Possible rogue based quest

[Allice]

Im quite fond of rogues, and you can ask any one i group with i love traps. What i would like to see is maybe a quest or event geared towards rogues. Kinda like Stealthy Reposesion but more trap bassed. Like the old world crucible. Were the point is to run through all the traps without dying. The trap boxes on the the other side of the traps and the like. I would personally have the quest set to just making it through alive as the point of the quest. Have solo-elite difficulties maybe add a few secret doors with mobs for those who arnt rogues =). I know this is alot like the crucible with the trap part and the swimming part. But i would like one that any level rogue can get to and try, one that possibly sets to the level of the player or group instead of being a specific level.

[barecm]

The unfortunate reality is that Turbine will not develop quests for a single class. Although I would like to see some more quests where having a rogue is mandatory, it won't happen. Yes, there are times where having a rogue will be nice or easy or faster, but never required. What I can see are more chests that can only be accessed with a skillful rogue to pick the locks and traps similar to the one in Cabal. However, those type chests should be +1 lvl imho; probably won't happen either.

[llevenbaxx]

...But hopefully they dont go completely nuts with the pure-rogue-trapmonkey type stuff or the one or two of us who made MC rogues would be thinking it pretty lame. I was bummed out that my character with 10 levels of rogue, who stayed very dedicated to his craft(via equipment, enhancement and skill points) was numerically excluded(if only until next cap raise) from any of the rogue content.

Yes, I know its only one trap but you could also call it the first, especially since it did get some positive responses on the forums. Fact of the matter, that IS content made for not just one class, but one single build. Not a great idea imho.

[smyter]

have you ever run cabal with the traps turned on?

[llevenbaxx]

have you ever run cabal with the traps turned on?

How do you do that? Every time Ive ever been in there, they are all off, no matter the setting.

[teddok]

How do you do that? Every time Ive ever been in there, they are all off, no matter the setting.

U kill that guy at the begining. He dies that traps are left on. U do lose out on a trap though.

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

How do you do that? Every time Ive ever been in there, they are all off, no matter the setting.

i believe theres an NPC or something that will disable them for you.

[Kalanth]

...But hopefully they dont go completely nuts with the pure-rogue-trapmonkey type stuff or the one or two of us who made MC rogues would be thinking it pretty lame. I was bummed out that my character with 10 levels of rogue, who stayed very dedicated to his craft(via equipment, enhancement and skill points) was numerically excluded(if only until next cap raise) from any of the rogue content.

You were? I should keep an eye out for things like that because I can find every trap except for the mighty Cabal trap with my Rogue 10 / Barbarian 3.

I would like to see more trap heavy quests, and more quests that require stealth as well. Stealthy Repo is a good sneaker quest, and Maze of Madness is excellent for the traps, but combine the two and things would be more interesting in my opinion.

[VonBek]

Stealty Repo stands as a good training run for sneaky & stealthy types. I have run it on elite with untwinked 2nd level Halflings. Casters and Melees can also run it, with durability, creativity, or a bit of both.

I would look forward to a series of quests along a similar path. The Quickfoot Gang have turned up in Cerulean Hills, Searing Heights. Their Hideout has toppled a few times, perhaps explaining why they make their presence known in that Vile Apothecary. Where will they, or their allies, next appear?

How would you design a follow-on quest for Stealth/Lockpick/Trapsmith types, without shutting out other play styles? What elements would you include besides traps and locks)? Can you a challenge for the "insidious cunning" bonus bypassing all mobs and not forcing conflict with oozeis and vermin?

[Ragons]

The best quest for the rogue has to be 'Made to Order'. It is the only quest that I have seen that the party lets the rogue go first. The rogue not only disable the traps but also scouts ahead. I've seen people run through the traps but after setting off the land mines traps they usually are staring at 6 dwarvies. After a couple of time of running through the mines and hitting the dwarf parties, people learn the rogue should go first!
(I always enjoyed the 'Get Smart' doors at the end.)

[BlueLightBandit]

Also is it Ghola Fan where there are a series of traps that you have to go through, to open a door, to fight some mobs, to get a key and hit a switch, to end up with the rest of the party staring blankly at you.

It can be done by something other than a rogue... but watching them take their time while you blitz through it is awfully fun.

[llevenbaxx]

You were? I should keep an eye out for things like that because I can find every trap except for the mighty Cabal trap with my Rogue 10 / Barbarian 3.

I would like to see more trap heavy quests, and more quests that require stealth as well. Stealthy Repo is a good sneaker quest, and Maze of Madness is excellent for the traps, but combine the two and things would be more interesting in my opinion.

No, its just the one also. There was some praise from trapmonkies over this though, saying its "One trap in the whole game". Much like when the dragon raid came out it was just "One chest in the whole game" with the raid loot system. Just dont want these popping up all over.

Agree though, would also like to see some more content that had some more use for the other skills as I really like the class.

