Official Raid Loot Feedback Thread - USE THIS THREAD for feedback.

[Cinwulf]

Reaver normal 12 man 5 pieces
Reaver elite 12 man 1 piece
Reaver elite 12 man 0 pieces
Reaver elite 12 man 2 pieces

[Mad_Bombardier]

Mock him all you want MT but it's not changing the fact that this raid loot system isn't working and needs to be tweaked. And soon.

Reaver, Normal, 12 man, 6 loot drops.

AND I get a guaranteed drop after 20 runs. The new system works fine for me!

[Katrina]

Last night
10 man reaver elite yielded 8 pieces.
You can only see 7 on the list though (theres another amulet just a bit down)

[Jaywade]

Well, no.. never happened to me either, but I heard MANY a story about the cleric who couldn't roll on a SoS, or the fighter who couldn't roll on the dragon helm, etc etc. So I know it WAS happening, and this change took that away, and less people are getting screwed on that angle, so I am fine with that.

If a dex rogue takes the SoS, that is his choice. IMO, it's a selfish choice, but his choice nonetheless. I'd rather see people taking their own loot, then having some obnoxious leader declare what's right for what builds.


It's not perfect, no, but I think it's better. Perhaps further tweaking will get it where it needs to be to suit ALL players. (Have you ever tried to make EVERYONE happy - not that easy)

I maybe comming to this late....that's the whole reason we started shortmanning things....casue I wanted that dragon helm on my fighter...a battle cleric wanted the belt and the sos...ect ect....now you have to grind to 20 and hope in the run you either are lucky enough to pull the item, or you pull something you can trade for the item you want or it drops for you in your 20 completions...lame

[Gornin]

Reaver elite - 2 pieces - 12 people

Titan elite - 0 pieces - 10 people

[Vinos]

Reaver, Normal, 12 man, 6 loot drops.

AND I get a guaranteed drop after 20 runs. The new system works fine for me!

The system works like any other system. Some like and some hate it. I have been in a reaver raid where 5 items dropped but IMO that's not the point. The biggest complaint is when NO loot drops(which happens 11% of the time with a 12 man team).

[FlyinS]

I feel the new system benefits the average player, who raids every now and then.

The old system, who got the loot was controlled by the leader, and you can be sure that heavy raiding guilds used a system to see who got loot and who didn't. The average player, in that case was always the low man on the totem pole. They had no control and didn't put the time in to raise their chances of being considered.

This way, if they go, they have the same chance as everyone else. No one can deny them what they get.

This only takes into consideration the scenario of a heavy raiding guild bringing along a casual pugger, and then denying the pugger any chance at the loot upon completion.

I would submit that is/was a low volume of cases out of the full sample.

It's still a bad system for the casual gamer.

[Vinos]

This only takes into consideration the scenario of a heavy raiding guild bringing along a casual pugger, and then denying the pugger any chance at the loot upon completion.

I would submit that is/was a low volume of cases out of the full sample.

It's still a bad system for the casual gamer.

While I am not a fan of the new system I would argue that any raid system doesn't benefit the casual gamer. IMO raids aren't made for the casual gamer. They are end game content for the powergamers.

[MysticTheurge]

It's still a bad system for the casual gamer.

I'd venture that the new system is no better or worse than the old system for the casual player (which may be what you intended to convey by saying "still a bad system").

A casual player is more likely to be doing normal raids in 12 man groups, putting their chances of getting raid loot exactly where they were pre-Mod 5.

[Dane_McArdy]

While I am not a fan of the new system I would argue that any raid system doesn't benefit the casual gamer. IMO raids aren't made for the casual gamer. They are end game content for the powergamers.

And I disagree, all content is meant for all players, as all players have the same access to it.

The amount of time any person spends playing is their choice.

Often the casual player is also the laidback player, they take what comes thier way, in terms of groups. This is certainly understandable, if the person only has so much time to play, you don't want to be too picky about what you do.

But again, what you put into anything will determine what you get out it.

If you can put in 6+hours a day, you will get more, then if you can put in 6+ hours a week. It doesn't change the raids, the way you get access, it just takes longer for one player over the other.

The new raid system IS much fairer to the casual player, because when they can do raids, they won't go in knowing the chances of getting raid loot is zero because of the leader of the raid. If they get it, it's theirs. End of story.

If the idea of controlling who gets raid loot isn't the issue, why did so many people try and get others to agree that raid loot shouldn't go to the person who it's tagged for? That's really the problem I feel. Wanting to control who gets what.

For the casual player, not having that controlled favors them.

[Donnie]

Bad rolls or not, if someone runs three raids in a day and sees no items drop that is a big problem.

I like the new system better than the old but still think at least one piece of loot should drop everytime.

[Vinos]

And I disagree, all content is meant for all players, as all players have the same access to it.

The amount of time any person spends playing is their choice.

Often the casual player is also the laidback player, they take what comes thier way, in terms of groups. This is certainly understandable, if the person only has so much time to play, you don't want to be too picky about what you do.

But again, what you put into anything will determine what you get out it.

If you can put in 6+hours a day, you will get more, then if you can put in 6+ hours a week. It doesn't change the raids, the way you get access, it just takes longer for one player over the other.

The new raid system IS much fairer to the casual player, because when they can do raids, they won't go in knowing the chances of getting raid loot is zero because of the leader of the raid. If they get it, it's theirs. End of story.

