Paly Scroll Check?

[Mad_Bombardier]

Quick question for the Paladin experts: When can a Paladin use a Restoration scroll?

It's a Paladin level 4 spell (14Paly), but spells are coded with Cleric levels. Since there is no half caster level in DDO, I'm theorizing that a Paladin can use it at level 5, just like a Cleric. Other than rolling a Paly and fast leveling him to 5 to test it myself, can anyone help me with a definitive answer?

[Impaqt]

Actually, You'd only need to level him to 3 to check... You should get a Caster Level check at that point(Succeed on a 4) if its coded for "Divine ML3 CL5" scroll

Would be an interesting find... WOuld open up a whole new angle for the 11Fighter/3Paly builds for sure.

[Blazer]

Now see, I've tried using these scrolls on my 10F/4P and I seem to remember she failed on rolls of 14 or even 16. I was going to carry these scrolls around on her, would make life very nice, but determined that I'd probably need to roll a 20 or something to make it work. Regardless, I've got nothing going on tonight in game so I'll just pick up a stack and try them out and see what I find.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Actually, You'd only need to level him to 3 to check... You should get a Caster Level check at that point(Succeed on a 4) if its coded for "Divine ML3 CL5" scroll

Would be an interesting find... Would open up a whole new angle for the 11Fighter/3Paly builds for sure.

On the same note, Deathward would also work (scrolls only from loot, not at vendor) and Freedom of Movement could work for Bard (scroll at 5, spell at 10) and Ranger (scroll at 5, spell at 14). I can personally test FoM on my 5Bard tonight (provided I can find a scroll).

[Mad_Bombardier]

Now see, I've tried using these scrolls on my 10F/4P and I seem to remember she failed on rolls of 14 or even 16.

You should be able to use them. The min level on scrolls is character level (as wands), while the scroll check is caster level. So a 10xxx/4Paly should succeed on a 6 or better (d20+8 >= 14).

[Blazer]

You shouldn't even be able to use them. I *think* the min caster level on scrolls is caster level, not character level (as wands). So a 10xxx/4Paly should not even be able to attempt it. You are probably failing a UMD check instead (which are typically much tougher than caster level check).

Perhaps you are right. Well, as I said, I'll look into this tonight and let you know what I find out.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Ok, just asked a random 5Paly to help test and "drumroll, please" <......>

5Paly can use a Restoration scroll with a caster level check versus caster level 7 spell (as Cleric). My tester failed the first roll and made the second. This is absolutely HUGE! Because scrolls are univerally coded for Wiz/Cleric, Palys are getting the spell 9 levels before they can cast it.

I can only assume the same goes with looted scrolls* for Paladin Deathward, Bard/Ranger FoM (*both of which are not available at vendors), and to a lesser extent Bard GrHero (cast at 13Bard, scroll at 9Bard).

[Impaqt]

Ok, just asked a random 5Paly to help test and "drumroll, please" <......>

5Paly can use a Restoration scroll with a caster level check versus caster level 7 spell (as Cleric). My tester failed the first roll and made the second. This is absolutely HUGE! Because scrolls are univerally coded for Wiz/Cleric, Palys are getting the spell 9 levels before they can cast it.

I can only assume the same goes with looted scrolls* for Paladin Deathward, Bard/Ranger FoM (*both of which are not available at vendors), and to a lesser extent Bard GrHero (cast at 13Bard, scroll at 9Bard).

This is indeed Very interesting....

ANd I'm fairly certain Minimum Level for a Scroll is based on Character Level.... Not caster level.... My 1Paly/6 CLeric was able to use Raise Dead Scrolls if I recall correctly(With a Caster level Check)

[Mad_Bombardier]

ANd I'm fairly certain Minimum Level for a Scroll is based on Character Level.... Not caster level.... My 1Paly/6 CLeric was able to use Raise Dead Scrolls if I recall correctly(With a Caster level Check)

Oh, you're right. My 12Ranger/1Cleric can also use Raise Dead scrolls. I just play her so infrequently, I always forget.

ml: for scroll use is character level. But, the caster level check uses caster level.

[Impaqt]

So Caster LEvel on a Restoration Scroll is 7 RIght?


So a 3Paly/11Fighter

(3x2)=6+d20 > 14(7x2)

You should succeed on a Restoration scroll on an 8 or better.

[Mad_Bombardier]

So Caster Level on a Restoration Scroll is 7 Right?


So a 3Paly/11Fighter

(3x2)=6+d20 > 14(7x2)

You should succeed on a Restoration scroll on an 8 or better.

Right; 35% failure rate, 65% success rate. Which is the same check and rates for a 3Paly/2xxx (ml: to use the scroll).

[Blazer]

You should be able to use them. The min level on scrolls is character level (as wands), while the scroll check is caster level. So a 10xxx/4Paly should succeed on a 6 or better (d20+8 >= 14).

Okay, so I tried them last night. I definitely got a caster check and not a UMD check. I bought a stack of 10 and burned through them all, failing on every single one of them. My highest roll was a 19 (+8), as a 10F/4P. Any thoughts?

[Impaqt]

Okay, so I tried them last night. I definitely got a caster check and not a UMD check. I bought a stack of 10 and burned through them all, failing on every single one of them. My highest roll was a 19 (+8), as a 10F/4P. Any thoughts?

Interesting..... I suppose I could try it on my 2Paly/3Fighter/1Rogue Build..... I havent put much into UMD yet so it should still default to CLC Ithink....

[Mad_Bombardier]

Okay, so I tried them last night. I definitely got a caster check and not a UMD check. I bought a stack of 10 and burned through them all, failing on every single one of them. My highest roll was a 19 (+8), as a 10F/4P. Any thoughts?

No clue.

19(+8) Failure could mean that you're checking against L14 (28 for success). To be honest, I didn't ask my 5Paly test subject what his rolls were. He failed once, succeeded on try #2, and I left it at that. I suppose he could've had 18(+10) Success.

Blazer, try with another stack and see if you succeed on a 20. If so, that's it. And we can get Impaqt's results, too. He should fail on a CLC 20(+4), but succeed on a UMD of 20(+12).

[Blazer]

Will do and will let you know tonight/tomorrow.

[GHOSTRYDER]

pretty sure that the caster level check is 2 x the level that YOUR class needs to be to cast the spell, not the caster lvl on the scroll

[Impaqt]

The devs have said on several occations that Scrolls are COded to their Primary class.....

THis is why Clerics sufer Arcane Spell Failure Checks on Symbol and Summon scrolls....

If they can recode a scroll according to whether a paly or cleric is uing it, THere shouldnt be an issue coding it for Arcane vs. Divine..... So that excuse goes out the window if we confirm this diference.