You spelled THAC0 wrong, and got the acronym wrong.
It's To Hit Armor Class of 0. Also, to my knowlege, it was discontinued after 3E. Indeed THAC0 makes little sense in a world where a higher armor class is better.
You spelled THAC0 wrong, and got the acronym wrong.
It's To Hit Armor Class of 0. Also, to my knowlege, it was discontinued after 3E. Indeed THAC0 makes little sense in a world where a higher armor class is better.
Glory Hounds, mount up.
Thanks all for the suggestions and critical comments. I'll append the Feather Fall "static" end-reward to CC/WW for sure -- those boots are good for freeing up the ring slot from the ring of feathers.
Also, I spelled THACO wrong on purpose. And if you understand what THACO is, 1. It made sense. 2. It still makes sense even when you are raising the armor class.
Your To-Hit +37 is in reallity a -37 to a given target. If the hit lands at 0 IE 37 - 37 = 0, then it is a hit. If the armor class is lower ie >36, you've gone below armor class 0 and ergo have hit. Remember, negative armor class was added in 2nd Ed and prior. 2 minuses = 1 plus. So you've gone above a 0 and it's a hit in standard 3.0+
For those who are completely lost, here's a quick look at a Pre-3 Ed. Fighter Progression.
Level: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21+
Thaco: 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 >0
Given these statistics, let's examine a level 5 fighter in Pre-3ed. His Thaco is 16. Currently he has to roll a 16 or better to hit a natural armor class of 0. But wait, his opponent has a -2 armor class (lower is better!). This is 16 - -2 = 18, so now he has to roll an 18 to hit the adversary, which grants him a 15% chance to hit. Oh noes!
However, a second opponent in only a loincloth hide advances at the fighter. This opponent's armor grants him a 5 ac (7 hide armor -2 for a 14 dex). Now the fighter switches to dispatch this opponent quickly before continuing on his primary opponent. To hit the hide-armored opponent the fighter's new Thaco is 15. This can be determined in the same mathematical equation, 16 - 5 = 11. To Hit Armor Class Zero the fighter must roll an 11 or higher.
Third edition created an inverse of this system in which the bonus which lowered the Thaco became the To-Hit Bonus applied against an opponents total AC 10 + armor + dex + enchantment + deflection/etc = total enhancement. In reality a 27 AC in DDO and Third Edition+ is really just a -7 AC in Pre-3d Edition, and the To Hit bonus is just the inverse out of 20 of the THACO of a class level.
Last edited by Kistilan; 07-15-2008 at 06:06 PM. Reason: THAC 0
THAC0 was an insane measure. The straight +to hit, +AC makes so much more sense.
I still love THAC0, don't get me wrong. But using it in 3.X is gonna confuse people. It's your to-hit.
I play on Ghall...Gall..Galli...The new Fernia. Lifetaker, Heartbreaker, and Battlemage
Terrakal: Roguey Stabby guy. Gyness the Stout: I drink to hide my rage. Gyshe: Race: Elf. Class: Elf. Roomsweeper: Boomsticks. Ramparts: Pally Intimitank. Crucible: Hammer and Tongs. And Shafted: Cleric* Archer *Not a cleric.
Nice guide.
Once you know how to speed-run VON3 - it's worth getting each member of the group to advance one at a time - then you can run it six times. Very fast way to rack up the XP while you're around lvl 8 or 9
Garth
Garth 20/ftr (Kensei) Haeson 20/clr Cairis 12/ftr 6/rgr 2/rog Xortan 20/wiz
Tinosa 20/brd Garthbot 20/fvs Gaarth 18/ftr 1/rgr 1/rog (Stal Def)
Tibetan 20/mnk Automatic DDO raid timers Haezon 20/sor (Conj)
OMG!
That's a huge point I failed to include! Thanks willphase. When I'm done vacationing in Hawaii (under the sea!) with my friend Katonya I'll edit the guide about solo-advancing for xp. Thanks again for pointing that out!
This guide has been an amazing help in leveling up, any plans on updating it with the new content stuff?
An emphatic YES.
However, I'm still at Officer Training School, so I haven't had a chance to play DDO since October!!! I promise there will be more updates to this beast in the future after OTS.
gratz on OTS.
Another valid XP strategy is to run VoN 5 over and over again without actually beating the dragon .. This is particularly lucrative during bonus XP weekends
The statement in Red is false. If you fail, you can attempt VoN5 again. If you succeed, you go on timer and have to repeat all of the VoNs again.
Any plans to get this guide up-to-date?
-=]ArchAngels[=-
Yes and Yes and Yes.
I'm at Nav Training which is very busy, but myself and Kreeper are working on some new up-to-date XP Strategies.
You're right, I wrote the level 10+ stuff on minimal sleep & time. I'll correct the VoN5 vs VoN6 mistake when my Internet is back up. I've actually been running VoN5 Elites for XP lately without doing the dragon.
