be a result of higher level characters running them...it's not fair to the lower level characters and will most likely leave a bitter taste in their mouth and turn them away.

This is something I could get behind too. Make it easier to raid if you are going to lower the rate at which things drop. I too would hate to things go back to the warded chests. I am raiding more now than ever and Im enjoying it too.

[Drith]

There are less then 20'000 subscriptions left in DDO.

There are so many of us that are so ****ed off by getting absolutely no loot for their hard earned spare time (After office work and house work most of us have about 2-4 spare hours a day absolute max) and hard work and efforts (tons and tons and tons of major mnemonic pots, damaged gear, etc...) put into each raid and especially the Black Abbott.

My guild is now on it's 3rd black Abbott Kill with absolutely no raid loot to show for it. Sure we've gotten our trinket upgrades and we are very thankful for that quest cause if it didn't exist we'd not only have no raid loot but we'd have no usefull rewards at all.

So again I repeat Quarion and anyone else who's listening.

THREE BLACK ABBOT RAIDS

ZERO RAID LOOT TO SHOW FOR IT.

Other groups go into the Black Abbott and get 5 drops on their first kill.

This is NOT fairness and NOT the way Raid Loot distribution should work.

Yes TONS of people are super happy with the new system because the new system has worked in their favour.

Everyone should be able to see why a good 70 % of people would be in favour of this system.

Obviously the 20 to 30 % of people who are getting way more loot then before.

They are getting way more loot then before for 2 reasons:

1) The new system promotes more pick up raids.

2) The new system given a normal distribution will see that a small percentage of people will by pure random statistical factors get way more loot then they did before.

Then there are probably a good 30-40 % of people who are at the status quo... being that they are getting close to about the same ammount of loot then they were getting before.

And finnally you have about 30 % of your community which are getting way LESS loot then before for the following reasons:

1) Cannot short man raids for more loot as before

2) 2) The new system given a normal distribution will see that a small percentage of people will by pure random statistical factors get way LESS loot then they did before.


So bottom line is the following:

1) The new system benefits 30 % of the player base.

2) The new system is indifferent to about 40 % of the player base.

3) The new system is severely penalizing 30 % of the player base.

I'm guessing that of the 30 % that are now being penalized at least HALF will probably leave should they continue to be penalized.

So Turbine 15 % of 20'000 subscribers is 3000 subscriptions... So if you're prepared to go down to 17'000 subscriptions or less then go ahead and continue screwing over 30 % of your player base.

If my tone sounds a bit peeved or aggresive it is because they have had over a month of constructive feedback.

We warned them that this would happen and yet they did it anways....

Well they can deal with the consequences now.

Drith
Soon to be retired Founder

[Riddikulus]

So again I repeat Quarion and anyone else who's listening.

THREE BLACK ABBOT RAIDS

ZERO RAID LOOT TO SHOW FOR IT.

Statistically the chance of a group of 12 people running 3 normal 1 in 6 loot raids getting absolutely nothing is 7%.

So congratulations, you definitely beat the odds there.

Edit: I think my math was off... looks like it should be P36(0) = 0.141%, which is definitely beating the odds.

[MysticTheurge]

This is NOT fairness and NOT the way Raid Loot distribution should work.

It is absolutely fair. There's no way to suggest that it's anything else. Every single person has exactly the same chance of getting a piece of raid loot. That's 100% fair.

[Furgulder]

dragon raid normal 11 people (3 loot pieces), reaver raid normal 11 people (3 loot pieces), titan elite 11 people (3 loot pieces)

to hell with warded chests.

[Hafeal]

It is absolutely fair. There's no way to suggest that it's anything else. Every single person has exactly the same chance of getting a piece of raid loot. That's 100% fair.

Well said Mystic.

I have noticed one other thing, many players do not know what lot is "raid loot" or they do not pay attention.

