Show so love for the 28s.

[Impaqt]

It's true we get some love at 1750 but so do the 32s. You may be able to get more stat points for awhile but the 28s when compared on an equal basis will always be less then their 32 point counter parts.

If you Honestly beleive that then thats your own Issue.

What can you do with 4 Build Points?

Can you add a FUll DC to your spells?

Not Likely unless your planning on building a Gimped 28 Point Caster. Going from 16-18 or 18-20 coast 6 Points.

Can you Add 14 Hit Points?
Maybe.... If 14 Hit Points Makes or Breaks your Character then Thats an Issue initself though.

Can you Carry More Stuff?
YES! Well.. Unless you started withan 18 STR already...

Can you get more Skill Points?
If your not a Skill Based class.. THen Yes.. But then again.... If y our not a Skill Based class, Why would you need more?

Can Increase your Will Save?
Yes! If your Wisdom was a dump stat. Absolutly.

Can you Increase your Reflex Save/AC
Yes, I fyou didnt care about it inthe first place.

Can you Gain UMD?
Again, Yes... If you didnt Put a lot into CHR originally....


What it comes down to is you canmake a decent raise to a ability that simply wasnt important to you at creation. ANd makes no Practical gain at Level cap. They are Bonus's that if you can make it to l14 without, theres no way they are "Needed"

If your Character is Gimped.. It has absolutly NOTHING to do with it being a 28, 32 or 56 point build.

[Strakeln]

I don't think it matters that much really (not that I would turn it down). The 28s are hardly gimped. If you are the min/max type all it would get you was 1 more point on your top stat anyway.

If you were applying this to a secondary stat it would make more difference, but at most it would give you a +2 bonus to something that was minor in your build. (ie, if you had a low wis because you used it as dump stat you might gain +2 to will save).

It's nice, its hardly huge and gimping not to have them brought up to 32 pt.

I agreee that 28 pointers are not gimped, one of my mains is 28 point and he is a serious force to be reckoned with. However, there is a lot more to be gained from 4 points than you let on. One example: 4 extra stat points into int would allow my barbarian to have combat expertise, and also would have given him a ton more skill points. Those skill points would have allowed me to invest in the tumble skill, which in turn would have allowed me to make use of the mobility feat (which I already have, pre-req for spring attack). So those four stat points just translated into 9 AC, which would bring my barbarian up to a self-buffed AC of 53 (while tumbling). *Hardly* insignificant.

Not that my barbarian would want combat expertise, but I think you get my point...

[xmonk06]

OK, you’re all right. The 28s are not gimped. That was to strong of a word but they do have a disadvantage and it might be fun to have a favor goal that would over come this disadvantage.

[Impaqt]

OK, you’re all right. The 28s are not gimped. That was to strong of a word but they do have a disadvantage and it might be fun to have a favor goal that would over come this disadvantage.

I cna think of a LOT of favor golas other than something like this.
2500 Favor and I get to carry 100 or so more lbs onmy Cleric! Whoopdi-do.....

Or maybe I can raise my AC from 36 to 37....... Oh wait.. No I cant cause my Dragonscale armor is only 1Dex Bonus....

14 Hit Points? Nope.. at a +1 Tome already...

Skill Points! Um.. 1 exra Skill Point for levels 15-20 isnt going to do me any good...

1 More DV! There we go... 4000 Hours of Play time for +1 DV...... Sign me up.

[llevenbaxx]

I think its pretty well established the extra build points dont add up to a hill of beans except in most peoples heads. Player skill is far greater a factor, I still would never delete my original favor character.

PS
Have run with Aspenors sorc on Ghallanda and could swear he was at least a 29pt build character.

[Aspenor]

I think its pretty well established the extra build points dont add up to a hill of beans except in most peoples heads. Player skill is far greater a factor, I still would never delete my original favor character.

PS
Have run with Aspenors sorc on Ghallanda and could swear he was at least a 29pt build character.

LoL 29, nice.

I did get this comment:
<Ghallandan> says: "*** you're only level 10??? ****"

[blakbyrd]

OK, you’re all right. The 28s are not gimped. That was to strong of a word but they do have a disadvantage and it might be fun to have a favor goal that would over come this disadvantage.

Well, if Turbine wants to institue something like this, I would take advantage of it, but I don't need it, and probably would take my time in accomplishing it, as I have other things to do on other characters that to me are much more advantageous to do.

[Cyr]

Thought this should have been implimented as part of 1750 favor originally...no reason not to from a balance standpoint just from a dev time standpoint...they could really use some good vibes so what could it hurt?

[blakbyrd]

Thought this should have been implimented as part of 1750 favor originally...no reason not to from a balance standpoint just from a dev time standpoint...they could really use some good vibes so what could it hurt?

I agree, although I guess in terms of looking at the current mechanic we have, there could be a good reason (from Turbine's end) to leave it as it is now.

When the 1750 first came about it created 2 main situations (both of which were time sinks that all MMOs need and is something DDO lacks alot of).

