Constitution bonuses and hitpoints

[Blagrak]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, but I thought I'd bring it up as it happened to me for the first time and I'd never heard of it happening before.

I was doing the Reavers bane with my wizard and had revived to Gianthold after a party wipe on the white dragon. I thought I'd sell to make room for more loot, so I take off my +6 CON belt and switch to my Coin belt. I instantly die. After scratching my head for a while I realized that the reduction of 6 CON had dropped my hit points by 46. Having revived with only 10 hps, that left me about 36 short.

I think that constitution increases should only raise the total amount of hps you can have, and not the amount that you do have. Maybe if you have full hps and get a CON bonus they might go up to max, but it sure shouldn't decrease the hit points you already have. It seems like the game treats those extra hit points like a barbarian's rage hit points, or aid, and I just don't see a constitution bonus acting like that.

I know that INT or CHA increases/decreases for a casters don’t affect their mps unless they are at full, so why is con affecting hit points like that?

ps I had the same thing happen later at the House J apothecary. Fortunately I only went to -8 hps and just lay prone on the counter for a while.

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

Con increases by +bonus x Levels. so 3 x 12 is 36 HP...


As for the whole "should be max hps thing" no... this is working how it works in P&P, why do you think barbs are careful when they rage? if they are low HP when it cuts off, they die. It shyouldnt be changed.

[Olgren]

I know that sometimes you are in a hurry to do the mundane task such as selling to make room. However this problem could be handled in another fashion that does not necessitate reprogamming for turbine. Just think before you act. I know I used to have the same problem with madstone rage ending just after I released. I got into the habit of not releasing until my madstone rage ended and guess what, no more deaths. 8)

[Dane_McArdy]

Here is the general rules on extra hitpoints.

If you gain extra hitpoints from a raise in constitution, when you lose that constitution bonus, you lose the according amount of hitpoints, which means if you drop below zero...you are dead.

If you gain hitpoints from a spell like Aid, and you take damage, those temporary hitpoints go first, and the spell ends, but you don't drop in hitpoints. If you still have temporary hitpoints when the spell ends, they go away.

[llevenbaxx]

Con increases by +bonus x Levels. so 3 x 12 is 36 HP...


As for the whole "should be max hps thing" no... this is working how it works in P&P, why do you think barbs are careful when they rage? if they are low HP when it cuts off, they die. It shyouldnt be changed.

QFT.

Have done the same thing as the OP a time or two also.

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

QFT.

Have done the same thing as the OP a time or two also.

try dying 7 times cause just before your rage goes off you get hit for just enough damage to die seconds later when your rage comes off? happened to me several times, i go to down a potion and die before i drink it.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Yup, this is working as it should. Next time take more care and heal up before removing a con item

[Rowanheal]

LOLOLOLOLOL

We wiped on a guild reaver the other night and I ported over to house J to buy some potions for our group. Yup, took off my plus 4 ( I know I am un uber) con belt for my coin belt...

My whole group is panicked thinking I went back in and restarted ROFL... nope, just me shocking the vendors in house J by dying before their feet when I saw their prices

ROFL... I don't mind it the way it is... I love it when my hubby unrages and dies... it's super funny...

See ya in Stormreach,

-R

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

ROFL... I don't mind it the way it is... I love it when my hubby unrages and dies... it's super funny...

See ya in Stormreach,

-R

heh, he got so angry his blood preasure sckyrocketed and he had a ehart attack!

[Blagrak]

Well I guess that's the general rule, but I still think there's a difference between taking off a CON belt and losing hit points and a barbarian coming off of rage and being exhausted to death.

Then again I guess as a measure of how much damage you can take a reduction in CON could cause you not ot be able to support the wounds you have. I just thought it was a cheesey way to die. Upside was that I was in a tavern the first time so no loss of xp.

[DSL]

[...] nope, just me shocking the vendors in house J by dying before their feet when I saw their prices

I love this, and I see a whole line of jokes around the sorts of negotiation conversations that might take place...

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Well I guess that's the general rule, but I still think there's a difference between taking off a CON belt and losing hit points and a barbarian coming off of rage and being exhausted to death.

Then again I guess as a measure of how much damage you can take a reduction in CON could cause you not ot be able to support the wounds you have. I just thought it was a cheesey way to die. Upside was that I was in a tavern the first time so no loss of xp.

When a Barb dies it is also due to the loss of magically bestowed CON so the situation is an exact match.... Ending a Bear's Endurance spell also has the same effect.

[DSL]

When a Barb dies it is also due to the loss of magically bestowed CON so the situation is an exact match.... Ending a Bear's Endurance spell also has the same effect.

