Aggravation...

[Maatogaeoth]

Hey folks, I just thought I'd rant a bit. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong...

When I'm the only healer in a group, why do I get snide/rude/straight-out-nasty comments when I'm being stingy with buffing the tar out of the entire group?

Yes, I understand resists are needed in PoP, but as the group was moving along well with the sorc/others single-shot killing everything, why would we need them before the specific rooms?

I'm trying to get a feel for how the group is going to see if I'll have enough mana to keep people alive through even the clearing of the place.

It was going well until people decided that they didn't need to stick together and thus agro about 12 guys instead of the 2-4 we had been handling quite easily...

If you can't buff yourself, get a dang potion. If you can't afford a potion, then well, do a different quest.

I'm sure that made no sense, but at least I feel like logging back in and playing my cleric again someday.

[Aranticus]

nope a cleric doesnt necessarily have to buff. it depends on situations. it boils down to communication, group and experience. pop is such an easy quest that L9s and 10s are getting into the fray. these players do not have 30 pt resists so if you are the only buffer around then of coz you have to buff. similarly if the caster is not L13 (for wiz) or L14 (for sorc), you will not have the fod/pk combo which kills everything in sight and hence the group will need buffs to slug it out.

the mobs in pop frequently cast symbol of flame, burning blood, gtr command. a commanded caster = dead caster. symbol of flame last for sometime and all who passes thru it will need resist. in addition, not all casters fod/pk. i've seen many who use fireballs and other spells. that also, the quest is so easy that many tanks want to zerg ahead to get kills rather than let the caster top the count.

i did pop with ya earlier today, you are not a bad cleric. however, the 3 tanks in the party (including me) were dealing too much damage and carnage for the party casters (kudos to skug and vorpax) and thus they were asking for resists. yours was the 5 or 6th run, all prev runs took just 1 haste (less than 2 min to be exact) to mop all the corridor mobs up

not all players are built for self sufficiency. my fighter has perm acid, fire and cold resist. but this means that i'm not wearing a +4 resist cloak or +5 prot cloak and some other uber rings that will help improve my fighting prowress. there are trade offs which you may not necessarily see. pots wise, resist pots 20 or 30 are not sold in the shops and even if they are, they'll be expensive and players will not buy them still

i play a host of classes for one purpose, that is to understand party dynamics better. we cannot be better players until we understand how a party gels and perform. in order to do that, we must know how each member is going to react. ie when buffing, non buffers should specify the exact buffs needed as the casters/clerics does not know what they exactly have.

look me up, in game or with pm. i'll be glad to teach you more if u do not mind my noobness

[Ghoste]

You're suffering from I'm-sick-of-being-a-babysitter-syndrome, most clerics get it at one time or another.

[Hvymetal]

As Aranticus stated, there are a few effects that help out against damage in pop, Fire & Acid for the Burning blood and symbol, Cold for the Fire Shield (cold) the blackguards have. Granted I do carry potions, but 10 resist does not go very far on a quest of that level. On my Pally I'll resist the party (so long as I have mana left). If not I do what I can if I ahve to switch out an item (like resist, stat or protection items, lowering my saves, ac or other abilities) and I have the item I will. If not a resist is appreciated but I'll chug a pot even if I gotta at least it mitigates a small amount of the incoming elemental damage.

[Strakeln]

I see the OP's point as one similar to what I have experienced as I brought my cleric up...

My sorc could be considered my main, so I'm used to passing out buffs like they're candy. Even hella-buffing the entire party (GH, jump, blur, displace, 2 resists per, and a haste), I still have more than 1000 mana when done.

Compare this to my cleric, passing out two resists per person quickly burns through half my mana, meaning I can't step into my cleric only-buffs (FoM, DW, etc). Not to mention people will be wanting those heals.

The difference here, is that when a sorc or wizard runs out of mana, no one expects them to toss out a super-uber-nuke-everything-ball-of-fire-ice-and-lightning. But when the cleric is out of mana, everyone still expects super-uber healing. Not to mention the sorc has DVs available to replace the mana he spent buffing, while the cleric does not get that.

Look at it this way: every 2 resist energies you have cast by your cleric will be one heal scroll that cleric will need to burn.

I get a real kick out of the sorcs out there who don't even carry around resist energy. "Oh, I'm a nuker"... so you thought that there was no need for you to have what is arguably the most effective 5 defensive buffs in the game, that only cost one spell slot? Dare I ask what amazing level 2 nuking spell was more important than resist energy?