I've also lately developed some new strategies that actually enable players to level from 1-level X in 12 hours, X being the highest level achievable. It's amazing actually. My guild and allies are still pegg'n out the best quests to use this new tactic, but it's totally viable. I don't think VoN5 can be utilized -- at least not on elite. Hard & Normal, maybe.
I will update the Path to Power on Advanced XP Levelling, but I am afraid I cannot publish The Chronotrigger Initiative yet. It may never be published on these forums, actually, due to personal reservations. It will be published on Stormrune.Com for all Argonnessen Chronotrigger Iniative Affiliates prior to the Druid & Half-Orc update.
Hi Kistilan,
I've actually been running through the low level quest in an attempt to get some stats on the quest. But I just though you might want to know that the base XP for Euphonia's Challenge is actually on 246. The 1500 XP you will get if you skip the quest but you will have 1746 if you go through the quest (if you break all the breakables you do get the ransack bonus and I think it's 25% bonus). From what I can tell, the 1500 is to get you the XP needed for your first action point.
Just FYI....
thanks,
Dae
Yeah man, you're right.
However, the purpose of the guide is to be faster than heftier in xp at times. It's much faster to bypass this one if you know what you're doing. Good stuff though for those that want an edge on xp from the beginning -- it'll take longer, however. I've never had a problem gett'n capped before level 2 and meeting my speed requirements. I would recommend only capping if in a solid level 1 group -- else, advance to level 2 and run with a group of level 1s and 2s through Info is Key to reach level 3 and then at level 3 max xp on Info is Key and Bonebite henceforth with an occasional elite Bringing the Light if creature control is available (wiz level 3/Sorc level 3/bard level 3/cleric level 3).
The quickest way to level 2 is to do the Bonebite quest twice. Run it once on solo for 1300xp (a little more if you don't zerg it and kill the spiders, etc.) then run it again on normal for 1800xp. The trick to defeating Bonebite is to make sure you have that last shrine door open, he might kill you once or twice on normal but you can always keep rezzing. You could also run the quest twice on solo, which will leave you a 200xp gap, at which point just go and run Home Sweet Sewer which takes 30 seconds to get all the dogs out and you should have enough exp to gain a level. (This isn't bad since your level trainers are right there at Aspirants Corner)
At level 2, you run the same quest again 2 solo, 4 normal, 4 hard and you should be level 3. This however you can do only with good melee types, casters can't solo this quest on hard. Or just find a good group willing to zerg it.
With a tricked out barb you can get to level 3 in about 45 minutes. Also, the lobster is directly across from the quest which makes for mana/health restoration fast.
Last edited by cyadra; 07-15-2008 at 01:24 AM.
EDIT: I just reread what I wrote and what you wrote. *_* To Hit Armor Class 5. C'mon..... that's like, digging into the weeds for a piece of bark to chew on.
So, THACO = 20. Armor Class = 7 (Natural 10 -3 for Hide = 7) and Dex was 14 for a -2 to AC: 7 - 2 = 5. I added 2 to 7 to get 9 and sub'd from THACO. The correct guide is 20 - 5 = 15 THACO. A player then needs only roll a 15 or higher to schwack the brigand. HOWEVER: A 5th level Fighter has a base THACO of 16, so 16 - 5 AC = 11. To Hit Armor Class 5 (which is a modified THACO, TYVM) is 11.
THACO means literally the following: To bypass all protection and strike into the flesh (or whatever you're prenetrating) with an attack. You're not really swinging to hit a ZERO, it's just the standard by which you do successfully connect to create damage. In most cases, this means penetrating armor or finding a chink in the armor or catching a nimble opponent with a swing and dealing damage beyond their physical and/or magical protections.
Or you can do it the D&D 3.0 way, which is 10 (Your Skin) + 3 (Leather) + 2 (Your Dex) = 15 and roll a 1d20 + To Hit to find out if you SCORE! Love the new math.
Note:
I've been doing a lot of research the last 3 weeks. The guide will be updated soon, sans Chronotrigger Alliance Initiatives (these are hosted elsewhere).
PS: To Cyadra's post 2 above, yes, that'd work, but Information is Key can be run on elite with a group of level 2s in 5-7 mins a run with little to no death failure. The same results can be achieved. Save Bonebite for level 3 and milk the elite xp. To reset the Bonebite instance (to run it again) requires running to the Guard in the Harbor Master's Quarters, which is a LONG run. The Lobster is much closer to reset Info is Key & allows for repairing and selling loot all in one stop.
Last edited by Kistilan; 07-15-2008 at 06:12 PM.
Here's a couple of suggestions for higher levels (13-16).
