feed back and improvements on this build...Please

[jorebag]

Tomes are optional...., i figured to get my str to 24

Level 14 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(10 Paladin / 2 Rogue / 2 Ranger)
Hit Points: 221
Spell Points: 215

BAB: 13/13/18/23
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 18
Will: 12

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 14) (Level 14)
Strength 15 21 21
Dexterity 10 13 14
Constitution 12 14 16
Intelligence 10 10 10
Wisdom 12 14 14
Charisma 14 16 18

Tomes Used
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 14
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 14
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 14
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 14

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14) (Level 14)
Balance 0 2 6
Bluff 2 4 4
Concentration 3 12 12
Diplomacy 2 4 4
Disable Device n/a 1 1
Haggle 2 4 4
Heal 1 2 2
Hide 0 5 5
Intimidate 2 4 4
Jump 2 5 5
Listen 1 2 2
Move Silently 0 6 6
Open Lock n/a 3 3
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 0 0 0
Search 0 1 3
Spot 1 3 3
Swim 2 5 5
Tumble 1 3 3
Use Magic Device 4 24.5 24.5

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Dwarven Stability
Feat: (Automatic) Dwarven Stonecutting
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Dwarven Waraxe
Feat: (Automatic) Giant Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Orc and Goblin Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Poison Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil
Feat: (Automatic) Snneak
Feat: (Automatic) Spell Save Bonus (Dwarf)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip

Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands

Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Health
Feat: (Automatic) Fear Immunity

Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead
Spell (1): Bless
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Divine Favor
Spell (1): Lesser Restoration
Spell (1): Protection From Evil
Spell (1): Resistance
Spell (1): Virtue

Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)

Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Remove Disease

Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)

Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (2): Angelskin
Spell (2): Bull's Strength
Spell (2): Eagle's Spendor
Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom
Spell (2): Remove Paralysis
Spell (2): Resist Energy

Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+8)
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding

Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Hide (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+5)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion (Rogue)

Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy

Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)

Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Search (+1)
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith I
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith II
Enhancement: Follower of the Silver Flame
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancemment: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Ok, I'm kind of confused about this build as a whole.

1) The 2 Ranger Levels at 11 & 12 - What are they for? Is that for Two-Weapon fighting? If so, that is very late to take it, and without ITWF & GTWF you loose most of the reason for going Two-Weapon Fighting, the 7 attacks per round. You would only get 4 attacks per round when TWF (I think, it may be 5 tho)... I can understand splashing Fighter, but not Ranger like this (I can understand Ranger 2 at Levels 2-3 and then taking the rest of the TWF line). You also end up at Paladin 10, which cuts you off from 30-point resists, BoG 3 & RoG 3.

2) You should take Power Critical @ L9, not L12... you want that as soon as you can get it

3) 2x +3 Tomes and 3x +2 Tomes are a BIT excessive, as you cannot guarantee any of those except your one 1750 Tome. I can understand planning for 5x +1 Tomes and one 1750 +2 Tome, but planning for Multiple +2 and +3 Tomes seems like a bad idea to me.

4) Your starting stats: 15/10/12/10/12/14. First off, that is only 26 points... builds are 28 or 32 points. Also that's a low starting Str for what appears to be a melee-oriented Paladin, and 12 WIS and 14 CHA seem high to start with for a Paladin as well, especially the 14 CHA for a Dwarf.


5) Your Enhancements: 4x SP AP's and only 2x HP AP's? What do you need that many Spell Points for, when you have both Paladin and Dwarven Toughness available.

6) 2x Rogue - This means Evasion, which means Light Armor, and you don't have a high enough Dex.

7) I'm not trying to harp on the build, but have you looked at my "Basic Paladin Build Guide"? It has a lot of sample build-outs that might be a better starting point.


Might I recommend for a 32-point build:
STR: 17 + 3 (Levels) + 2 (1750 Tome) + 6 (Item) = 28 (+9)
DEX: 13 + 1 (Tome) + 1 (Rogue's Dex 1) + 5 (Item) = 20 (+5)
CON: 14 + 1 (Tome) + 2 (Dwarven Con 2) + 5 (Item) = 22 (+6)
INT: 10
WIS: 10 + 1 (Tome) + 5 (Item) = 16 (+3)
CHA: 12 + 1 (Tome) + 2 (Paladin Cha 2) + 5 (Item) = 20 (+5)

This should end up around 308 Hit Points (with 4 HP AP's, 358 with all 8), Saves with a +4 Resistance Item & Greater Heroism of 32/30/22 and a to-hit around 40 when buffed with GH & DF.


I think what you are looking for the the Dwarf Version of the Holy Avenger (aka Evasion Paladin - 11 Paladin / 2 Rogue / 1 Fighter)


check it out.

[Impaqt]

I'm sure Dworkinmenat take Improved Crit at 9....

