Possible rogue based quest

[Mercules]

We're exploring some options for making trapsmiths a little more useful. We want rogues to feel wanted, afterall. I agree, traps which waste a significant amount of time or resources ultimately do a better job of exhibiting a rogue's usefulness than one which poses a minor inconvenience.


I've got plenty of nasty little traps lined up for you in Module 5. I hope you'll enjoy running into them!

THANK YOU. My favorite character to play is my Barb 1/Rogue 11. I'm going to be building a Rogue 1/Cleric X character with the new slots, and I just all together enjoy playing Roguish characters. I never want people to HAVE to invite me to a group, but giving them a small incentive and giving me some fun surprises when it comes to traps would be GREAT!

[FluffyDucky]

We're exploring some options for making trapsmiths a little more useful. We want rogues to feel wanted, afterall. I agree, traps which waste a significant amount of time or resources ultimately do a better job of exhibiting a rogue's usefulness than one which poses a minor inconvenience.

I've got plenty of nasty little traps lined up for you in Module 5. I hope you'll enjoy running into them!

While naster traps mean rogues are more in demand for those specific quests I hope you consider my suggestions for speeding up trapsmithing as a way to make rogues more usefull in ALL quests. They are minor changes that IMO would make a big diffrence.

[Hendrik]

We're exploring some options for making trapsmiths a little more useful. We want rogues to feel wanted, afterall. I agree, traps which waste a significant amount of time or resources ultimately do a better job of exhibiting a rogue's usefulness than one which poses a minor inconvenience.


I've got plenty of nasty little traps lined up for you in Module 5. I hope you'll enjoy running into them!

Count on it!



Nice to see your still alive TRD. Been awhile since we heard from ya...

[Lorien_the_First_One]

We're exploring some options for making trapsmiths a little more useful. We want rogues to feel wanted, afterall. I agree, traps which waste a significant amount of time or resources ultimately do a better job of exhibiting a rogue's usefulness than one which poses a minor inconvenience.


I've got plenty of nasty little traps lined up for you in Module 5. I hope you'll enjoy running into them!

Thanks

The ongoing joke in the DDO world of Rogues is disabling traps is what you do AFTER the party runs through and is busy killing the mobs just past the trap.

No one waits.

Traps should HURT if you try to bypass them. Oh sure, we don't want to make things impossible without a rogue (one isn't always available) but it should hurt.

And there should be some optionals that NEED a rogue. No rogue? Fine, you just lost that optional mob and the associated xp & chest.

While naster traps mean rogues are more in demand for those specific quests I hope you consider my suggestions for speeding up trapsmithing as a way to make rogues more usefull in ALL quests. They are minor changes that IMO would make a big diffrence.

Fluffy is right. If you made the search animiation faster (it is PAINFULLY slow) it would be huge. A slight increase in the disable animation also wouldn't hurt but it isn't as bad.

Also a minor little nit... for those of us that haven't been in the dungeon as a rogue 100 times we first have to do the search animation, and then we have to look for real for the stupid trap when we hear it pop. Could we please, just in the Rogue's animation, have some big bright shiney highlight/arrow/something point out the location we just spent 10 seconds searching for?

And here's one people will probably find petty but it would make the rogue more efficient... Why do I even have to click the "disable" button? Why can't I just click on the trap to use it? There is no way to use a trap except disable it after all...

[Palmetto]

We're exploring some options for making trapsmiths a little more useful. We want rogues to feel wanted, afterall. I agree, traps which waste a significant amount of time or resources ultimately do a better job of exhibiting a rogue's usefulness than one which poses a minor inconvenience.


I've got plenty of nasty little traps lined up for you in Module 5. I hope you'll enjoy running into them!

You are walking a very fine line that may result in creating quests that require certain classes to be in the party in order for the quest to be completed. I hope that you guys keep to your word by not crossing that line.

[zyp]

I've got plenty of nasty little traps lined up for you in Module 5. I hope you'll enjoy running into them!

