C'mon CODOG... say or do something!

[Gratch]

Because 2H weapons still have a slightly slower animation on the 5th attack, we've added another glancing attack onto that attack to help compensate. We managed to fix the animations for the 5th attack on one handed, one handed with shield, and dual wield attack animations. This change will become affective in Module 6.

So is this saying that Superior Two-Handed fighting is no longer a new feat and instead sort of "part of the combat system" at least until the 2H weapon animation gets in-line with the others? Or is there *also* a feat that will raise you up to two glancing attacks on the 5th swing?

Us Two-Handed fighters getting 2 feats for 15th, 16th would really appreciate the latter.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Yes, the BAB is 15. Yes, Codog should have worded it better. What he means is:

+15/+15/+20/+25/+25

- Edit -
Oh and one more thing. The increasing bonuses are an unnecessary diversion from D&D. They should decrease by 5 after each swing.
I.e. in D&D a level 15 full BAB melee class would have a progression of +15/+10/+5

They would also swing 3 times as fast as a level 1 character .. which would be pretty crazy in DDO.

[Codog]

So is this saying that Superior Two-Handed fighting is no longer a new feat and instead sort of "part of the combat system" at least until the 2H weapon animation gets in-line with the others? Or is there *also* a feat that will raise you up to two glancing attacks on the 5th swing?

Us Two-Handed fighters getting 2 feats for 15th, 16th would really appreciate the latter.

Superior Two-Handed fighting will give you an additional glancing blow giving you a total of two glancing attacks on the 5th attack.

Thanks for asking!

Codog

[Gratch]

Superior Two-Handed fighting will give you an additional glancing blow giving you a total of two glancing attacks on the 5th attack.

Thanks for asking!

Codog

Pure Excellence.

[lethal413]

so what would be an ideal ranger/caster split for an arcane archer?

[moorewr]

PS. Where do I officially join the Eladrin fan club?

Just put him in your signature.

[Codog]

codog or eldarin,,,,what if any of these mod 6 implementations actually affect Repeater builds... I know you confirmed rapid reload weeks ago....but so much says ranged combat just wondering if the ranger enhancements would stack and benifit rangers with Repeater builds

The standing attack bonus progression for ranged combat applies to all ranged weapons including the repeating crossbow.

Regards,

Codog

[Mad_Bombardier]

Superior Two-Handed fighting will give you an additional glancing blow giving you a total of two glancing attacks on the 5th attack.

Thanks for asking!

Whoa, that's crazy! Sure, it matches Superior TWF granting 2 extra hooks. But, sucks for any melee focused 'pure' Bard, Cleric, or Rogue who can never take the feat.

[MysticTheurge]

Whoa, that's crazy! Sure, it matches Superior TWF granting 2 extra hooks. But, sucks for any melee focused Bard, Cleric, or Rogue who can never take the feat.

Til Epic Levels or if they take an even fighter level (or their first) at 20th.

[Invalid_86]

An excellently delivered point related to one of our major concerns, the fate of the mid-BAB character in endgame. We'll have to discuss the matter a bit more internally before offering a resolution.

Just have BAB decrease with additional swings like in PnP. Put mutiple attacks on a timer so you can't just take the full BaB first attack over in over- automatically have it go to 2nd attack within X time and 3rd attack within X+Y time. That would solve alot of the problems we are having, and make armor a heck of alot more useful.

Please?

[Aesop]

Just have BAB decrease with additional swings like in PnP. Put mutiple attacks on a timer so you can't just take the full BaB first attack over in over- automatically have it go to 2nd attack within X time and 3rd attack within X+Y time. That would solve alot of the problems we are having, and make armor a heck of alot more useful.

Please?

They've stated that the reason they won't do this is to give incentive to standing tanks... ie the wall that just sits there and soaks up getting hit. Otherwise people will just run in circles around the mobs swinging away.

Aesop

[HumanJHawkins]

Just have BAB decrease with additional swings like in PnP. Put mutiple attacks on a timer so you can't just take the full BaB first attack over in over- automatically have it go to 2nd attack within X time and 3rd attack within X+Y time. That would solve alot of the problems we are having, and make armor a heck of alot more useful.

I'm not sure I get what you are saying, but if I have even the slightest grasp of it, NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

The extra attacks from high BAB are not some kind of thing you turn on. They are inherent to what a Fighter is. Here is how the game melee should work for different classes at high levels:

• Fighter: Lots of attacks, and most of them hit for a huge amount of damage each.
• Rogue: Few attacks, many of which hit. However, damage is only huge when backstabbing, etc.
• Cleric: Few attacks which sometimes hit for relatively low damage unless using clerical buffs... The cleric should be using Slay Living and/or healing, etc.
• Arcane Casters: One attack, which almost always misses and does almost no damage when it hits. This is the price of having PK, FoD, and WoF.
• Bard: Few hits, which sometimes hit for OK damage. The bard should be using his spells and songs to soften the enemy up so that this is all that is needed.

