Ddovania!

[Aspenor]

Turns are Healing Power. I love and use Divine Healing.

(Combat): Mazrim's heal healed you for 952 points of damage.

[Hendrik]

Maybe with maximum charisma and equipped to the hilt for turning. I have yet to see successful turns at high levels, then again, we never use them. I don't think hardly any of my guild clerics care about charisma or DVs or any of that junk. It's all worthless. Healing power and hit points FTW.

You on Sarlona Asp?

Think I have a 16 or 18 CHA, Imp. Turning, the Raid Gloves from Reaver and can Turn 23HD.

I don't care about DV's either, Divine Cleansing is the only true path...

[Aspenor]

You on Sarlona Asp?

Think I have a 16 or 18 CHA, Imp. Turning, the Raid Gloves from Reaver and can Turn 23HD.

I don't care about DV's either, Divine Cleansing is the only true path...

Nope, still primarily on Argo and now on Ghallanda as well. I have a super lowbie gimped PD character on Khyber too. That's about it.

[Mercules]

(Combat): Mazrim's heal healed you for 952 points of damage.

Now do it through a wall or closed gate.

[Hendrik]

Nope, still primarily on Argo and now on Ghallanda as well. I have a super lowbie gimped PD character on Khyber too. That's about it.

Drat! Love to meet up with your guild CLRs.

I was in Madstone last night, Elite, and was able to Rebuke 1 or 2 out of 3 Giant Undead Not 'uber' at all, but not useless either. It's all in how you want to play and build your characters and playstyle.

Can't outright destroy them, but if they run and hide, still a benefit for the party.

Alright, things to do. Cyas later friends!

Safe travels Asp!

/respect

[Aspenor]

Now do it through a wall or closed gate.

Aspenor's presence makes all substance of the material plane within 50 feet insubstantial. This power can be activated at will.

[Aspenor]

Drat! Love to meet up with your guild CLRs.

I was in Madstone last night, Elite, and was able to Rebuke 1 or 2 out of 3 Giant Undead Not 'uber' at all, but not useless either. It's all in how you want to play and build your characters and playstyle.

Can't outright destroy them, but if they run and hide, still a benefit for the party.

Alright, things to do. Cyas later friends!

Safe travels Asp!

/respect

Work?!?! On a Friday? For shame!

[teddok]

Work?!?! On a Friday? For shame!

Some of us have real live's and cant just sit around all day playing DDO. I mean i spend 8 hours every day in the office, 7 hours of it cruzing the fourms (the last hour is for lunch.)

[Aspenor]

Some of us have real live's and cant just sit around all day playing DDO. I mean i spend 8 hours every day in the office, 7 hours of it cruzing the fourms (the last hour is for lunch.)

Wah wah wah what do you think I'M doin?!?! LoL. I just got my face out of a microscope and now I'm trollin'.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

LOL

Dingo just said you can turn undead. What a joke!!!

My cleric can.
But I had to devote an extreme amount on enhancements and feats to do it. (wish I had maxed out Chr when I created her )
I even recently discovered that I can make about one in three giant skeletons run away.
Oh, or did you mean by turning that they had to be destroyed?

Ok....maybe I can't turn on elite.........at least not consistantly on the highest quests.

Actually, it's hard to know for sure just how good my turning is.....the disruptor zergers take them out before I can get close enough to turn, or to see the results anyway......and the FOD casters are always trying to suck up my DVs.
So sad......so sad.

[Aspenor]

Tinted Faces version of Turn Undead: zerging halfling barbarians.

[blakbyrd]

Ok, first off, before this thread may or may not fly off into the wrong areas, it is important to first start off with the actual facts of what is being compared, and not just going off of rumors or one sides views on what may be. More specifically, how much Undead is actually in DDO quests, and of that, how many actual quests are basically based upon being all undead encounters (90% or so of mobs in a quest being undead, not just a quest that has a couple undead in it).

With the use of some table provided by other community members who have compiled lists of the available quests in the game, the actual numbers representing the undead encounters are more easily defined. For starters, this is post is taking into account a total of 182 in game quests, which should cover, pretty much, 99% of the quests in game. I have not included quests that do not involve an actual finish or XP page (like Making Your Presence Known), nor have I included any Explorer or Slayer type quests in this listing, as those are purely optional. Basically, only quests that have XP report pages and give a reward of some kind.

So, I will sum up the numbers in a simple list:

Total Quests: 182

Number of Quests with only 1-5 Undead (not the majority of mobs): 11
Number of Quests with 5+ Undead (not the majority of mobs): 15
Number of Quests Centered around Undead (the majority of mobs): 45

Percentage of Quests having 10+ Undead: 33%
Percentage of Quests Centered around Undead: 24.7%

To be fair, the quests with 5 or fewer undead hardly count, as most quests have the occasionally odd mob thrown in as well, that do not really mix with the other mobs of the quest. I do not add these quests into the total amount of quests with undead, because most simply include 1-3 such mobs and in almost all their cases they are side optionals that can be bypassed (for example the single arcane protecting the locked chest in Sewer Rescue).

The quests with 5 or more undead are quests that contain several undead but the undead are by far in the majority to the other mobs of the quest (things like the undead part underwater in WW part2, The Vampire room in PoP, The lone collection of zombies in garrison’s missing pack, etc). The vast majority of these quests counted contain less than 10 undead actually, which makes them hardly countable for this purpose but are included in the total number of quests with undead, because most of these undead encounters cannot be bypassed.