It's not really supposed to be magical, barbarian rage is more like an adrenaline surge, a sort of primal fury wherein they feel no pain. When the adrenaline wears off, they just "succumb" to their wounds which, if severe enough, can cause them to drop dead. In my experience in PnP games, at high levels rage is often more of a death sentence than an advantage, as dropping into the negatives ensures death if no healing is quickly forthcoming.

[vyvy3369]

I've always looked at this type of situation as you've taken X amount of damage, not you have Y amount of HPs left. When you remove a con item or otherwise lose a buff, you're still down X HPs, even though your HP pool is smaller suddenly. Temporary HPs are nice in that respect.

The one that really gets me is that false life items from what I remember don't increase your current & max HPs, which it seems like they should...you don't suddenly have 30 damage after equipping a ring that goes away if you take it off.

[nibel]

Well I guess that's the general rule, but I still think there's a difference between taking off a CON belt and losing hit points and a barbarian coming off of rage and being exhausted to death.

Then again I guess as a measure of how much damage you can take a reduction in CON could cause you not ot be able to support the wounds you have. I just thought it was a cheesey way to die. Upside was that I was in a tavern the first time so no loss of xp.

I really miss the refferemces, but i remember an old history about a guy who is very, very, very hurt and still walking because of a talisman he had that improve his toughness. Wait, this was my last Fighter on my PnP table.

The way to look it is this: You are hurted near to death. Or in a death state, but the magic item you hold make you stay awake and fighting. It's not different than have a magic item that allow you to lift a Elephant over your head and someone take that item out of you. The elephant will fall because you cant maintain the grasp.

[wundernewb]

I think that constitution increases should only raise the total amount of hps you can have, and not the amount that you do have. Maybe if you have full hps and get a CON bonus they might go up to max, but it sure shouldn't decrease the hit points you already have.

If it worked that way, what would stop you from gaining the extra HP, then switching out the CON belt for something else.

You add the CON, you get the extra HP. You take away the CON, you take away the HP. Anything else would throw the door open to exploitation.

[Blagrak]

If it worked that way, what would stop you from gaining the extra HP, then switching out the CON belt for something else.

You add the CON, you get the extra HP. You take away the CON, you take away the HP. Anything else would throw the door open to exploitation.

Um, the way I was describing your max hp would increase when you put the item on and would decrease when you took the item off. Taking the item on and off would just make your max amount of hitpoints number change. What exactly would you be exploiting?

At any rate I've come to agree with the way things work now. Just a matter of thinking about what you're doing in certain situations.

[Mad_Bombardier]

I've always looked at this type of situation as you've taken X amount of damage, not you have Y amount of HPs left. When you remove a con item or otherwise lose a buff, you're still down X HPs, even though your HP pool is smaller suddenly. Temporary HPs are nice in that respect.

Nice description.

The one that really gets me is that false life items from what I remember don't increase your current & max HPs, which it seems like they should...you don't suddenly have 30 damage after equipping a ring that goes away if you take it off.

I look at False Life items as capacitors. You equip them and have the potential for extra HP, but they need to be charged up for later use; rechargable HP buffers. Then if you take that amount of damage and remove the False Life item, none is lost because you've only used what you previously stored. But, if the item had HP left stored, you lose those HP.

[Mercules]

Um, the way I was describing your max hp would increase when you put the item on and would decrease when you took the item off. Taking the item on and off would just make your max amount of hitpoints number change. What exactly would you be exploiting?

At any rate I've come to agree with the way things work now. Just a matter of thinking about what you're doing in certain situations.

Level 10 Character puts on a Con +4 belt and has a Con 10. Say it's a Rogue. So he has 60 HPs and gains 20 more. He gets hit for 19 points of damage during a fight. He hot swaps out the Health Belt and goes from 61 HPs to 60. Now he re-equips the Health Belt and goes back up to 80 HPs. This is why Con bonus HPs are taken off the back end and not the front end.

[FluffyDucky]

Level 10 Character puts on a Con +4 belt and has a Con 10. Say it's a Rogue. So he has 60 HPs and gains 20 more. He gets hit for 19 points of damage during a fight. He hot swaps out the Health Belt and goes from 61 HPs to 60. Now he re-equips the Health Belt and goes back up to 80 HPs. This is why Con bonus HPs are taken off the back end and not the front end.

Level 10 caster puts on a Int/Cha/Wis item and gains 20 SP. But does he get 20 SP or only 20 'potential' SP? Con items should work with HP the same way Int/Cha/Wis items work with SP. In your example when he re-equips the Health Belt his 'potential' HP would go back to 80 but his 'actual' HP would remain at 60. No exploit.