Considering the delicious array of new traps introduced in Mod 4, I have to say I'm drooling with anticipation for the new traps in Mod 5. You're an evil, evil genius RD

[Hence]

What about other things Rogues can do? Like sneak and hide?

There should be multiple spots in quests, where a stealthy rogue can sneak past some guards to pull a lever for the rest of the party. Don't make this a necessity of the quest, just an easier way to get through the quest.

Quests like, "Offering of Blood" should include a hide/sneak mode when you take the bowl off of the pedestal at the beginning. If you take the bowl and immediatly sneak, or be sneaking when you take the bowl, you should be able to sneak through the rest of the dungeon without getting agro. It might be a game of patience in most circumstances, but it would be a fun mechanic nonetheless.

Rogues should be allowed an alternative way to complete quests then just hack-n-slash. Or alternative ways of helping a party complete a quest faster and easier besides just "trap-monkey".

[ArkoHighStar]

Thanks

The ongoing joke in the DDO world of Rogues is disabling traps is what you do AFTER the party runs through and is busy killing the mobs just past the trap.

No one waits.

Traps should HURT if you try to bypass them. Oh sure, we don't want to make things impossible without a rogue (one isn't always available) but it should hurt.

And there should be some optionals that NEED a rogue. No rogue? Fine, you just lost that optional mob and the associated xp & chest.





Fluffy is right. If you made the search animiation faster (it is PAINFULLY slow) it would be huge. A slight increase in the disable animation also wouldn't hurt but it isn't as bad.

Also a minor little nit... for those of us that haven't been in the dungeon as a rogue 100 times we first have to do the search animation, and then we have to look for real for the stupid trap when we hear it pop. Could we please, just in the Rogue's animation, have some big bright shiney highlight/arrow/something point out the location we just spent 10 seconds searching for?

And here's one people will probably find petty but it would make the rogue more efficient... Why do I even have to click the "disable" button? Why can't I just click on the trap to use it? There is no way to use a trap except disable it after all...

I think we should go beyond that, if you spot the trap, the system should make an automatic search check, if you beat the dc by a certain amount you don't need to make a search action, if you don't then you make the regular search.
Clicking on the box to disable could be troublesome as you might disable the trap when you don't want to, clicking on the disable button is very quick, but I agree the animation is too slow

[Gratch]

You are walking a very fine line that may result in creating quests that require certain classes to be in the party in order for the quest to be completed. I hope that you guys keep to your word by not crossing that line.

I mostly just want to hear something along these lines:

Rogue: Trap
Fighter: Who cares, I have 500 hp, I'm pushing through.
Rogue: Searching - maybe the cleric will wait.
Fighter: Arghghh... the floor fell in... I'm falling a really long ways. I'm okay... what's that ahead...?
Rogue: I found the box... but I don't know how that will help given you just sprung the floor.
FIghter. There's mindlflayers down here and I'm stunned. ARGGHHH... there's oozes coming up while he's sucking my brain out and I'm wielding the sword of shadows. I can see it's durability dropping.... AERREREGGGHHH...
Rogue: So can we stop next time I say trap?

Please Rocking... just a few one room branching paths that don't have to be traversed if the trap is found. So that you can do it without a rogue... you just might not want to... Blowing toons into blades sort of works... but blowing them into a beholder room... even better.

We had a bunch of threads on trap types at one point... but usually after the first run through, people know how to avoid them without *much* pain... let's change that in a place or two.

[Mercules]

And there should be some optionals that NEED a rogue. No rogue? Fine, you just lost that optional mob and the associated xp & chest.

From experience it would have to be a pretty good chest and not otherwise difficult to get to or people will just run PoP for chests and ignore that one. A possible named item spawning there might do it. The XP bonus for optionals is a joke right now. One run of PoP is how many optionals worth of XP?

Fluffy is right. If you made the search animiation faster (it is PAINFULLY slow) it would be huge. A slight increase in the disable animation also wouldn't hurt but it isn't as bad.