So, in short, Fighters are melee engines... In pure melee non-crowd-controlled sword vs. armor combat they should be attacking, hitting, AND rolling damage vastly in excess of all other classes. All other classes have other ways that they are vastly superior to fighters, so this is only fair. If anyone thinks this is not, just go count the kills of various classes in PVP... You will see that however one-sided this pure melee skill is in favor of fighters, it is easily counterbalanced by the other abilities of other classes. No fighter nerfing needed!

[iamsamoth0]

Are the creatures able to progress along this same path? Or do they have something similar already? I rue the day I am being pegged by the skelie archers that are always perched up on some cliff, it's already feels like they are using sledgehammers for ammo.

Still though, a valid point was made above, melee types should be dropping bombs at some point to make up for lack of decent range, or crowd-control methods.

[gpk]

Well glad to see a player discussion had a positive outcome for the game!

Eladrin | Codog, just to clarify, the swing rate/attack speed is going to be faster for BAB 15 right? It's not just another attack at +10 at the same overral speed?

BAB 15 is a big deal to the primary melee classes and we've been anticipating this next attack at level 15 for a while, we just felt that +15 would unbalance things now and in the future and that more melee power should come in the form of alacrity.

[Invalid_86]

They've stated that the reason they won't do this is to give incentive to standing tanks... ie the wall that just sits there and soaks up getting hit. Otherwise people will just run in circles around the mobs swinging away.

Aesop

Thus the timer. Say 1 "round" is 2 seconds in DDO. Set the timer so that your first attack in a round is always at your full bonus. If you take a second attack in that time it's at -5, a third -10. So in 2 seconds you could take three attacks, or run in circles always trying to have a max to hit bonus by swinging once in a while effectively getting one attack every 2 seconds. There's really no reason why it couldn't be done- and it would solve alot of problems.

[mgoldb2]

Thus the timer. Say 1 "round" is 2 seconds in DDO. Set the timer so that your first attack in a round is always at your full bonus. If you take a second attack in that time it's at -5, a third -10. So in 2 seconds you could take three attacks, or run in circles always trying to have a max to hit bonus by swinging once in a while effectively getting one attack every 2 seconds. There's really no reason why it couldn't be done- and it would solve alot of problems.

I don’t see how that encourages people to stand still. What you saying is I can stand still and take neg to my attack or I can move and take the exact same neg to my attack but on top of that if it takes long enough I get my full attacks back. How would that fix anything?

[Invalid_86]

I don’t see how that encourages people to stand still. What you saying is I can stand still and take neg to my attack or I can move and take the exact same neg to my attack but on top of that if it takes long enough I get my full attacks back. How would that fix anything?

The idea is within that timed window the second attack you take is always at -5, the third will always be at -10. If you move it stays the same. If you stay still it stays the same. You can either wait between swings and always have the max BAB, missing additional attacks, or just swing away. It prevents the whole move and spam first attack thing.

[mgoldb2]

The idea is within that timed window the second attack you take is always at -5, the third will always be at -10. If you move it stays the same. If you stay still it stays the same. You can either wait between swings and always have the max BAB, missing additional attacks, or just swing away. It prevents the whole move and spam first attack thing.

I understand that part but it dont address Aesop's post about just running around in a circle. Who cares if I get a few less attacks in if I can avoid taking damage. I just keep swinging away with your idear but I see no reason for me to stand still.

[ahpook]

Codog is totally wrong!!! What a loser!

After much discussion, this has been corrected to:

BAB 15-20 the bonuses will be +0,+0,+5,+10,+10

While this is certainly better than ending up at +15, I wish you would consider dropping the bonuses altogether and use attack speed as the differentiator. So many of the problems raised in this thread simply vanish if you are not dealing with an incresing bonus to hit and 10 pts is a large chunk of a d20. I understand that it is not reasonable for mod 6 but keep it in mind for the future.

Thanks.

[Serpent]

Codog is totally wrong!!! What a loser!

After much discussion, this has been corrected to:

BAB 15-20 the bonuses will be +0,+0,+5,+10,+10

Because 2H weapons still have a slightly slower animation on the 5th attack, we've added another glancing attack onto that attack to help compensate. We managed to fix the animations for the 5th attack on one handed, one handed with shield, and dual wield attack animations. This change will become affective in Module 6.

Thanks for your feedback on this topic. This topic will continue to be an ongoing discussion for the character team. "To hit inflation" is certainly an area that we can improve upon in future releases. We would make further changes to this progression at this time, but that would require a huge retest of most of our content and rebalancing of almost all of our monsters. We're running too tight on time for our module 6 release to make changes that dramatic.

Best regards,

Codog

PS. Where do I officially join the Eladrin fan club?

Thank You. And a slightly faster swing would be great if possible.