1. It made people want to go do quests they otherwise probably would not have cared to do or repeat.

2. It made people want to create new characters upon achieving 1750 favor.

Both of which provided necessary time sinks, and for that reason they may like how it works, as both items above cause people to play longer with specific goals over a longer period of time.

Granted the idea suggested in this thread would most likely introduce another form of time sink, which could be good. Too many time sinks can be bad though, and linking too many together can also be bad more quickly. Maybe they havent really given the idea any thought or maybe the are afraid of intentionally tying together too many time sinks...who knows.

[muffinlad]

Who cares? Is it really necessary to be the "most mathematically uber?"

QFT.

[HumanJHawkins]

Dude... All you people dissing the OP must be good Tank builds... In other words, dumb as a stump.

OP never said 28 pts. suck.
32 pt. builds also get a +2 tome at 1750 favor, so the tome is NOT equivalent.
28 pt. builds are not "gimped", but they are also not ideal. If you like to get your toons as close to ideal as possible but want to argue against this guy who is seeking the same thing, then you are being a jerk.

OP is not asking for anything that would give him any advantage whatsoever over anyone else. He's just saying that he likes his original toon and wants it to have the same capabilities as most of us have with our rerolls.

It seems to me that if we couldn't have this and 32 point rerolls (though we can and should), it would be more fair to ONLY give the extra 4 points to toons that make 1750... I mean, if you did such a good job on your original roll that you dont want to reroll and change a bunch of stuff, then you deserve the points for doing such a good job in your early toon building.

OP's suggestion is a good idea.

[HumanJHawkins]

If you Honestly beleive that then thats your own Issue.

What can you do with 4 Build Points?

Um... My Sorc could have a 12 Str instead of an 8, and therefore be able to carry loot out of a long run...

My Tank could have 2 higher Will save... I.e. 10% less getting held when the good high end buffs are not available.

We are not talking about the difference between gimped and uber here... Just some nice benefits that there is no reason to deny to a 1750 favor original toon. It's the point more than anything.

I mean, you probably wouldn't lose sleep ove $1.00 right? But if the local grocery store started giving $1.00 off the price of groceries to everyone except, for example, the first-born daughter from each family in the community, you might scratch your head a bit. And if you happened to be a first-born duaghter, you might even get angry, right?

Why is it that whenever someone asks for something in the forums, all sorts of people come out of the woodwork to argue against it if they would not directly benefit from the suggestion?

[Perceval418]

I still play the first toon I rolled on the first day and have made him the best possible. He is a blast to play but with all the 32 point builds the 28s are gimped. Now I am a causal player and don’t have time to just re-roll all my favorite toons and re-outfit them. Couldn't we have a faction reward the would give the 28s the four extra stat points they are lacking?

Plus keep in mind those 4 extra points have limitations. They shine most in multiclass builds where your already spreading your stats around. In Min/Max builds they arnt as noticable cause your main stats are already maxed, and the extra 4 points doesnt allow you to push stats beyond thier max (no 20 Charisma for Human Sorcerers, for example).

So the difference between your (lets say) Human fighter and a 32 point Human fighter is at best a +2 Mod to DEX, WIS or INT (12 Points total) or spread around for a +1 in two of those. Or, maybe, 3 of those points go into an 1 extra point of CON and 1 goes into raising your Wisdom to 9.

[TossMe_the_Flying_D]

I mean, you probably wouldn't lose sleep ove $1.00 right? But if the local grocery store started giving $1.00 off the price of groceries to everyone except, for example, the first....

Your post just made me think that a discount on Auction House fees would be a great favor reward. I nearly cried the first time I sold a tome and realized how much the AH cut "cost" me.

[Twerpp]

If you Honestly beleive that then thats your own Issue.

What can you do with 4 Build Points?

Can you add a FUll DC to your spells?

Not Likely unless your planning on building a Gimped 28 Point Caster. Going from 16-18 or 18-20 coast 6 Points.

Can you Add 14 Hit Points?
Maybe.... If 14 Hit Points Makes or Breaks your Character then Thats an Issue initself though.

Can you Carry More Stuff?
YES! Well.. Unless you started withan 18 STR already...

Can you get more Skill Points?
If your not a Skill Based class.. THen Yes.. But then again.... If y our not a Skill Based class, Why would you need more?

Can Increase your Will Save?
Yes! If your Wisdom was a dump stat. Absolutly.

Can you Increase your Reflex Save/AC
Yes, I fyou didnt care about it inthe first place.

Can you Gain UMD?
Again, Yes... If you didnt Put a lot into CHR originally....


What it comes down to is you canmake a decent raise to a ability that simply wasnt important to you at creation. ANd makes no Practical gain at Level cap. They are Bonus's that if you can make it to l14 without, theres no way they are "Needed"

If your Character is Gimped.. It has absolutly NOTHING to do with it being a 28, 32 or 56 point build.

4 points can be the difference between a well rounded character and one who simply isnt. It can mean being able to afford enough dex for the 2 weapon fighting chain without dropping str, it can mean being able to afford the int for CE, +5 AC isnt exactly chump change to a tank. It could mean starting with your main stat maxed AND STILL having a well balanced character, where 28 pt rolls usually have to start at 1-2 below max to achieve some balance.