I will add the following disclaimer. I am quite familiar with nearly every quest in the game up to level 12. I am not completely familiar with t he level 13-14 quests. Because of this, I am erring on the side of the OP, and for quests I do not know well or don’t know at all, I have included them as having undead in them, which in fact some may not. So there is of course a margin of error here, but it errs on the high side, not low.

So as the OP states, yes about 1/3 of the quests contain undead, but it is only about ¼ of the quests are actually centered around it. Only when you start including the quests with sparse additions of undead do you near the 1/3 mark. If you add in the other explorer/slayer quests then the percentages drop even more. So, even with erring on the side of the OP, the actuality is that the undead presence is not quite as bad as is being presented, but it is close, and Mod5 will up the percentages a bit as well.

However, it is true that the perception is that the undead quests outnumber everything else, but this is for fairly simple reasons:

1. The greater majority of long chain quests are of the undead genre.
2. Many people skip many of the smaller less popular quests, which do not happen to contain undead, and thus consider the actual amount of quests in the game to be lower than they actually are, therefore giving a false representation of the quest percentages.
3. Several of the undead quests happen to give some of the more sought after end rewards, therefore people repeat them more often, giving a greater feel of more indeed quests than there actually are.
4. Because of undead quest chains being as they are, they fall in line with being quests necessary to complete for proper amounts of various favor rewards, and thus fall into the category of needing to be done for many people, and thus equating again to being more undead quests than there actually is.
5. Fighting undead requires different spells, weapons and such, which makes undead more noticeable, as people need to do more preparation for going into an undead quest over most other quests (as is partly brought up by earlier with the fact that undead are immune to so many abilities that are taken for granted in other quests)

Also to be considered is some situations in the past. Near the start of DDO, it was a common suggestion or desire that DDO have something similar to Ravenloft, and more specifically stated were vampires. As a result we started to see more undead quests show up, and most notable the Church and the Cult with the main Vampyre, which was followed up with an idea that the Necropolis was to be the substitute for a poor man’s Ravenloft setting.

At any rate, take this as you wish. What might stand to make more sense would be to compare this same thing to all other quests, but more specifically in reference to favor granted and XP awarded from undead quests over other quests. I might work on that if people want to know.

[Hendrik]

(Combat): Mazrim's heal healed you for 952 points of damage.

Reminds me, I hit a crit Heal for 1197 on a Human FTR with Imp Recovery...

[Aspenor]

Reminds me, I hit a crit Heal for 1197 on a Human FTR with Imp Recovery...

nice one /claps

[Hendrik]

Wah wah wah what do you think I'M doin?!?! LoL. I just got my face out of a microscope and now I'm trollin'.

/covers Asp microscope eyepiece with shoe polish

[JelloMold]

The real reason they use undead as often as they do is because undead are largely immune to many of the most powerful effects in the game. No enchantment effects work on undead, no illusion effects, no finger of death, no rogue sneak attack, no criticals, many are immune to diplomacy/intimidate, they're immune to ability damage, poison, disease, and numerous other effects.

Sure you can Turn them, but you could do that with the Fear spell... if they weren't immune to it.

Wow, so someone decides to populate their dungeon with baddies that are hard to kill instead of easy to kill. Yeah, that is a poor defensive strategy.

>Hmmm, I've got this super powerful weapon that will help me take over the continent. Should I use undead that these guys seem to have trouble with? Nah, I'll just pack it full of kobalds and CR1 spiders.

People ask for a challenge and then cry when there's a challenge.

[jwbarry]

Many years ago the Coin Lords introduced a law making it illegal to burn the dead. In a world full of nefarious characters, well, I suppose hindsight is 20/20...

[Roguewiz]

Wow, so someone decides to populate their dungeon with baddies that are hard to kill instead of easy to kill. Yeah, that is a poor defensive strategy.

>Hmmm, I've got this super powerful weapon that will help me take over the continent. Should I use undead that these guys seem to have trouble with? Nah, I'll just pack it full of kobalds and CR1 spiders.

People ask for a challenge and then cry when there's a challenge.

Filling dungeons with undead (and other annoying things...like slimes), is not challenging. It is the easy way out of designing difficult content. My usual DMS always have more undead than necessary in our campaign (mainly because of me and how I design my characters...but that is an entirely different gripe )

[Dirac]

Many years ago the Coin Lords introduced a law making it illegal to burn the dead. In a world full of nefarious characters, well, I suppose hindsight is 20/20...

ROFL!

[Praut_Ektor]

Many years ago the Coin Lords introduced a law making it illegal to burn the dead. In a world full of nefarious characters, well, I suppose hindsight is 20/20...

Two points:

In reference to the above, Xendrik has been beset by centuries of natural and political turmoil including the rise and fall of entire civilizations, you think they might have some spare skeletons hanging around...?



In reference to turning clerics:

My second character is one. 30 CHA (not 1750 yet) and 26 WIS. Once this mod comes out I will have 20+ turn attempts per day. This means DVs as much as turning. Divine healing seems a waste and heal deals with most of divine clensing's abilities. People have long scoffed at the turning cleric, but the fact of the matter is that if done right you are very much more effective than another cleric in the long run. I will be able to restore 2x the average ammount of SP that another cleric could do. I can heal for as much as they do. So why waste the turning attempts that the Gods gave you?