Okay, I'm ranting. I guess now I understand why people were always thanking me for putting basic buffs on 'em with my sorc...

[Crabo]

I see the OP's point as one similar to what I have experienced as I brought my cleric up...

My sorc could be considered my main, so I'm used to passing out buffs like they're candy. Even hella-buffing the entire party (GH, jump, blur, displace, 2 resists per, and a haste), I still have more than 1000 mana when done.

Compare this to my cleric, passing out two resists per person quickly burns through half my mana, meaning I can't step into my cleric only-buffs (FoM, DW, etc). Not to mention people will be wanting those heals.

The difference here, is that when a sorc or wizard runs out of mana, no one expects them to toss out a super-uber-nuke-everything-ball-of-fire-ice-and-lightning. But when the cleric is out of mana, everyone still expects super-uber healing. Not to mention the sorc has DVs available to replace the mana he spent buffing, while the cleric does not get that.

Look at it this way: every 2 resist energies you have cast by your cleric will be one heal scroll that cleric will need to burn.

I get a real kick out of the sorcs out there who don't even carry around resist energy. "Oh, I'm a nuker"... so you thought that there was no need for you to have what is arguably the most effective 5 defensive buffs in the game, that only cost one spell slot? Dare I ask what amazing level 2 nuking spell was more important than resist energy?

Okay, I'm ranting. I guess now I understand why people were always thanking me for putting basic buffs on 'em with my sorc...

I think along very similar lines to you on this. When i rolled my 2nd sorc a guy told me in deleras that i was crazy for not taking web as a spell.I was only level 5 so only had 1 x lvl2 spell and I know that taking resist energy was far more important, a dead sorc deals zero damage. I carry web on my sorcs now but i dont even know why, i rarely use it except to web a few skellies in madstone once in a while.
Mine is a sorc that will be eagerly waiting for you to enter the dungeon so she can buff you with all she has. Pickup groups suck enough as it is without all the tanks running around with no buffs. And until they make 24 man raid dungeons, my 1800sp is more than enough to buff the entire party and have a little fun nuking stuff.

[Alvian_Naivla]

My wife is having the same problem. Some people just either are not aware of the little amount of sps clerics get, or flat out new. Some people will trust their friendly cleric, others want to see every buff on them for no reason.

For example, my wife was in a group yesterday, aoed everyone with her buffs, and gave everyone death ward. (quest needed it, and no one had it), and was down to 1/2 sp, with the first shrine being quite a ways down the road.

Within a few mins, the tanks in the group started bashing on her, saying things that she could have (and should have imo) gotten banned for, just because they didnt have resists up. There were two pallys and two wizzys in the group that could have resisted them up, while she dved them.

Yes, she even asked more than a few times. She was stubborn and she stayed, and eight mins. later, they finished the quest, and no one died. They didn't need one of those resists, but they sure got heated having to play with out them.

Don't let it get to you, if you were a bad cleric, you'd know. Knowing when to buff and when not to buff, makes you a great cleric imo--you'll have more sp to heal when things get hairy.

I don't remember your level, so you're probably a lot higher, but if you ever need to "gripe," wife says to send Vahlaria a tell in game.

[Maatogaeoth]

Thanks for the responses everyone. At least I’m not completely alone in my complaint…

I find it pretty bad that one bad egg (or in this case… rogue) twisted what had been a pretty impressive string of good PuGs that I’d found myself lucky enough to be a part of.

Ah, in case anyone was wondering, I played long enough yesterday to finish getting my level. Ding 14! Wheee, now I don’t have to worry about grouping with the person in question, as I’d ruin their xp. :P

[teddok]

Try being a bard in the party and the only caster period. God it gets old hey where is my resist. Im sorry Bards dont get resist spells.
Nope Sorry none dont get em. The best i can do is get the occasinal wand but its only 20.

Please stop asking bards for resists.

[Aranticus]

My wife is having the same problem. Some people just either are not aware of the little amount of sps clerics get, or flat out new. Some people will trust their friendly cleric, others want to see every buff on them for no reason.

For example, my wife was in a group yesterday, aoed everyone with her buffs, and gave everyone death ward. (quest needed it, and no one had it), and was down to 1/2 sp, with the first shrine being quite a ways down the road.