I am all for this idea. 1750 is a lot of time for a casual gamer, but in that case you negate the original reward which is 32 pt build and 2pt Tome. So I think you should have to give credit where its due and hit 2250 or so.

Is there anyone here with 32 point builds who WOULDNT want to add 4 points to your original 28 pointer? Or do you simply want to deny casual gamers who only have time to play one toon and run favor once so you can have a leg up on them?

[Rameses]

4 points can be the difference between a well rounded character and one who simply isnt.

I wont tell anyone if you promise not to tell anyone.
My Penitent Rogue Build is a 28pt build and arguably one of the most well rounded characters running on Argonnessen.

Level 14 Chaotic Good Halfling Male
(13 Rogue \ 1 Cleric)

Hit Points: 190
Spell Points: 130
BAB: 9\9\14
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 29
Will: 17

AC 40 (standing unbuffed)

Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 14)

Strength: 12 (6 base +1 tome +5 Str item)
Dexterity: 32 (16 base +3 level +2 Racial +3 Class +2 Raid Tome +6 item)
Constitution: 15 (8 base +2 Favor Tome, +5 Item) (tired of sending a +6 item back and forth on characters )
Intelligence : 24 (18 base +1 tome, +5 item)
Wisdom: 14 (8 base +1 Tome, +5 item)
Charisma: 22 (15 base +1 tome +6 item)

I believe that it's very easy to get caught in a cycle of thinking that you MUST be 32pts to be even able to complete END GAME content. Which is utterly false. I would never consider re-rolling my 28pt Character (raid loot not even being a factor as it's way too easy to come by.)

I am, Rameses!

[Impaqt]

Um... My Sorc could have a 12 Str instead of an 8, and therefore be able to carry loot out of a long run...

My Tank could have 2 higher Will save... I.e. 10% less getting held when the good high end buffs are not available.

We are not talking about the difference between gimped and uber here... Just some nice benefits that there is no reason to deny to a 1750 favor original toon. It's the point more than anything.

I mean, you probably wouldn't lose sleep ove $1.00 right? But if the local grocery store started giving $1.00 off the price of groceries to everyone except, for example, the first-born daughter from each family in the community, you might scratch your head a bit. And if you happened to be a first-born duaghter, you might even get angry, right?

Why is it that whenever someone asks for something in the forums, all sorts of people come out of the woodwork to argue against it if they would not directly benefit from the suggestion?

I'm not against our original 28pt Toons getting a couple extra Stat points to play with.... I AM against it being an advanced favor reward.... First, and foremost, why would a 28pt character get a different 2500Favor Reward than a 32 Point?

as for the Crawling out of the woodwork comment... Um... If you havent seen me around the forums providing my help and opinion on a regular basis I dont know what to say.....

as for your analogy.... No, I wouldnt think twice about a dollar.... and your comparing something that would never happen inthe real world vs. SOmething in a Video Game.......

[Impaqt]

4 points can be the difference between a well rounded character and one who simply isnt. It can mean being able to afford enough dex for the 2 weapon fighting chain without dropping str, it can mean being able to afford the int for CE, +5 AC isnt exactly chump change to a tank. It could mean starting with your main stat maxed AND STILL having a well balanced character, where 28 pt rolls usually have to start at 1-2 below max to achieve some balance.

I am all for this idea. 1750 is a lot of time for a casual gamer, but in that case you negate the original reward which is 32 pt build and 2pt Tome. So I think you should have to give credit where its due and hit 2250 or so.

Is there anyone here with 32 point builds who WOULDNT want to add 4 points to your original 28 pointer? Or do you simply want to deny casual gamers who only have time to play one toon and run favor once so you can have a leg up on them?

Shucks.... Ya found me out.... I hate casual Gamers..... There its official....

Why in the world would a Casual game Care if they get one additional Skill Point for levels 15-20? Or one exra point of AC from their Dex bonus? Is the game not fun for them without it?

Let 28pt characters get TWO +2 Favor Tomes when they hit 1750..... but to add another favor reward thats specifically geared twoards 28pt characters is extremely short sighted.

[HumanJHawkins]

Why in the world would a Casual game Care if they get one additional Skill Point for levels 15-20?

There's the problem... And this is why these kind of arguments bother me. It doesn't matter why someone wants this. It only matters that someone wants this. You are out of line when you start trying to impose your opinions about what is fun or valuable on other people.

[GeneralDiomedes]

32 point builds are slightly better, and guess what .. that's the WHOLE POINT - so you will be motivated enough to reroll and spend more time playing the game. Turbine knows the mind of a gaming addict and judging from the responses here they are right on the money. You desparately WANT a 32 point character and are making calculations in your heads as this very moment to see if the return is worth the effort.

What's my personal experience with the disparity? My 28 point main has enough bound loot and tomes that it would take me so long to get a 32 point up to his level that for me it's not worth it to delete him. He does just fine. All my new characters are of course 32 point, but unless it's a specialist build that has multiple stat requirements, it's not that big of a difference in the end. Drow fit many niche builds better than a 32 point non-Drow anyhow.