Still Getting Hit By Held Mobs

[Hence]

Also saw this bug the other day in Vol... Flesh to Stoned a Quell and he still attacked through his stone.

I remember when this was not a problem, but when they fixed players being able to slide around on the ground when tripped, they messed up the mobs.

[Riggs]

Totally off topic, but I thought MtG used the "stack" so it was LiFo (Player A would die first)?

It's quite possible that it is related to actions being "queued" for MOBs, however that only works to a certain extent since they would obviously have the logic in place to "jump the queue" since if you are fighting toe-to-toe and step backward, the MOB will stop it's attack long enough to come towards you again. If they can do JIT queue changes for the MOB actions, one would think they could just as easily flush the queue so the mob stops moving / fighting immediately once the server parses the "halt" action.

Damage or 'Instants' would stack, but resolution would not ocur until all effects had been calculated. So you could not prevent soemone from killing you by trying to kill them first with an instant - both would die at the end of the phase.

By Inturrupts for DDO I was thinking not so much of actions, but inturrpting the queue that is clearly in place. If someone has 3 swings queued up, being held should stop the queue. (Which seems to work on players but not monsters).

Also, (back on topic) it is clear there is a lag between the graphics and gameplay in DDO. For example - you see your sword hit a kobold that is jumping away, or running away, but you get no roll. In turn, you try to run away from something, SEE their attack pass 20 feet away from you when it lands, but still get hit anyway.

I am guessing part of the problem is this 1-2 second lag that has existed from day 1. You SEE a hold monster land, but the monster, according to the server has ALREADY attacked you, and that attack still gets resolved even though you are seeing a held monster zoom around the field.

Another example was say in Tangleroot. I range the cleric in the gorge just before the quest, and as soon as he raises his arm to cast a searing light, I duck behind the wall. I see the spell impact on the wall, yet still take the damage as if I was standing out in the open.

This happens in all sorts of situations, attacks/spells whatever.

[Spectralist]

Unless the "continuing actions" also include attacks. My experience has been that they only do it for a certain period after being held. It's not a continuous thing. And that seems consistent with it being related to network latency issues.

That's a particular problem for DDO because of its "real time" combat. I'm sure there are a lot of fudges to permit real time combat even with significant network latency.

I's also possible that they check whether a monster is capable of an action when queueing it on the monsters AI list. But not when the monster executes it. That could explain why it (usually) only seems to happen for a brief period after being held, tripped, or whatever.

[Qzipoun]

That could explain why it (usually) only seems to happen for a brief period after being held, tripped, or whatever.

But it doesn't only happen for a brief period. Go up to a hobgoblin mellee then have someone hold him. He will put out his sword and start hitting you with an invisible bow until either you are dead or he is dead.

[Spectralist]

Damage or 'Instants' would stack, but resolution would not ocur until all effects had been calculated. So you could not prevent soemone from killing you by trying to kill them first with an instant - both would die at the end of the phase.

I don't know if you have just not played in a long time, cuz i think that's how it used to work, but you most definitely can prevent your death by using instants now, first in last out, but if player1 is dead before his spell resolves then it does not resolve. Interrupts aren't even made anymore, and havent been for a loooong time(unless they just recently reissued them) and all old interrupts count as instants. Only tapping land is ignored by the stack system.

But it doesn't only happen for a brief period. Go up to a hobgoblin mellee then have someone hold him. He will put out his sword and start hitting you with an invisible bow until either you are dead or he is dead.

Well, i did say usually as i have heard of that happening. But i've never seen it. To me it's always been right after the enemy was held, etc. And i doubt its a 'he attacks but latency slows it issue', because if it were the same would happen when an enemy dies sometimes, and i've never had that happen when i was not clearly laggin' bad to begin with.

[Riggs]

I don't know if you have just not played in a long time, cuz i think that's how it used to work, but you most definitely can prevent your death by using instants now, first in last out, but if player1 is dead before his spell resolves then it does not resolve. Interrupts aren't even made anymore, and havent been for a loooong time(unless they just recently reissued them) and all old interrupts count as instants. Only tapping land is ignored by the stack system.

True, I havent played MtG since 4th edition, so at least 5 years I think. Not up on whatever changes have been made. (but it was a good game bfore heh)

[Elthbert]

I ran my weekly loot runs for cash of the giant caves with my guild leader last night and we still took hits from boulders or the club of the giant that was currently being held and the fire giants would also cast fireball at us on occasion as well.

I think it was happening less than it used to, but I have to say nope they did not get the problem fixed yet Oh well as long as there is progress.

I have had the same problem repeatedly. I have bug reported it. I hav ehad them keep moving, through rocks, trip me, and hit me all while held, sometimes after significant time has passed.

[Missing_Minds]

What is sad that is if anything, the "held" monster issue seems to be a lot worse than what it was.

[ahpook]

Just so you know, it isn't just monsters.

I say this because my dwarf was displaying a similar "problem". Ran him into Cerulean Hills where he was stunned by a bard. I was hitting the attack key so he could start swinging as soon as he was "unstunned" and low and behold the bard dropped dead. No swing animation, but a couple hits were registered none the less even though the dwarf was still stunned.

I have seen this a few times more. If I hit the attack key, the mob dies. If I don't hit the attack key he lives. So, it doesn't seem to be prequeued actions in this case.

I haven't seen this with holds though. Only stuns.

[Raithe]

From what I've seen, it has never been a "brief period after the spell takes affect" network latency fudging issue. If a monster moves when it shouldn't, it seems to be able to continue moving indefinitely. If a monster fires an arrow when it shouldn't be able, it seems to be able to continuously fire arrows. Same for melee attacks. It does seem to me, however, that the mob cannot switch from being able to fire arrows when they shouldn't to being able to move when they shouldn't.

It looks to me like only one type of action is slipping through the cracks at a time.

[Elthbert]

From what I've seen, it has never been a "brief period after the spell takes affect" network latency fudging issue. If a monster moves when it shouldn't, it seems to be able to continue moving indefinitely. If a monster fires an arrow when it shouldn't be able, it seems to be able to continuously fire arrows. Same for melee attacks. It does seem to me, however, that the mob cannot switch from being able to fire arrows when they shouldn't to being able to move when they shouldn't.

It looks to me like only one type of action is slipping through the cracks at a time.

Well I was chasing a giant who was moving while held and he hit me, and he did so without turning around however.

[Cuiva]

I have also witnessed this. I have charmed a monster, and he runs over to smack his friend. I will then charm his friend, but they will still be fighting for a couple of swings before getting in line like proper minions. This does support the queued actions theory...

And M:tG changed its ruleset around in 6'th edition. Now it uses the stack and checks for state based effects all the time. State based effects include a player on 0 life, and a monster with 0 or less toughness. If any of these state based effects happen, the result is immediate, and ignores the stack. A player on 0 life dies instantly, and all his spells on the stack is removed.

[Raithe]

I have also witnessed this. I have charmed a monster, and he runs over to smack his friend. I will then charm his friend, but they will still be fighting for a couple of swings before getting in line like proper minions. This does support the queued actions theory...

And yet as soon as both mobs appear charmed, they are unable to actually do damage to each other. We probably don't want to assume that all issues (bugs) with mob behavior are related, especially when comparing spells that change aggro lists with those that (should) cause incapacitation.

[Elthbert]

they are also casting scorching ray while held!

[MrWizard]

I have only seen them finish as existing attack or spell cast immediately after I paralyze, flesh to stone, or hold monster them...

And of course, some just 'run a little bit' or even a 'lot a bit' away after I stone/para them