Within a few mins, the tanks in the group started bashing on her, saying things that she could have (and should have imo) gotten banned for, just because they didnt have resists up. There were two pallys and two wizzys in the group that could have resisted them up, while she dved them.

Yes, she even asked more than a few times. She was stubborn and she stayed, and eight mins. later, they finished the quest, and no one died. They didn't need one of those resists, but they sure got heated having to play with out them.

Don't let it get to you, if you were a bad cleric, you'd know. Knowing when to buff and when not to buff, makes you a great cleric imo--you'll have more sp to heal when things get hairy.

I don't remember your level, so you're probably a lot higher, but if you ever need to "gripe," wife says to send Vahlaria a tell in game.

a few clarifications here. clerics do not necessary get less sp. in fact their sp have been bumped up by turbine recently to be comparable to wiz. built right, your sp will be 1300+ (my drow clr is sitting on 1200+ with a wiz2 item, dwarf clr has 1353 sp with a pop10)

but i agree with your assessment of the duties of buffing. it should be shared. i just hate going into a group where the 12pal/2rog or the 11rgr/3ftr or even straight pally or rgr that ask for buffs just coz they need the sp for their own use (i met a 600+ sp rgr that do not carry resist). my question is then, why even roll that toon? just roll a staight ftr or barb!

btw your wife should have reported those players. we are here having fun. getting abused is not fun. this people do not deserve the kindess of your wife. but this is my opinion thou.

[Psyk0sisS]

With my Sorc, I always try to buff the resists that I know will be needed. I buff at the beginning, but if people just take off without waiting for buffs, I dont get mad at them...I actually try to hunt them down and buff them with at least blur and whatever ele. buff I think they need. There's no need to be a jerk and say "well if you run away you must not want buffs". I try to make everyone's job easier, and a Cler that has to heal less is happier. I even have a level of Bard (which some say is dumb since I have no FoD) but I can wand heal, rez, use Heal scrolls, and pretty much any other scroll I get my hands on. The "batman" build for the squishy side :P. Keep your head up, Cleric'n is typically a thankless job ( I rarely get thanks for the Heal's and Rezzes I pass out too).

[Psyk0sisS]

DELETED *double posted somehow*

[Emili]

It comes down to party resources... My heathier (cleric) has all but 1275 mana. I truely expect the arcane to hand out resist and really on Heathier's part I'll prefer to toss out DW and some mass buffs for spell resistance etc... However, if the arcane does not have the elemental resists, I'm not going to complain ... If I have to do it, I do it. The resists are going to help keep the party from getting hurt as much thus what I spend in resisting them saves the amount of cures and heals I will have to spend. Now, Killing... it's a clerical decision as to fire off a destruction or let the melee handle it etc... personally I find single targeting insta-death spells are a way to save mana sometimes... should you burn the sp on the destruction or burn some mass cures (or a heal or so) on some melee? Well, if destruction is going to save my sp (by not having to hit that 600hp barb after every group of mob because he's cheese of a defensive build) then yes... I'll destruct every other mob before he gets into contact with it. Afterall most likely he's not going to give me anything to help replace my heal scrolls or any wands i'd have to pull out. I like my groups to be fun for everyone... and those who are so self centered really need to stop and think or maybe just solo or leave the game entirely.

A PoP story:

I was on my fighter Emilee during one of the +1 loot weekends... we had a five person group (well enough for PoP elite) but as usual pulled in a sixth as a Pug. So I put up the LFM and low and behold a Sorc I grouped with before (and who I thought rather good) requested to join.

We'll as the group organized and cleared up a few odds and end before heading out to PoP... the Sorc was already there Pk'ng and FOD'ng the main halls... thus the group walked into an clean dungeon less the rooms. Fine, We catch up to the Sorc at the switch door... then all of a sudden realized this person must have woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Took down the big skele and off to each room this person just barked orders. PULL! (fine and dandy just must be in a hurry to loot as quickly as he can). At one point he barked at the cleric with us when he was topping him off - DON'T WAND WHIP ME, HEAL ME! Whoa, he does seem pretty arrogant today. Well as we get to the vamps room he screams out PULL! again and one of the other melee must have had enough - Pull it ur f*() ^& self... I thought dangit this is going to become a mess... well it did as before anyone was ready in the room the Sorc went ahead and Pulled it with 2 people in it - thus not ready, and overwhelmed they died. In comes the sorc and myself, I was feeling a bit angry at him and the situation also. I pull out my vorpal, the switch gets pulled again the melee kill the vamp and the sorc does his dance around a firewall being chased by shadowy gargs ... and we do not lift a finger to help him - after all he was the one full of himself. Thus the rest of the quest was pretty sober and like walking on egg-shells... we kill the end boss and the sorc throws up a greater tele - luckily I looked (restless isles). So naturally I did not take it, but some did... the Sorc drops group immediately and that was that.