Level 13: Immediately on hitting level 13, get Shroud flagged. This involves running each of the following quests once on normal (all of the quests are good XP anyway):
Running with the Devils
Ritual Sacrifice
Let Sleeping Dust Lie
Coalescence Chamber
Rainbow in the Dark
I recommend allowing level 13-16 groups here - less XP than an all-13 group, but you'll do the quests far faster. Once you have done these quests, you want to run The Shroud to completion (30K XP for first run and lots of great loot), and start running it on normal every time you come off timer until you are capped. If you are not in a powergamer guild, you may have trouble finding a Shroud group at level 13 unless you are a pure-classed Cleric, but it is possible to make one yourself.
Also, if you have not already, make sure to flag for the Reaver's Fate and run it every time you are off timer - it's a lot of XP and also has good raid loot. If you know the quest well, at level 13 or 14 you can start also running Hound of Xoriat the same way - also excellent XP.
While you are on raid timers, I recommend choosing one of the following paths for XP running.
Option 1: The Necropolis path (requires significant quest knowledge but is very efficient in a good group)
Run Desecrated Temple of Vol, Inferno of the Damned, Ghosts of Perdition and Fleshmaker's Lab once each on normal, then hard, then elite. This will award a lot of XP and you should also have a completed Sigil by this time. Once you do, start running Litany of the Dead (the Black Abbot preraid) over and over - that quest has utterly insane XP, can be easily done on normal, hard and even elite, and has excellent loot as well. As an added 'bonus', this makes you flagged for the Abbot raid, so if you are feeling suicidal, you can feel free to jump in there too.
Option 2: The Gianthold/Meridia path (more PUG friendly, but slower)
Do any remaining Gianthold quests once each on elite, then do the Shroud flagging quests an additional two times each on normal, once each on hard, and once each on elite. Bring your A-game to Running with the Devils elite, that one can be mean.
I don't have a zerging problem.
I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.
Thanks Sirgog!
Yeah, I ran all the Shroud content last weekend. I need to run it a few more times to be able to hand-pick the quests and give critical tips, but I definitely agree level 13 on normal. I did it with a level 12 character, but he was supported by level 13-15 characters.
Reaver's Fate & Gianthold will definitely be in the level 11-16 range. I have to run the Necropolis high-level stuff to be able to determine if any of these fit the PtP mold.
So far I've got Ritual Sacrifice & Let Sleeping Dust Lie pegged for high-level zerg fests. Rainbow and Coalescence required more knowledge. Running with the Devils was harder (but I ran it on hard at level 12 too). Maybe that one is good -- seemed straight forward.
Continuing to gather info on quests for faster speeds and Chrontrigger Alliance Initiative too! Feel free to post "speed tips" for the high level quests in Shroud, Gianthold, & High-Level Necropolis! I need to update this thing after all.
Speed tips on Meridia quests:
Running with the Devils: All melee-oriented toons should dualwield Wounders (W/P optimal, but Wounding is sufficient). Arcanes play a support role (especially if running this underlevel where SR is a killer) and save their SP for the boss fights. Eladrin have low Con scores, they go down like butter. For the final fight, make sure to fight them one at a time unless you are feeling very, very cocky. Can be speedrun. Bring Transmuters for the rednamed eladrin. He's a mongrel.
Ideal party makeup: 1 melee bard, 3 TWF melees with wounders, 1 Cleric, 1 Arcane with Acid Fog and Firewall
Classes that shine: Ranger, Cleric
Spells that shine: Haste, GH (if no bard, the +4 to hit helps a lot), Recitation (same reason, some foes have high AC)
Coalescence Chamber: Get a WF 16 Wiz or 16 Sor to solo it. Stand at the entry. Run to chests if you can make it without falling.
Ideal party makeup: 1 WF caster, 5 anything
Spells that shine: FoM or Fire Shield (prevents Web), Symbol of Persuasion, Firewall (latter two for crowd control in the corridors)
Spells to avoid: Jump (actually makes the jumps harder in places due to hitting overhead obstacles)
Items that make the quest much easier - Kundarak boots, Resist Lightning 30 on an item
The others I can't think of any particularly fast ways to do, but on the plus side, many of them are frequently lootrun by level 16s who will happily take another character along.
The Necropolis stuff is faster for levelling but requires a lot of quest knowledge (for instance, Inferno of the Damned can be run in 10 minutes by a group that all know it backwards and are prepared to split the party - a PUG may take 90 minutes and not complete)
I don't have a zerging problem.
I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.
Just thought I'd get this back to the first page, since some people might not have known about it...no need to keep rewriting the same guides when excellent ones like this already exist![]()
Another tip for powerlevelling, using a quest few people ever consider.