Power Crit is pretty useless.. Dont recomend it usually.

What are the 2 Ranger Levels For? Quite Confused on that.

Silver Flame ENH? +1 to Hit with Longbows? WHy?

What spells do you think you'll need to cast during combat? I cant think of any..... Concentration is a Wasted Skill on this build.

Take ROgue level 1 to maximize skil points.

[sigtrent]

It's always a good idea to post what you are trying to achieve when soliciting advice on a build.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

I'm sure Dworkinmenat take Improved Crit at 9....

Power Crit is pretty useless.. Dont recomend it usually.

What are the 2 Ranger Levels For? Quite Confused on that.

Silver Flame ENH? +1 to Hit with Longbows? WHy?

What spells do you think you'll need to cast during combat? I cant think of any..... Concentration is a Wasted Skill on this build.

Take ROgue level 1 to maximize skil points.

Yes, I meant Improved Critical. And Power Critical is useful if you are using a Kopesh or some other x3 or x4 weapon, but otherwise it just isn't that important.

[Impaqt]

Yes, I meant Improved Critical. And Power Critical is useful if you are using a Kopesh or some other x3 or x4 weapon, but otherwise it just isn't that important.

Power crit makes no difference in the Critical Multipier at all.....

Power crit ONLY adds to the COnfirm roll. It does NOT add to damage like the Seeker effect.

[jorebag]

Power crit, the dex is higher with a +4 5 or 6 item.

I am focusing on dwarven axe usage. Fighter would give me an xtra feat, and if taken early could focus on twf.

Yes, evasion build more than anything else, but the ranger was for favored enmy and the twf. its not really necessary.
I did not figure really on the tomes, +1s I have plenty of, and I have a +2 str tome in the bank already.

Items I do have +6 str belt
+4 dex item
+5 Wis
+4 Con Item
and
+6 cha item

I clearly was not thinking as much as i should have been.

Thanks.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

I know that.... I mean, that confirming the crits is really only that important for x3 and x4 weapons, as the extra damage on 2x critting weapons isn't that big... Confirming the crits is more important on the higher crit weapons, and is the only time I might take Power Critical for a Paladin

[jorebag]

With a reflex save in the 20s do i really need to worry evasion is based on reflex is it not? fail on a 1 i find a 5% failure acceptable.

[Scalion]

With a reflex save in the 20s do i really need to worry evasion is based on reflex is it not? fail on a 1 i find a 5% failure acceptable.

I don't know about all the spell DCs, but I can tell you that to do the swim in the crucible on elite you need about +35 to reflex saves to only fail on a 1. Mid 20s is good, but not great.

I'm not sure what buffs etc you are including when you get your numbers, but your total reflex save needs to be at about 35 after buffs etc.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Without Evasion:
Failed Save = Full Damage
Succeed Save = Half Damage


With Evasion:
Failed Save = Full Damage
Succeed Save = NO Damage



So yes, you do care about Evasion.

[Girevik]

4) Your starting stats: 15/10/12/10/12/14. First off, that is only 26 points... builds are 28 or 32 points.

You know, I didn't get 28 points when I did it the first time either, but then when I started a post to display that, I did.

15 Str : 6x1 + 1x2 = 8
10 Dex : 2x1 = 2
12 Con : 2x1 = 2
10 Int : 2x1 = 2
12 Wis : 4x1 = 4
14 Cha = 6x1 + 2x2 = 10

8+2=10+2=12+2=14+4=18+10= 28

So, it does come out to 28 points.

Now, whether it is a good allocation or not....

It really isn't that bad for a new player. The 10 Int is the only real "fat" I see. I would go with an 8, but if he has a solid need for the skill points, then it needs to be a 10.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Odd... it didn't add up before for me either, but now it does.

Anyways, for 28-point I would think more like:
17 + 3 (Levels) + 2 (1750 Tome) + 6 (Item) = 28
13 + 1 (Tome) + 1 (Rogue Dex 1) + 5 (Item) = 20
14 + 1 (Tome) + 2 (Dwarven Con 1) + 5 (Item) = 22
8
8 + 1 (Tome) + 5 (Item) = 14
12 + 1 (Tome) + 2 (Paladin Cha 2) + 5 (Item) 20

And I'd still recommend 11 Pal / 2 Rog / 1 Fght

[Jondallar]

10 Paladin 2 Fighter 2 Rogue ftw the +1 to saves/ac from lvl3 aura enhancement not necessary, and for the most part 20 pt resists are enough, and wands of 11th lvl ele resist are fairly common drops at least for me when I feel I need the extra+10 on resists. With evasion and Hi Pally saves I rarely get hit for elemental damage (except acid which is always negated with 20pt resists). 2nd lvl of fighter gives fighter str1 and an extra fighter feat, take toughness an extra time and you make up the 10 pt resists you are missing with 16 extra hp.