I ran DQ a week ago and everyone was asking who got what ... no one reported any "raid" loot. Couple people drop and one guy finally pipes up, oh yeah, I got the goggles. I think there are also people who just don't say.

I don't think the majoirty of gamers go back to scour the dialogue box to see who got what. If they did not get something, they don't look further.

Another reason why I take the whole "raid loot" drop issue with a large grain of salt.

[Riddikulus]

I don't think the majoirty of gamers go back to scour the dialogue box to see who got what. If they did not get something, they don't look further.

Somewhat OT, I found that the new mod added the ability to click on the "so & so looted X" in the chat window to inspect the item they picked up.

Looks like some enterprising DDO dev stole some code from LOTRO. Very cool.

[MysticTheurge]

Somewhat OT, I found that the new mod added the ability to click on the "so & so looted X" in the chat window to inspect the item they picked up.

Looks like some enterprising DDO dev stole some code from LOTRO. Very cool.

Neat!

[Drith]

Well said Mystic.

I have noticed one other thing, many players do not know what lot is "raid loot" or they do not pay attention.

I ran DQ a week ago and everyone was asking who got what ... no one reported any "raid" loot. Couple people drop and one guy finally pipes up, oh yeah, I got the goggles. I think there are also people who just don't say.

I don't think the majoirty of gamers go back to scour the dialogue box to see who got what. If they did not get something, they don't look further.

Another reason why I take the whole "raid loot" drop issue with a large grain of salt.

We raid as a guild almost 100 % exclusively. Nothing gets missed ever.

It is absolutely fair. There's no way to suggest that it's anything else. Every single person has exactly the same chance of getting a piece of raid loot. That's 100% fair.

Absolutely 100 % wrong. Fairness in an online loot distribution system means that those who put in equal effort get equal reward.

This system does not provide that. It provides everyone with EQUAL OPPORTUITY!

That EQUAL OPPORTUNITY is governed by the random number generator and statistics. Which is proven to show a NORMAL DISTRIBUTION CURVE (see previous posts in this thread) which guarantees that SOME WILL BE OVER COMPENSATED and SOME WILL BE UNDER COMPENSATED which is ABSOLUTELY COMPLETELY UNFAIR.
There is absolutely no way to argue this otherwise.

You simple do not have the facts to be able to back this up other then "everyone has the same CHANCE"

Yes everyone has the same CHANCE yet chance in itself does not mean that people will be rewarded equally and if people are not rewarded for their efforts equally then that is not fair.

[maddmatt70]

My guild is now on it's 3rd black Abbott Kill with absolutely no raid loot to show for it. Sure we've gotten our trinket upgrades and we are very thankful for that quest cause if it didn't exist we'd not only have no raid loot but we'd have no usefull rewards at all.


THREE BLACK ABBOT RAIDS

ZERO RAID LOOT TO SHOW FOR IT.

Other groups go into the Black Abbott and get 5 drops on their first kill.

This is NOT fairness and NOT the way Raid Loot distribution should work.

Yes TONS of people are super happy with the new system because the new system has worked in their favour.

Drith
Soon to be retired Founder

I hear you that is one expensive raid, but thankfully the raid loot is with the exception of the litany of the dead trinket not very good so you are not really missing anything. Once the fun of the challenge of the raid wears off this raid will be deadsville...

[Drith]

I hear you that is one expensive raid, but thankfully the raid loot is with the exception of the litany of the dead trinket not very good so you are not really missing anything. Once the fun of the challenge of the raid wears off this raid will be deadsville...

Agree 110 % Man...

[Braddock_Tharmwell]

Agree 110 % Man...

Ummm, I think you just proved MT's point. How can he be 100% wrong and yet madd gets to be 110% correct. That's not fair. lol

[MysticTheurge]

Ummm, I think you just proved MT's point. How can he be 100% wrong and yet madd gets to be 110% correct. That's not fair. lol

Well you see. We both had the same opportunity to be right, but the system overcompesated one of us and the other one was undercompensated. And that's NOT FAIR!