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

next level cap increase that trap will probably be getting disabled all the time, cnaces are the max is litterally just 1 or 2 off from it XD

[Allice]

I brought this up on the fact that rogues are one of the tougher classes to build. In all other games ive played rogues were weak tanks who would stand in the back and poke. This is the first game ive played were a rogue does what there sposed to do. They brave traps and sneak around for whatever personal drive they have. Stealthy reposession was good because it taught you to sneak and that sneak wasnt the just hide and walk foward ordeal it is in most games. In ddo you have to actually think when sneaking you have to stay in the shadows and away from the mobs. In games like EQ you can litterally walk over the mob and they wouldnt notice you. So you have to learn to sneak to become decent at it. As far as traps now a days it seems that the majority of them a rogue can just run through and have the cleric heal. There are some like in crucible that you cant just do that but even that one ive seen clerics do. I just think rogues should have a place to test there skills, based on there level, to see if there skills are up to par. Rogues are the only class were they have skills that they have to keep up to get a group through a mission, I could be wrong but thats what ive seen. Plus i really like running through traps.

[Mercules]

And the Dead Shall Rise is another great Rogue quest. I suppose they figured if they didn't have them parties would just grab other classes because of all the undead. Notice, many undead heavy quests are also trap heavy giving the Rogue who is loosing his DPS a reason to come along for his other role.

The nice thing about And the Dead Shall Rise is that while most of those traps won't kill you, they will ruin your day. Getting blown off the ledge 3/4 of the way up the tower means a LONG run all the way back up passing through all those traps you ran through before. The quest doesn't make a Rogue a need, but it sure implies a need for one.

That being said these quests are fun for those of us who like playing Rogues. I'm sorry if our trapsmithing slows down the zergtastic fun, but traps are a major part of any D&D dungeon crawl. So, does anyone have phone number for the creators of Grimtooth's books? Is it Catalyst, I don't remember.

[DSL]

And the Dead Shall Rise is another great Rogue quest. I suppose they figured if they didn't have them parties would just grab other classes because of all the undead. Notice, many undead heavy quests are also trap heavy giving the Rogue who is loosing his DPS a reason to come along for his other role.

The nice thing about And the Dead Shall Rise is that while most of those traps won't kill you, they will ruin your day. Getting blown off the ledge 3/4 of the way up the tower means a LONG run all the way back up passing through all those traps you ran through before. The quest doesn't make a Rogue a need, but it sure implies a need for one.

That being said these quests are fun for those of us who like playing Rogues. I'm sorry if our trapsmithing slows down the zergtastic fun, but traps are a major part of any D&D dungeon crawl. So, does anyone have phone number for the creators of Grimtooth's books? Is it Catalyst, I don't remember.

Ahhh, I fondly remember the Grimtooth books. Great fun indeed.

As someone who plays a rogue, I would not want to see quests that absolutely need one, but rather more traps like in And the Dead Shall Rise, which rely not so much on damage, but rather inconvenience. If the quest can be completed in half the time with a rogue disabling traps, then we will see parties more eager to bring them along for these sorts of runs (especially when dealing with undead). Wizard King is full of traps, for example, but rogues are routinely refused in PUG runs for this one, since most groups simply run through them.

However, no single class should ever really be mandatory for a quest, and even making specific classes nearly so should be done in moderation.

[FluffyDucky]

A simple way to make groups more accepting of trap-smithing (instead of just running through traps and healing on the other side) is to speed up the process. Waiting for the sloooow search animation, then looking for the box you just 'found', then waiting for the slow disable device animation just takes to long to be worth it for most traps. I've had parties run through a trap, heal up, and take out the next room in the time it took me to find and disable a trap. And that was knowing where to look and finding/disabling it on the first try.

Besides speeding up the search and disable animations there are two other changes I would like to see that would speed up the process.

First, make the 'found trap' sound louder. Many times I have searched multiple times when I actually found the trap on the first try. Remember, I need to be able to hear the sound over the roaring flames, crashing blades, etc.

Second, once I have 'found' the trap do not make me search for the control box. I just made a successful roll, I should know where it is. Make it bright, sparkle, or even a big blue arrow pointing at the box. Making me hunt it down on the back of a column behind some spider webs when I supposedly just found it adds nothing but delays to a process that is already to slow.

[VonBek]

A simple way to make groups more accepting of trap-smithing (instead of just running through traps and healing on the other side) is to speed up the process. ...

Given the pace of many groups, the basic idea seems pretty constructive.

[Mercules]

First, make the 'found trap' sound louder. Many times I have searched multiple times when I actually found the trap on the first try. Remember, I need to be able to hear the sound over the roaring flames, crashing blades, etc.

I did that last night. I "spotted" the trap, so I searched it out. There was the trap, no box in sight so I ran back a bit, re-equipped my Spot goggles and moved forward till I got a spot notice again. I then Searched again from that spot. No box. Hmmmm... I put on the spot item again... Moved to the left and got the notice. Moved to the right, no notice. So I moved all the way over to the left of the hall and searched again. Still nothing. I ran through the trap, looked around. Nothing.

Now I was upset since my Search is HIGHER than my spot. I've never had a trap I could Spot, but couldn't Search. I am frustrated, double checking equipment when someone says, "Hey, it's over there in the corner." Yep... up and around the corner WAY away from the trap and I was able to pick it up with the initial Search to uncover the trap which is why I couldn't "find" it later or hear a successful Search sound.

[The_Rocking_Dead]

We're exploring some options for making trapsmiths a little more useful. We want rogues to feel wanted, afterall. I agree, traps which waste a significant amount of time or resources ultimately do a better job of exhibiting a rogue's usefulness than one which poses a minor inconvenience.


I've got plenty of nasty little traps lined up for you in Module 5. I hope you'll enjoy running into them!