Black Abbot Raid Closed.

[loki523]

For those people who do not think Using a Bug is an Exploit and bannable this is from the Eula.

Awesome cut/paste skillz but we all know where to find this and have already read it.

5. While playing the game or participating in the Game, you may not exhibit or partake in behavior that is disruptive to the game’s normal playability

Repeating a quest over and over does not disrupt the game's normal playability for any of its users.

causes grief or alarm to other players, or degrades the service performance or other players’ client software

Repeating a quest over and over doesn't cause grief or alarm to other players or degrade the performance of other players' client software.

(for example, deliberately using game bugs or loopholes to disrupt the game or dropping excessive items or summoning excessive portals).

It is impossible to know if something is a bug or loophole unless the developers identify it as such. This is where Turbine fails...frequently. In any case, repeating the quest does not disrupt the game.

18. You will not exploit, distribute or publicly communicate any game error, miscue or bug which gives an unintended advantage within the Game world.

Again, it is impossible to know if an NPC giving you a quest is a game error, miscue, or bug or whether repeating the quest gives players an advantage that is unintended without an official say-so from Turbine. It is NOT the players' job or responsibility to make these assumptions.

You may report bugs at ddobugs@turbine.com.

The timer issue was reported as a potential bug as soon as it was encountered.

I'm assuming that you're one of the people arguing that repeating the quest is NOT an exploit since that is what you proved with your post.

[Barumar]

I have a question if this "issue" was not an exploit - why did the Dev's DELETE EVERY THREAD that mentioned it or made reference to it?

I actually see both points of view, and if people were told my Dev's - "go ahead and ransack it!" then who am I to say they cheated?

However, why the heavy hand by Turbine if it was not?

[pana]

i would not personally have cared if they shut it down and focused on fixing it all week. No they closed it down and desided to take the weekend off. AGAIN there was no exploit as stated from turbine QA and costumer service. we did our part for it. The quest giver telling you there was a timer means that indeed he was bugged not the quest. why would he give you the raid completion text before you completed the quest. AGAIN has nothing to do with the community.

I got a idea complete the raid before you respond.

have a nice day!

[Nataichal]

Hmmmm. Not too many have beaten the raid so far. Wonder who's getting burned for exploiting? :P

[Crarites]

I have a question if this "issue" was not an exploit - why did the Dev's DELETE EVERY THREAD that mentioned it or made reference to it?

I actually see both points of view, and if people were told my Dev's - "go ahead and ransack it!" then who am I to say they cheated?

However, why the heavy hand by Turbine if it was not?

I find that quote highly unlikely

[pana]

there was no "heavy hand" because they themselves messed up and didnt want to come out and express it.

[Renegade66]

What was the "exploit"? Was it really that bad that it had to be shut down?
My toons are not even flagged for it yet...still need 7 sigils and three of the quests anyway :P

There was no "exploit" that I know of in how to beat the raid. There was a big question as to how long would you have to wait to repeat the raid and if you had to do anything to reflag for it. After beating it the first time, we found that the devs did a great thing and made it so you didn't have to rerun mindnumbing quests like Chains of Flame to reflag and that they did away with the timer. In essence you could go right back in. Seemed like awesome programming to me. I guess it ended up being "unintentional functionality" and a weekend without the new raid content.

Bummer

[Hydro]

Wow so people should be banned for not reading quest NPC text....

The reason no one got even a temporary ban is that there was no exploit.

[D'rin]

The raid timer would not have been as much an issue, but now if there is no raid timer, people can run it 20 times in a day and get there raid loot pick not to mention all the loot they got on 20 times. So I can see how this would disrupt game balance. I don't really care that the raid is closed since I was on vacation and am only now getting raid ready.

[jjflanigan]

*edit*...totally not worth it. the cheaters will always get away with it

[MysticTheurge]

We are aware of some issues surrounding the new raid, which may result in an exploitable situation. We have closed the quest so that we may make changes to block the exploits, and hope to have them open again early next week.

We apologize for the inconvenience and thank you for your patience.

It's just the raid quest that's closed, right?

[Perceval418]

Explain to me how it is not a bug?

A bug is an error in the program that causes the program to do things not as attended... that is what was happening.

I think exploits are typically considered things like standing in "safe spots" So you dont get hit when your supposed to be able to be hit, bugging out mobs so they become stationary and confused, or using areas of poor coding in the game to your benefit.

Has anyone ever casted Magic Missle while slightly behind something but with the mob still on your screen? Then youve exploited and, according to many of you, everyone who's done that should be banned.

Or have any of you ever stood in a fireplace to not be hit by mobs in stormcleave? Then youve commited a bannable offense.

Or what about maze of madness before the patch, running it with cloudkill and level 10's? I dont think the devs Intended that to happen, or they would have never changed it. Bannable.

Have you ever had a mob bug out which you then killed anyways? Bannable. Should have reported it, even if it was a kobald.

Im not trying to be rediculus just putting it into perspective, theres a ton of things that could be debated as bannable, and i think turbine is to blame for the slow responce in shutting down the quest. What happened with this quest was in my opinon opportunism, not exploitation.

