Why isn't bluff instant?

[parvo]

I can't think of any reason why Bluff isn't instant like Intimidate and Diplomacy. It doesn't make much sense. Bluff, in it's current form is even less useful than Intimidate and Diplomacy were before they wer changed to instant. It should be made instant and therefore useful.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Feinting in combat, a.k.a. bluffing, is a move action at the best, so it's not instant.

[Borror0]

That's why there is Improved Feint.

[parvo]

Feinting in combat, a.k.a. bluffing, is a move action at the best, so it's not instant.

Bluff is not feint. Bluff should take no more time than Intimidate or Diplomacy.

[Okita]

If often wondered this myself...

I kick myself all the time over it on my rouge... I have a 40ish bluff on her...

and nowhere near that high on diplomacy, shrrrruuuggg

[Knightrose]

Eventually most of these skills will be pointlessly anyway. As characters become stronger in DDO they also become more efficient. Which leaves once useful tactics in the dust.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

If often wondered this myself...

I kick myself all the time over it on my rouge... I have a 40ish bluff on her...

and nowhere near that high on diplomacy, shrrrruuuggg

Ya, at L5 I realized the difference and stopped adding to bluff and switched to dip.

[Bizbag]

Bluff is not feint. Bluff should take no more time than Intimidate or Diplomacy.

But the Bluff action is Feint. When you perform the Feint action, you make a bluff check. What's the difference?

[QuantumFX]

I can't think of any reason why Bluff isn't instant like Intimidate and Diplomacy.

I can: rogues are the red headed step children of DDO...

[Snike]

But the Bluff action is Feint. When you perform the Feint action, you make a bluff check. What's the difference?

Bluff is a Skill. Like diplomacy.

Improved Feint is a Feat. Like TWF. And required Combat Expertise.

That is a HUGH difference. Saying the Bluff action IS Feint may be true in your mind but on my action bar it still says bluff... looked all over no Feint here. Improved Feint sure...

What do you call diplomacy in combat? I'm interested.

[Okita]

ya, my rogue doesn't have the feat so talking about it like it's just a feat is silly.

It's an active skill - just like diplo and intim

[ErgonomicCat]

ya, my rogue doesn't have the feat so talking about it like it's just a feat is silly.

It's an active skill - just like diplo and intim

Honestly, the argument should be "Why are diplomacy and intimidate instant"?

It should be: Skill: Attack/Full round action. Feat: Move Action. 2nd feat: Instant action.

*points* "Hey! Look! A monkey!"

*handwave* "I'm not the mage you're looking for."

*Chest pound* "Hey! Look at me when I'm hitting you!"

[MysticTheurge]

Bluff is not feint. Bluff should take no more time than Intimidate or Diplomacy.

This is incorrect. Bluff, as it's implemented in DDO, is feint.

[binnsr]

Bluff is not feint. Bluff should take no more time than Intimidate or Diplomacy.

Think of it this way:
Intimidate = flexing your muscles and hollering something about the mobs mom..
Diplomacy = tossing a bag of shineys on the ground so they don't pay attention to you
Bluff = convincing them you're not as bad as they think you are..

convincing takes time
that said, my rogue doesn't use either diplo or bluff -- bluff takes too long and diplo sheds agro onto your casters..
Bluff allows your next attack to be a sneak attack
Diplomacy drops agro and makes them seek out another target (and with todays AI, that means the arcanes and clerics)

[parvo]

This is incorrect. Bluff, as it's implemented in DDO, is feint.

Saying "Your socks are untied" is not a feint. Yelling "It's the Goodyear blimp!" is not a feint. Nowhere have I seen Bluff reffered to as feint. Bluff is not feint. It needs to be tweaked just like Diplomacy and Intimidate.

[MysticTheurge]

Saying "Your socks are untied" is not a feint. Yelling "It's the Goodyear blimp!" is not a feint. Nowhere have I seen Bluff reffered to as feint. Bluff is not feint. It needs to be tweaked just like Diplomacy and Intimidate.

Perhaps you'd like to check the, I don't know, D&D rules

Feint

Feinting is a standard action. To feint, make a Bluff check opposed by a Sense Motive check by your target. The target may add his base attack bonus to this Sense Motive check. If your Bluff check result exceeds your target’s Sense Motive check result, the next melee attack you make against the target does not allow him to use his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) [ed. note: this also allows you to sneak attack the target]. This attack must be made on or before your next turn.

When feinting in this way against a nonhumanoid you take a -4 penalty. Against a creature of animal Intelligence (1 or 2), you take a -8 penalty. Against a nonintelligent creature, it’s impossible.

Feinting in combat does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Feinting as a Move Action

With the Improved Feint feat, you can attempt a feint as a move action instead of as a standard action.

[Laith]

Perhaps you'd like to check the, I don't know, D&D rules

you should also note that, in 3.0 PH at least, the feint action was only outlined in the Bluff skill description.

[parvo]

Perhaps you'd like to check the, I don't know, D&D rules

Perhaps you should...oh...I don't know....maybe read the DDO description of Bluff from the DDO compendium?

Bluff
Allows you to bluff certain NPCs, or make monsters vulnerable to a sneak attack.

After all, the game we're playing is DDO.


While your at it, copy and paste the Intimidate and Diplomacy rules from D&D so we can compare that to DDO...

[Mercules]

After all, the game we're playing is DDO.

Would that stand for Dungeon&Dragons:Online by any chance?

[MysticTheurge]

Bluff
Allows you to bluff certain NPCs, or make monsters vulnerable to a sneak attack.

And that's exactly what feint does in D&D. (Plus a bit more about flat-footedness and no dex to AC, but DDO ignores AC adjustments like that.)