Now, I would not name this Sorc and he had in the past been a very good player, able, capable and quite group friendly. I do not know how or why he got on a high horse to become so self-centered, as I said in the past he was very group friendly. To those who think they're IT it DDO... being capable, powerful etc... they need to come back down to earth and realize this is only a game... they're thousands of people who are just as powerful and capable and still humble and friendly - those are the great players who you could not possibly hold a candle to.

[Barumar]

When playing my Sorcerer I will always hit everyone as they enter the quest with Stoneskin and Blur (jump for me and the Cleric!) and ask who wants a Resist. I have learned that not all want/need them, but many do ask and I gladly give.

I have nearly 2000 SP, and especially if there is only one Cleric in the group, would much rather he/she saves as much mana as possible for healing (well I would like a Deathward - please!).

Sounds like everyone needs to communicate better, especially the group with two Pally's and two Casters! The Cleric should NOT have done any resist buffs in that group!

I also offer resists from my Pally - just not extended as I don't have it.

I PUG'd with a Cleric the other night who my Sorcerer matched well with. We both buffed before we shrined, and the smart fighters were there - close to but not at the scrine - to get re-buffed before we shrined so as to not waste our mana. Then he or I would rest and get buffed by the other depending on who had mana left.

It all comes down to communication and cooperation. Something I think we can all do more of...

Barumar

[JoeyJoJoJr]

we all play differently... i think alot of 'us' just have to remember not to be a jackarse when we find people who play a bit different then we do.

[Altarboy]

we all play differently... i think alot of 'us' just have to remember not to be a jackarse when we find people who play a bit different then we do.

I say we yell, scream, stamp our feet, call them names, report them, tell them how they "should have" built thier toon...and then demand an appology for their lousy playing style!

[JoeyJoJoJr]

I say we yell, scream, stamp our feet, call them names, report them, tell them how they "should have" built thier toon...and then demand an appology for their lousy playing style!

seems to be workin for us so far lol!!!

[kengsxr]

Ok, being that I am leveling up my 1st cleric(trapperjohn) I have to agree with the Idea of sharing the buffing. Like maybe even before going in, make sure the caster can buff, and just dv him back up so he can pk his way to fame. I have run it several times at lvl 10, and you cant beat haveing a bard along.
P.S. I now understand why clerics are broke. The greedy casters and Ftrs dont share their un-spent loot(well some don't- It has been my pleasure to run with many generous folks who -without being asked- just hand over a wand or 2 or some cash.)

[Aranticus]

Ok, being that I am leveling up my 1st cleric(trapperjohn) I have to agree with the Idea of sharing the buffing. Like maybe even before going in, make sure the caster can buff, and just dv him back up so he can pk his way to fame. I have run it several times at lvl 10, and you cant beat haveing a bard along.
P.S. I now understand why clerics are broke. The greedy casters and Ftrs dont share their un-spent loot(well some don't- It has been my pleasure to run with many generous folks who -without being asked- just hand over a wand or 2 or some cash.)

some truth in what you said. i wish to highlight to many of the players out there that some players while not sharing the loot with the cleric, will do it in other ways. on my fighter, i carry 200 csw 100 haste and other assorted pots and clickies. its not uncommon for me to use 100 in a quest. my ranger wand whips and even helps out the cleric to top others up. this is also another way party members can do to help out with the healing duties. please remember that the hp bar is your own. not the cleric's.....

[Alvian_Naivla]

Noticed more than a few people responded to my post in here, thought I would clarify a few things.

Wife's cleric is all of lvl 8...and it's her first character. She has 575 sp, not 1,300, or 1275. Resisting, and buffs, while damaging, and healing is easier when talking about lvl 14 game play.


However, it's always nice to hear other's opinions, even if they are on the "vetern elite" side of things.

To the others, and the op, thanks for all the good posts...they made my wife jump back on and play.

Glad to hear the op hit 14, and is in better spirits.