Just my 2cp

[dragnmoon]

It's just the raid quest that's closed, right?

Correct Mystic

[sigtrent]

Here's my take....

Ya, running the raid over and over is technicaly an exploit. It is not an especialy grevious one, especialy if the timer simply isn't functioning. I suppose if you are the worlds most lawful player you might refrain, but the vast majority of players who could run a raid over and over for cool loot would do so. It's not like they were doing something sneaky, they just took the quest and then ran it (so far as I understand). Those trying to defend themsleves have no need to, although the fact that they are doing so anyway, makes me suspicious. No one named names but some folks made them selves consipcuous by their comments.

As to turbine closing it.. COPE! It was broken so they took steps to stop the bleeding for a bit. Had to happen sooner or later. It will be back there will be many opportunities to do the raid. They didn't test it out well enough apparently but we all know that happens, tis the nature of MMOs. They are always under pressure to get stuff out ASAP.

I am under the impression the timer is not the only "exploit" here. The way the raid was being performed was apparently not at all what was intended as the primary challenge of it. Again, folks can't totaly be faulted for finding a way around things, but there is nothing wrong with the DM making some asjustments so the quest is the kind of challenge it was intended to be.

[Randz_Stormbringer]

I dont see any of the elite'ist expressing gratitude towards Turbine, ...

[ccheath776]

Awesome cut/paste skillz but we all know where to find this and have already read it...

The bug was an exploit. You dont know how ignorant anybody makes themselves sound by stating "Well I didnt know it was an exploit therefore it was not.."
Well I can apply that in other places.
"I didn't know murder was against the law therefore it isn't.."
Dumb statement huh?
Comon, nobody in DDO is that dense to assume that being able to repeat a Raid multiple times was intended to operate that way. And then to make it worse people got warnings and kept RIGHT ON DOING IT believing that it still was not an exploit. UNbelievable.

Repeating a raid quest like the abbott is disrupting game play.
WHY? because those players who did it probably got every black abbot named raid loot that was available.
So expect that you will see a minority of players walking around decked out in uber loot thanks to this little problem.
IMO. I say remove all of the black named loot from every players inventory and start over at 0. Those who exploited ban them. Thats all I got to say about that.

You know I used to play a game called Battlefield 2142. You know why I do not anymore, because of the overadbundance of cheaters and exploiters in that game. And the unwillingness of the development company DICE to fix it. It just kept reminding me of the degredation of society that there are people who just do not want to play fairly and will cheat whenever possible. So I stopped playing.
Not accusing people in DDO as cheaters but you have to raise an eyebrow at people who defend or continued to defend this exploit. Specially with a naive statement like "We didn't know it was an exploit..."

Players, especially the more expeirenced ones should have known better.

[Hydro]

Did you ever stop to think that the people running the raids were there for the fun and insane challenge and not just the loot. That raid is truly the only challenge left for me and most of my guildies and I would run it again not for loot but the satisfaction of beating it.

[loki523]

...then I could buy the whole "I'm innocent, I didn't know, curse you turbine!"

Buy whatever you want. Nobody cares about selling you anything.

seriously, don't try to come off like you weren't in the wrong and act all high-and-mighty being upset with Turbine.

Actually we can certainly "come off" this way and we don't even need to try. That's because we weren't in the wrong. That's a fact. And for those of you who are refusing to read what's been posted, nobody (from Legion at least, or that I know of) is upset with Turbine for fixing the raid timer. Pana and I are pretty upset that they chose to shut down the raid on a weekend to do it. Should have been done this week...

If they could have trusted players, like you, to not abuse the problem, they wouldn't have had to take it offline.

First, they would have had to take it offline to fix it period. Second, we reported the bug and spoke to Turbine about it before we took any action which could be considered exploiting.

So far I'm definately seeing a bunch of jealous people here who can't even beat the raid posting about something that isn't any of their business and crying about someone else doing something that impacted them in no way, all the while being totally and completely ignorant of the facts concerning the matter, which is understandable because, again, it's none of their business. Pretty weak...

[pana]

again we have filed reports on this raid starting on monday both on the timer and on the content of the raid. We where told by devs that it could be done without completing the puzzles. Which is a great thing because honestly puzzles in every raid get annoying. I am not defending myself here i am simply stating. Turbine you had all week to work on it bring it down what ever. You choose to do it on the weekend. YOUR highest playing times. Why. Thats my point and problem with the whole thing. If anything we did with the raid was considered a exploit then it is turbines resonsibility to notify us as such. That is what the forums are for. We as legion did nothing wrong what so ever in this whole raid content period. We have been watched on how we do the raid, our play style, and such by both other guilds and by the eye in the sky. So there is nothing to prove to any of you guys,

have a nice day!

[Twerpp]

Wow so people should be banned for not reading quest NPC text....

The reason no one got even a temporary ban is that there was no exploit.

LOL I agree dude who reads the story anyway, I'm just here to kill monsters and take their stuff! I would have have a 3 INT anyway if I could and I couldn't even communicate with NPC's.