Also a minor little nit... for those of us that haven't been in the dungeon as a rogue 100 times we first have to do the search animation, and then we have to look for real for the stupid trap when we hear it pop. Could we please, just in the Rogue's animation, have some big bright shiney highlight/arrow/something point out the location we just spent 10 seconds searching for?

And here's one people will probably find petty but it would make the rogue more efficient... Why do I even have to click the "disable" button? Why can't I just click on the trap to use it? There is no way to use a trap except disable it after all...

I have to agree. I already have to swap several equipment pieces and search before I disable the trap.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Please Rocking... just a few one room branching paths that don't have to be traversed if the trap is found. So that you can do it without a rogue... you just might not want to... Blowing toons into blades sort of works... but blowing them into a beholder room... even better.

We had a bunch of threads on trap types at one point... but usually after the first run through, people know how to avoid them without *much* pain... let's change that in a place or two.

Two words: Teleport traps. You rush through get sent "somewhere" from which you cannot escape. The party must rescue you. Although, that punishes the party (being down 1 man) for your stupid mistakes.

Better still; Pit of Acid. You fall in, there's no way out except to wait as the pit fills with acid. You swim in the Acid and when the level rises high enough, you can reach the edge to jump out. Not only do you take 10d6 acid pool damage as the acid rises, but so does all of your non-blueshine equipment. Now, THAT'S evil to the zerger.

[Palmetto]

I mostly just want to hear something along these lines:

Rogue: Trap
Fighter: Who cares, I have 500 hp, I'm pushing through.
Rogue: Searching - maybe the cleric will wait.
Fighter: Arghghh... the floor fell in... I'm falling a really long ways. I'm okay... what's that ahead...?
Rogue: I found the box... but I don't know how that will help given you just sprung the floor.
FIghter. There's mindlflayers down here and I'm stunned. ARGGHHH... there's oozes coming up while he's sucking my brain out and I'm wielding the sword of shadows. I can see it's durability dropping.... AERREREGGGHHH...
Rogue: So can we stop next time I say trap?

Please Rocking... just a few one room branching paths that don't have to be traversed if the trap is found. So that you can do it without a rogue... you just might not want to... Blowing toons into blades sort of works... but blowing them into a beholder room... even better.

We had a bunch of threads on trap types at one point... but usually after the first run through, people know how to avoid them without *much* pain... let's change that in a place or two.

In you scenario if the quest can still be completed - just much more painfully - then by all means create it. However, if the quest was just ruined by the idiot that fell through the floor then I'll have to pass.

[ArkoHighStar]

You are walking a very fine line that may result in creating quests that require certain classes to be in the party in order for the quest to be completed. I hope that you guys keep to your word by not crossing that line.

I disagree Palmetto there should be certain quests where having a rogue gives you an advantage. They should be completable without a rogue but it should cost you something, ie nice big bits of damage, use of mana to protect people from the effects etc.

I would love to see a room with a lava lake with small islands, that without a rogue would require people to heal up as they go stopping at the islands, however a rogue could disable a device lowering a bridge. Or a long trap filled hallway with the box at the end that holds a +1 chest, or a lever to open a shortcut etc.

[Palmetto]

I disagree Palmetto there should be certain quests where having a rogue gives you an advantage. They should be completable without a rogue but it should cost you something, ie nice big bits of damage, use of mana to protect people from the effects etc.

I would love to see a room with a lava lake with small islands, that without a rogue would require people to heal up as they go stopping at the islands, however a rogue could disable a device lowering a bridge. Or a long trap filled hallway with the box at the end that holds a +1 chest, or a lever to open a shortcut etc.

Advantage? Absolutely, but not required for completion.

That's what I'm talking about!!!!

[Mercules]

So that you can do it without a rogue... you just might not want to... Blowing toons into blades sort of works... but blowing them into a beholder room... even better.

