Show so love for the 28s.

[Impaqt]

There's the problem... And this is why these kind of arguments bother me. It doesn't matter why someone wants this. It only matters that someone wants this. You are out of line when you start trying to impose your opinions about what is fun or valuable on other people.

And your Not Out of line when you tell me your Opinion is better than mine?

If theres a problem out there its that too many people feel anyone has a right to their own opinion as long as its the same as theirs.

[wundernewb]

I still play the first toon I rolled on the first day and have made him the best possible. He is a blast to play but with all the 32 point builds the 28s are gimped. Now I am a causal player and don’t have time to just re-roll all my favorite toons and re-outfit them. Couldn't we have a faction reward the would give the 28s the four extra stat points they are lacking?

I was under the impression that 1750 favor effectively did that. Would that not be a faction reward?

I realise that casual players may take eons to get this 1750 favor, but if you are a casual player, then why care about a few extra points? I am a casual player (6 months, highest toon favor 926) and I know I don't.

[Girevik]

Let 28pt characters get TWO +2 Favor Tomes when they hit 1750.....

You know, that really is a pretty good idea.

32's will always be better than 28's because 32's can eventually add the same tomes on top of their superior starting stats for superior final stats. But, if you do the "Power" versus "Casual" split along the lines of the "Powers" will get their 32's and then their piles of loot tomes, while the "Casuals" just don't play that much, so the Favor tomes are likely to be the only tomes they see, then giving them an additional one does essentially fast-forward them to where they would be with a 32- and one-tome.

[Nataichal]

The additional points added by a 32 point build do not equate to higher end points like tomes would Remember, after I think 14, each stat costs 2+ to advance 1.

[Aspenor]

The additional points added by a 32 point build do not equate to higher end points like tomes would Remember, after I think 14, each stat costs 2+ to advance 1.

Quite true. The only way I could justify handing out a pair of +2 tomes to a 28 pt build would be if the stats on the tomes were limited to the base stats that particular character has below 14, or 13 and below. Otherwise, this would imbalance in favor of 28 pt builds over 32 point builds.

[PurdueDave]

Let 28pt characters get TWO +2 Favor Tomes when they hit 1750..... but to add another favor reward thats specifically geared twoards 28pt characters is extremely short sighted.

That's a great idea.

[PurdueDave]

The additional points added by a 32 point build do not equate to higher end points like tomes would Remember, after I think 14, each stat costs 2+ to advance 1.

Additional +2 tomes from 1750 favor provide no advantage to 28 pt characters because it is not the only source of +2 tomes. There is no build point equivalent. Nothing about being a 32 pt character precludes it from having as many +2 tomes as the 28 pt. It's a material reward and nothing more.

[Impaqt]

Quite true. The only way I could justify handing out a pair of +2 tomes to a 28 pt build would be if the stats on the tomes were limited to the base stats that particular character has below 14, or 13 and below. Otherwise, this would imbalance in favor of 28 pt builds over 32 point builds.

ACtually, No, It wouldnt...... Tomes dont stack.... AS the game Progresses, We'lls tart seeing +2 Tomes Drop as often as +1's do now... and +3, +4, and +5 tomes are In PnP as well.

By Offereing 2 +2 Tomes to the 28 Pt character, you help them Catch up to 32 Point toons a bit, but its not overpowering since the +2's will eventualy be overwritten with better tomes.

It would mean a LOT to a casual gamer.... It really woudlnt effect the power gamer at all since They either rerolled ther 28pointers or have +2 or higher tomes on their stats already.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I am not saying the 28s can't make elite toons but with the same build and gear the 28 will always be lacking as compaired to a 32. Four points can go a long way if used wisely and combined with a few tomes.

I agree. My 28pt toons are not bad, but they would certainly be better if I had those extra pts.

Warforged, Pallies, and bards are real hard to make with a 28pt toon.
And Rogues could be added to that as well.

The other classes are easy to make good ones with only 28pts.....although clerics could be a lot better too....with just a few more points.

Drow is an easy race to unlock and they make good toons in almost every class. If 32pt is not an option I usually make a drow if I can.

I would like to see more access to raising some of our stats in this game......maybe something other than tomes.....rewards for favor or completion of something special.

[Dwolf]

How about we throw the 28 point builds a bone another way.

Since technically your 28 pointers are your "founders" - even if only in the sense that they are the foundation of each player's entry into stormreach - they continue to gather favour at the rate the system is set now -

- while drow and 32 point builds get a little bit less favor per quest.

This way while sure, 32 point builds will always be a little bit better in a fight, its your 28 pointers that will unlock new rewards for you first - making them still valuable in terms of the slots they take up.


If I were a new player starting this game today the way things stand now, i wouldn't have a 28 point build at all.

I'd start a character, run it up to 400 favor - which takes all of an afternoon of casual gaming.

Then I'd unlock and roll a drow - which is already a "poor man's 32 point build" - and use that to play to 1750. After that all my other characters would be 32 pointers. There'd be no purpose in even keeping the 28 point build - and even granting it a few post-dated build points - what's the point? It defeats the whole purpose or getting favour for the better builds in the first place.

Now on the other hand if the original 28 point non-drow characters are the only ones that get full favor on every quest - then that's an incentive to keep them around - making them the patri (or matri)archs of stormreach.

