Maximize or Empower

[MysticTheurge]

So if I were going to drop Spell Focus (Evocation) and pick up either maximize or empower (you know, cause I like the new metamagics), which should I get?

Or would people recommend Heighten more?

For what it's worth, I've currently got quicken and extend.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Maximize. I accidentally left in on during some chain healing/curing and didn't even notice my bar drop. Might as well get the bang when you need it, too.

*If you still have Empower Healing, Impaqt had the great suggestion of swapping EmpHeal for Empower. Then you could add Maximize, too.

[MysticTheurge]

*If you still have Empower Healing, Impaqt had the great suggestion of swapping EmpHeal for Empower. Then you could add Maximize, too.

Psh, empower healing. I never picked up that ****.

[sigtrent]

Well....

empower is 15 mana for X1.5 the damage
maximize is 25 mana for X2 the damage

So generaly speaking.. maximize is more efficient and more powerful so long as you are starting with decent damage.

now with a low level spell lets say level 1 for 10 mana...

You could cast twice for 20 or once at double damage for 35, so not a great deal there. So levels 1-3 are more efficeint normal after that Max is as good or better

Empower doesn't get more efficient until level 6 spells

Max & Empower together deliver X3 damage for 50 mana and equal/excede normal casting at level 4

Before you always lost efficeincy with these things so they are much better now than they were. Maximize looks like a better deal all around for straight damage unless you are over-killing things a lot, that seems unlikely.

And of course effieciency can be measured over time, especialy with healing mobs. I'd take max on any character wanting to do spell damage and I'd take both if I can manage it at high levels.

[Impaqt]

My Null Cleric carries Maximize, Heighten, and Extend....

I'm seriously considering Swapping out Heighten for Empower Spell though...... The Cost of EMpower spel and Maximize are just too damnenticing.... I find myself pretty much leavng heighten on all the time now since it doesnt effect my cure spells anymore.... I love the Heightened Soundburst, and Hold Person (People usually assume its the wiz or sorc tossing the holds around) but the extra damage could be quite handy....

Quicken seems to be an incredibly popular choice now as well with the reduced cost... Sever guildies pickedit up and swear by it..... Maybe I could swap out Extend for Quicken.... I doubt many thing are gonna survive a pass or two through a Maximized and Empowered Blade barrier.... Hmmmm....

[Khurse]

Are the feats valuable enough that it would be worth taking a level of Wiz
(and losing some SP ~ 10 INt) to gain an extra one?

[MysticTheurge]

Quicken seems to be an incredibly popular choice now as well with the reduced cost... Sever guildies pickedit up and swear by it..... Maybe I could swap out Extend for Quicken.... I doubt many thing are gonna survive a pass or two through a Maximized and Empowered Blade barrier.... Hmmmm....

I've only played a small bit since I swapped MT for Quicken, but I'm definitely loving it so far.

Heals are basically immediate, Blade Barrier is remarkably fast. I have to worry a lot less about trying to get a spell off while I'm being hit.

Heck, if I'd had the opportunity in the first place I probably would've ignored Concentration, picked up quicken and spent my skill points on UMD.

[redoubt]

Empower = 1.5x
Max = 2x

What does empower heal actually equal? And what is the cost difference?(Trying to decide if I should trade emp heal for one of the others.)

[Mad_Bombardier]

Empower = 1.5x
Max = 2x

What does empower heal actually equal? And what is the cost difference?(Trying to decide if I should trade emp heal for one of the others.)

Empower Healing used to be a straight increase; +50% cost for +50% healing boost. With ImprovedEmpHeal enhancement, you got more output than cost. So, it was pretty much always worth it to have and use.

Now, it costs +10SP for +50% Healing only boost. Compare to Empower Spell that is +15 SP for +50% All spells boost. There is no comparison. 5 measly SP for the same output on Healing and utility of All spells. Empower Spell is the new way to go.

[Impaqt]

Now if we can only convince turbin Clerics desert to be able to reduce their metamagic costs other than Empower Healing we'll be in excellent shape.

At least the Action point Cost:Reduction in cost ratio isnt nearly as appealing as it used to be.

[MysticTheurge]

Now if we can only convince turbin Clerics desert to be able to reduce their metamagic costs other than Empower Healing we'll be in excellent shape.

That's definitely on my list.

[Mad_Bombardier]

That's definitely on my list.

Yupyup! We spent the feat, we should get the enhancement. We have many appropriate class-based enhancements. Now we need more feat-based enhancements!