The first time I ran through And the Dead Shall Rise on my Rogue I was trying to keep towards the front of the party but one Fighter kept getting ahead. I had no more than said, "You might want to let me go first." than we hit one of the landings and the Fighter was blown through the blades and into open space. He splatted as he "Couldn't find my FF device fast enough." It was priceless.

I was sad he died from it, but it was just as likely he wouldn't and it would have just been an inconvenience to him to run back through.

[Emili]

I mostly just want to hear something along these lines:

Rogue: Trap
Fighter: Who cares, I have 500 hp, I'm pushing through.
Rogue: Searching - maybe the cleric will wait.
Fighter: Arghghh... the floor fell in... I'm falling a really long ways. I'm okay... what's that ahead...?
Rogue: I found the box... but I don't know how that will help given you just sprung the floor.
FIghter. There's mindlflayers down here and I'm stunned. ARGGHHH... there's oozes coming up while he's sucking my brain out and I'm wielding the sword of shadows. I can see it's durability dropping.... AERREREGGGHHH...
Rogue: So can we stop next time I say trap?

Please Rocking... just a few one room branching paths that don't have to be traversed if the trap is found. So that you can do it without a rogue... you just might not want to... Blowing toons into blades sort of works... but blowing them into a beholder room... even better.

We had a bunch of threads on trap types at one point... but usually after the first run through, people know how to avoid them without *much* pain... let's change that in a place or two.

Well, on the same token, what if they required everyone in a quest to have 500hp, or 34 cha? Point being requiring a class is not a good thing.

I personaly do not like the idea of extremes - even in elite ie. the cabal chest - why should a rogue be a complete trap monkey or lock smith etc... they're much more that that. I do not see them putting in 44 str switches or 34 cha runes in elite content quests, why single out the rogue class and make them near max Search and Disable Device plus full buffs to have any chance at getting a trap box? That's crazy. Think about it. There should be less extreme (min/max) and the well rounded should be the more versitle class who survives the best - not the other way around. Building a barb with 500hp should cost you a ton in offensive capability, Building a complete trap monkey does already... I'd personally like to see builds at the extreme rendered incapable of doing anything outside the point of thier extremes. Make all stats count for something... that includes all skills and saves.

[Mercules]

Well, on the same token, what if they required everyone in a quest to have 500hp, or 34 cha? Point being requiring a class is not a good thing.

We could easily make the claim that the extreme nature of some of the mobs is starting to make a 300 HP tank and a spam healing Cleric a need for some of the quests.

[Charmazal]

Speed up the search skill.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Two words: Teleport traps. You rush through get sent "somewhere" from which you cannot escape. The party must rescue you. Although, that punishes the party (being down 1 man) for your stupid mistakes.

Better still; Pit of Acid. You fall in, there's no way out except to wait as the pit fills with acid. You swim in the Acid and when the level rises high enough, you can reach the edge to jump out. Not only do you take 10d6 acid pool damage as the acid rises, but so does all of your non-blueshine equipment. Now, THAT'S evil to the zerger.

Heh... you just reminded me of two of my favorite D&D traps from 3.0. Both were from the same Wizard's dungeon (who's name now escapes me).

You were in a tower that was very very very high up. The first had floor traps that when sprung dropped you through a tunnel covered in razer sharp blades (damage while falling) and then tossed you out of the side of the tower where you would probably plumet to your death (FF not so common as it is here...). If you managed to arrest the fall in the chute with a particular saving throw you took more damage from the blades while trying to climb back up. Barb and wizard fell... Barb splatted, Wizard cast FF and lived (not by much, blades almost killed him). One retreat to get the body and a raise dead later (she didn't really want to be that level anyway) we were back on track for trap number two...

Second trap was a teleporter, just like you say. Once again, Barb decided to investigate the odd area while the rogue was searching elsewhere in the room. Barb found himself in another room visiting half a dozen bad asses. The gong that accompanied the transport had us enjoying more monsters with our lead killer missing.

[Chelsa]

I think there should be traps that will just flat out kill people. Sure you can run through it or however you get by it, but without the rogue you just die. The only cost will be time and resources.