By the way before making this post, I was reading all those other posts on character preparedness - and stocked up on resistance and protection from fire potions - just in case.

[Krell]

I agree its not a huge deal but an extra 4 stat points could be helpful. It could mean a couple extra DV's for a Cleric with more Charisma or an extra 2 health per level if added to Constitution. If it was added maybe it could appear in the level up screen where you could add 4 points to stats but you would need to factor in point costs once a stat begins to cost 2-4 build points per stat point.

[Twerpp]

Shucks.... Ya found me out.... I hate casual Gamers..... There its official....

Why in the world would a Casual game Care if they get one additional Skill Point for levels 15-20? Or one exra point of AC from their Dex bonus? Is the game not fun for them without it?

Let 28pt characters get TWO +2 Favor Tomes when they hit 1750..... but to add another favor reward thats specifically geared twoards 28pt characters is extremely short sighted.

So you dont want 4 more points on your capped toon?

Casual Gamer, Elitist or not, nobody would turn that down my friend.

[Furgulder]

player skill > character stats

[HumanJHawkins]

And your Not Out of line when you tell me your Opinion is better than mine?

You were not stating an opinion. You were arguing to block someone else's request based on your opinion even though the change would not hurt you.

I have nothing against anyone stating their opinion. And I have nothing against anyone arguing to have (or not have) some feature change if they think it would benefit (or not benefit) them.

The thing that bugs me is when you essentially say that the OP and many like him are wrong in their belief that 32 point builds add value over 28 point builds, and therefore, even though it doesn't affect your toons, they shouldn't get what they are asking for.

But I am also all for free speech... If I haven't convinced you of this, you should of course keep arguing for what you want. And I will keep trying to point out when your arguments are off-base,

[Hence]

If I had 4 extra points to spend on my capped Fighter, I would put them into INT so I could take Combat Expertise and Whirlwind...

There is no way I could justify re-rolling a new character, my 28 point guy has ate a +3 str tome, a +2 con tome, a +1 dex tome. So I would actually loose some points if I re-rolled.

I would love to be able to add 4 points into my INT score. What a screwed up favor reward. Now that you have completed the majority of quests in this game, please start over and do them again! Yeah right.

[Gornin]

I would love the 4 points on both my 28 pt toons. I created my cleric first and built him to PnP standards not realizing the mechanics on this game were much different. I would have maxed his WIS and put more points in CHA. He would then have more SP, do more DV and have a better chance at turning the pimped undead. I built my wizard not too long afterward not knowing about the 32 builds, and didn't max her INT thinking an end 20 INT would be fine, and put more points in DEX, being elven, so she could range effectively. I would love the 4 extra points. Maybe Fred could do it with a special token given to all 28 pt toons and it would take you back to your starting stats and let you place them.

But if they don't ever do this, I'll won't even worry about it. But it would be cool to show some love to the "founding" toons.

[Ziggy]

I still play the first toon I rolled on the first day and have made him the best possible. He is a blast to play but with all the 32 point builds the 28s are gimped. Now I am a causal player and don’t have time to just re-roll all my favorite toons and re-outfit them. Couldn't we have a faction reward the would give the 28s the four extra stat points they are lacking?

Im running a 28 point WF 9 barb/4 fighter/1 wizard. Anyone playing with him will not notice that he is a 28 point build.

[Cashiry]

Personaly, I would love the extra +4 on my 28 pt Pally/fighter, it would allow me to get my INT up to 13, so I could take combat expertise.... I would go from a buffed 58ac to a 63ac. Not that the extra ac is needed, but would be welcomed.

[wundernewb]

If I had 4 extra points to spend on my capped Fighter, I would put them into INT so I could take Combat Expertise and Whirlwind...

Just curious, which 2 feats would you give up to get those? (assuming you already have Mobility, which is needed for SA and WW)

[Emili]

Just curious, which 2 feats would you give up to get those? (assuming you already have Mobility, which is needed for SA and WW)

I'm assuming he means taking Whirlwind down the line and he approaches level 20 or possibly respecing his feats now... as it stands he can never take the feat now yet any 32 pointer can be built with the same starting stats he had an the 13 in int. That is his point.

I'll be blunt... you can argue player skill vs build, well a skilled player with a better build is an even better player? Sure he is he's more bang in his build. He had more to work with. If 4 build stat points are viewd as unimportant to you then I suggest next time you see a +2 con tome (and never used one on that toon) in a warded chest you pass on rolling for it - you don't need that loot! It is the same difference. According to you it would not make your character any better. If you really ever thought about it 4 build points at start are really better then someone handing you two +2 tomes for secondary stats at level one... because you can always get two of the same +2 tomes again.

To be truthful 4 points at build time does go a lot farther then some people let on. look at it this way if they went in int you'd have 24 more skill points now wouldn't you? Any stat starved toon who is thin like a pally, bard or rogue it makes a huge difference. Any fighter with CE it makes a huge difference. Told you in a post earlier I rerolled my main as a 32 pointer... I threw away 3 tomes and all the items bound on her. The difference now is she has higher str, higher con higher wis and still has CE ... she has as much str as the highest 28 point dps fighter and an ac which rivals any intimidating tank. Plus can swing many feat chains in the fighter feat lists should I ever feel like respecing her she has more options ... the toon is a lot more flexible to change with the system.