Inferno of the Damned powerlevelling guide:
Recommended group level: 13-14 or 13-15 (highly twinked lower level toons welcome too)
Ideal party makeup: 2 Clerics, one of which can at least hold their own in melee, 1 Arcane with D-Door and Haste (can be a bard), 1 Arcane with Flesh to Stone (can be the same person as the other arcane if they are not a bard; Web and Discoball are both inferior but acceptable substitutes), melees.
Items that make the quest easier: Disruptors, Con damage weapons for Fire Eles only. If the first Arcane is a Bard, they must have UMD and Fireball or Burning Hands wands.
Spells that shine: Banishment (should be named Mass Swat Mephit), Fear, Flesh to Stone, Mass Suggestion, Suggestion
Strategy:
First, kill as little as possible. Everything that is killed on the Light Side is reincarnated as an undead on the Fire Side. These undead are tougher than their live versions and mostly fire-immune. Charm spells create excellent distractions - either charm one mob and run past as the others turn on them, or mass charm a pack and run past while they salute you.
This quest is organised like a bicycle wheel with four spokes. To make things more confusing, there's two copies of the quest (it helps to think of one being vertically above the other, that's the way the game engine has it) and you must frequently port from one to the other. I will refer to the quest as though it were a clock face - you have the centre, north is 12 oclock, east 3, south 6 and west 9. The two levels will be referred to as the Light Side and the Fire Side. Some passages are blocked on one side but notthe other. Oh, and the wheel isn't perfectly round, but is pretty close to it.
You enter the quest at Light Centre. After buffing (Resist Fire, Cold and Lightning, GH on those not immune to fear, Deathward on all, Stoneskin on squishies, extend nothing), split into two groups. Group 1 has to have the melee-capable cleric and the D-Door caster; group 2 optimally is the other 4, but you may want an extra melee with group 1.
Group 1 and 2 both go west to Light 9 o'clock, then port to Fire 9. Here they split.
Group 1 goes counterclockwise toward Fire 6 (they get stuck at Fire 7), ports to Light 7, then walks to Light 6, CC's the mobs there (Charm effects are optimal here), lights the four torches with Fireballs, and kills the Fire Elemental that spawns. Then, they D-Door, and run to catch up with group 2.
Group 2 goes clockwise toward Fire 12. At Fire 10½, they'll be able to port to Light 10½ and they should. They then return south to Light 10, light torches and do a Fire Elemental fight. Then, they port back to Fire 10½, go to Fire 10 and use cold spells (Cone of Cold scrolls, Ice Storm wands) to put out the torches, summoning a Cinderspawn (these are killed rapidly by Disruptors even on Elite; DPS is a solid option too).
By this stage the groups should have reuinted and you are probably low on SP. Keep progressing clockwise until you reach Light 11 and a fork in the road. Northeast leads to a shrine and a chest that can easily be screwed up. Take that path first.
In the next room (Light 12), you can see a resurrection shrine but no rest shrine, and several human mobs. One is named Acolyte of Flame - when that mob dies, a once-only teleport to the Fire Side happens within a Haste radius of that mob. Optimally, you want to immobilize that foe without letting him leave the room, gather the whole party on him, then kill him so you all port to the Fire 12 room - a locked room with a chest, and a rest shrine. (If you fail and only some party members get the teleport, they can open the locked door from inside Fire 12 - if you fail badly and noone gets the teleport and survives, the shrine and chest are lost (probably costing blue bar folks 1 mana pot each) and anyone dead inside Fire 12 must release and reenter). Flesh to Stone is the best spell to immmobilize the Acolyte, but Web or Discoball will also work in a pinch.
Once you finish, return to Light 11 or Fire 11 (can't remember which, but the one that allows you to leave via the southeast exit, think it's Fire 11), and run through that to 1 o'clock. The north wall has a secret door holding a portal, use it (if needed) to reach Light 1 and do a Fire Ele room, then port to Fire 1 and kill a Cinderspawn.
From here on, the quest is much easier. Just keep to the outer rim of the quest, and go clockwise. Port only when forced to, kill as little as you can, and you'll have the Light 3 fire ele down in no time, then the Fire 6 Cinderspawn (there's also another Acolyte of Flame room at Light 6 leading to another chest and another shrine), then run north to Fire Centre, kill everything, then east to Fire 3 for the last non-rednamed Cinderspawn. Then rebuff if needed (Fire and Cold resist, DW) and pick a fight with Cinnis, the Cinderspawn that will not disrupt. Use Cone of Cold, Bladebarrier, melee DPS and Heal to kill him.
Once you are done (probably takes 30 minutes if you are using this guide but not experienced; 35 if you don't split into two groups early and instead have the whole party do Group 1's job), return and repeat it on normal. Over time, you'll get it to 15 and maybe even 10 minutes. 3 normal runs, 1 hard, 1 elite and BAM - you have the hardest to find Sigil piece, 40000 XP and 15 chests (20 if you do the optional I haven't covered).
I don't have a zerging problem.
I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.