If the idea of controlling who gets raid loot isn't the issue, why did so many people try and get others to agree that raid loot shouldn't go to the person who it's tagged for? That's really the problem I feel. Wanting to control who gets what.

For the casual player, not having that controlled favors them.

Saying that the new system benifets the casual player is silly. So on the off chance they get the 1 in 6 roll and then the 1 in 10 that it's an item they can actually use is an improvement? I do agree with you that control was an issue for some but the new system wasn't put in to adress that issue. It was put in to reduce the amount of raid loot generated. And despite what you may think raids are put in to keep the powergamers occupied until new content is released. Casual players do have every right to raid but they if they are casual then they aren't raiding much.

[Dane_McArdy]

Saying that the new system benifets the casual player is silly. So on the off chance they get the 1 in 6 roll and then the 1 in 10 that it's an item they can actually use is an improvement? I do agree with you that control was an issue for some but the new system wasn't put in to adress that issue. It was put in to reduce the amount of raid loot generated. And despite what you may think raids are put in to keep the powergamers occupied until new content is released. Casual players do have every right to raid but they if they are casual then they aren't raiding much.

You see it as silly, and i suspect it's because you feel robbed by your personal experience.

And inspite of what I might personally think, other games may only do raids for powergamers like yourself, but DDO does not, and they have said just that. All content is meant for all players, they don't belive in making content that is only accessable by a subset of the whole player base.

That means they don't make content with just the powergamers in mind. Which is of course, why powergamers often seem to have the same issues with the game.

Considering that raid loot, in either system had an element of luck, the casual player got the short end no matter what, because with only running raids so few times, the chances of getting lucky were ALWAYS low, and in the case of the first system, could be brought to zero because the leader said so.

Casual player rights gained with this change. Chances might not be better, and in your opinion they are worse.

[Dane_McArdy]

Bad rolls or not, if someone runs three raids in a day and sees no items drop that is a big problem.

I like the new system better than the old but still think at least one piece of loot should drop everytime.

What if they gave people a choice?

You can use either system. The old or the new.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Last night
10 man reaver elite yielded 8 pieces.
You can only see 7 on the list though (theres another amulet just a bit down)

I thought it was only seven actually - there were only two amulets. OMFG!!! I quit!!!one!11!!eleven!!111!

Sigh,

Garth

[Mad_Bombardier]

Bad rolls or not, if someone runs three raids in a day and sees no items drop that is a big problem.

Considering the drop rate is 1 in 6, I fail to see how 0 in 3 is a problem.

If that same person runs 60 raids and gets <5 drops (allowing for deviation from averages), then we have a problem.

[Dane_McArdy]

Considering the drop rate is 1 in 6, I fail to see how 0 in 3 is a problem.

If that same person runs 60 raids and gets <5 drops (allowing for deviation from averages), then we have a problem.

Not discounting out that there could be a mistake in the raid loot mechanics, your right. 3 raids with no loot isn't good enough data. Considering we are also hearing about 3 raids with 4+ items each time.

[Vinos]

You see it as silly, and i suspect it's because you feel robbed by your personal experience.

You may suspect that but you'd be wrong. The whole abbot thing was a kick in the junk but I have also been on reaver raids that have yielded 4 items

And inspite of what I might personally think, other games may only do raids for powergamers like yourself, but DDO does not, and they have said just that. All content is meant for all players, they don't belive in making content that is only accessable by a subset of the whole player base.

Where have they said that?

That means they don't make content with just the powergamers in mind. Which is of course, why powergamers often seem to have the same issues with the game.

Then please explain why a grind is required to access these raids which by definition a casual player doesn't grind?

Considering that raid loot, in either system had an element of luck, the casual player got the short end no matter what, because with only running raids so few times, the chances of getting lucky were ALWAYS low, and in the case of the first system, could be brought to zero because the leader said so.

Never seen that happen and in fact the opposite is true in many cases. My wiz was given a +3 INT tome because no one else really needed it. If a casual player was to tag along with a powergamers there isn;t a reason to think that the casual gamer would never get raid loot.

Casual player rights gained with this change. Chances might not be better, and in your opinion they are worse.

Opinion has little to do with it. There are enough mathmatical posts that show my opinion as fact.

Turbine isn't all knowing Dane. You are allowed to disagree with something they do from time to time.

[Dane_McArdy]

Turbine isn't all knowing Dane. You are allowed to disagree with something they do from time to time.

So, when Turbine posts what they feel about the content they make, I should assume they are wrong? You mean they are lying to us?

For the record, I have disagreed. The difference between me and other people is that I can often work around something I disagree with, I don't need to express myself in a insult filled rant, and I don't need to keep saying it over an over.

So when I disagree with what Turbine has done, it tends not to get noticed, because others are much more vocal. Example, when the new enhancement system came out, it left UMD in the mud. (HA HA HA!) There wasn't any reason for that, other then they were putting the hurt on batman builds. Rogues and Bards, which have it as a class skill, didn't get any boost to it, when every other skill and ability for every other class got something. It was left out on purpose, and I disagreed with that.

[Vinos]

So, when Turbine posts what they feel about the content they make, I should assume they are wrong? You mean they are lying to us?

Aside from CODOG no dev has posted about what they really "feel" about content. There are alot of changes made with no explaination. I don't recall a dev sating the raid loot was changed because of X or Y