really tired

[hennebux]

I understand people want to multi paladins but come on already I'm sick of it.Can we please get some pure pallies in here talking about what's what.We all know pure pallies have been getting the shaft...I'd like to see a build that doesn't include punking out...

For instance, axiomatic better than lawful...
Wizardry better than wisdom for sp...
Adherent's pendant or nightforge gorget ?
Heavy pick improv crit punc ?
Smite evil does it land ?
Amongst many others....

[Jondallar]

When turbine makes pure paladins have some type of real advantage besides "I'm staying pure in hopes that turbine gives some class love at lvl 20" peole will begin to discuss the minutae of being a pure class paladin. As it stands there is barely any reason to go full paladin. Multiclass makes the paladin so much better.

That being said I have a multiclass Paladin who uses heavy picks and Impr crit is a must, he steals kills all the time. Also he wears the Night forge gorget because A) I cant find anther heavy fort ring and B) He had the neck slot open.

Wisdom is not a must for SP. My paladin has a base wisdom of 12 and with the nightforge helm and a pop8 along with the energy of the templar enhancements and mental toughness has 295 sp, which unless you want to be a primary healer is plenty.

Smite still owns.

Adherent's Pendant blows, turn undead is still broken sacred items come on shields (+5 sacred Mithril Tower).

good enough for ya?

[Hvymetal]

I understand people want to multi paladins but come on already I'm sick of it.Can we please get some pure pallies in here talking about what's what.We all know pure pallies have been getting the shaft...I'd like to see a build that doesn't include punking out...

For instance, axiomatic better than lawful...
Wizardry better than wisdom for sp...
Adherent's pendant or nightforge gorget ?
Heavy pick improv crit punc ?
Smite evil does it land ?
Amongst many others....

I have a pure pally, and a multiclass, but yea unfortunatly my Pure seems to fall a little bit by the wayside each mod that comes out.

Axiomatic vrs. Lawfull, both situational, personally my new fav I am using is a Holy Burst Bastard Sword of Maiming.

Wiz vrs. Wisdom, in a perfect world I'd fit in both, right now I'm using a +6 Wisdom helm, the best Wiz item I have is I and the Wisdom also boosts my Will save by 3.

Adherent's Pendant vrs. Nightforge Gorget, I'd say the gorget, I made a mistake and took the Nightforge Plate when BAM 1st came out. Eventually things worked out for me, I pulled an Ancient Band I now wear for the Hvy. Fort and so now I wear the Adherents Pendant for the extra SP and because I am probablly one of the few Pally's w/ cure mod on my list and I use my sp to help back up heal after I've buffed everyone and left a pool for Divine Favor.

Smite Evil, yes still use it all the time.

Unfortunatly until we get some love there doesn't seem to be much to discuss without getting all the pure Pally's depressed

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

My recent "Paladin Build Guide" started with a 14 Paladin build.

But the reality is that past Level 11, there just is no convincing reason to stay a Paladin, and way too many good reasons to multi-class (Tower Shields, Bonus Feats, Evasion, Skill Points, SP, etc). The L3 & L4 spells are underwhelming (although, with what I'm hearing about Mod 5 Deathward may be far more important than we ever knew), and the AP's just don't shine either.

Give me a good reason to go more than 11 Paladin, and I'll be more than happy to crank out good Pure Paladin builds.

[hennebux]

I agree completely with the fact that "pure" pallies get the shaft.I have 2 capped.I would also like to add that wizardry is better for sp than wisdom you can always pick up resistance items easier. Also I rock pop's but it seems to me we're the least equipable class cause we got so many stats too feed

[KoboldKiller]

I have a good reason to stay pure, because Paladins are pure and righteous. To taint the blood of a Paladin is an abomination and all "multi-classed" Paladins should be spurned and purged.

Thank You,
Leothalas

[Jondallar]

I have a good reason to stay pure, because Paladins are pure and righteous. To taint the blood of a Paladin is an abomination and all "multi-classed" Paladins should be spurned and purged.

What if the Paladin had a troubled past...say born in the slums forced to learn how to steal(rogue) in order to survive, then becoming a street thug (fighter)until finally being called by the silver flame to be a paladin. Hows that for your roleplaying need to be a pure paladin.
Jond

[Hvymetal]

I agree completely with the fact that "pure" pallies get the shaft.I have 2 capped.I would also like to add that wizardry is better for sp than wisdom you can always pick up resistance items easier. Also I rock pop's but it seems to me we're the least equipable class cause we got so many stats too feed

I agree that wizardry is better, but I havent gotten better than a wiz II item for my pally really, and along with Karadin's Eye my will save is fairly high witha +6 wis helm

[Riddikulus]

But the reality is that past Level 11, there just is no convincing reason to stay a Paladin, and way too many good reasons to multi-class (Tower Shields, Bonus Feats, Evasion, Skill Points, SP, etc). The L3 & L4 spells are underwhelming (although, with what I'm hearing about Mod 5 Deathward may be far more important than we ever knew), and the AP's just don't shine either.

Give me a good reason to go more than 11 Paladin, and I'll be more than happy to crank out good Pure Paladin builds.

Agreed.

I think the reduction of the base AC aura from 2 to 1 was an attempt to make purer pally more enticing, but I haven't seen that do much... there are more MC builds than ever.

The fact is that three levels of paladin gives you all of the paladin benefits except for a couple extra points on AC/saves/loh/smite. My fighter10/pally3/ranger1 MC is absolutely superior to my pure pally in every way.

I'm not sure what can be done to "fix" paladins.

[Frodo_Lives]

I have a pure lvl 14 capped pally and I can tell you compared to my fighter he is gimped. I still enjoy playing him and he is a good addition to the group with his auras, healing, and buffs but he can't come close to a fighter or barbarian for pure melee damage.

My paladin has resorted to using smiters, vorpals, disruption weapons simply because I can't do enough damage otherwise except for smite.

I have a multi class paladin which is a 6/2 Paladin/Rogue who will go the rest of the way fighter that I think will turn out quite nicely, but even then I still think I took a few to many levels of paladin.

Paladins have gotten the shaft, and while they are fun at low levels they just don't add up to be what they should at higher levels.

[axebender]

the reasoning i think pure pally is out of style is dps is the new sexy thing. so people forsake the pally for fighter. a paladin is not a dps machine and kill counts mean nothing. i agree i love stayin pure pally and unfortunately paladins wont see anymore real love till end game if and when we see epic lvls. but point blank a well built pure pally can out last most classes in a quest despite not being able to pour out the damage. with a little patients and time the mob will die anyways just takes a little longer. hopefully with epic lvls all those that didnt go pure will be at aww of the paladins greatness.

[Mhykke]

the reasoning i think pure pally is out of style is dps is the new sexy thing. so people forsake the pally for fighter. a paladin is not a dps machine and kill counts mean nothing. i agree i love stayin pure pally and unfortunately paladins wont see anymore real love till end game if and when we see epic lvls. but point blank a well built pure pally can out last most classes in a quest despite not being able to pour out the damage. with a little patients and time the mob will die anyways just takes a little longer. hopefully with epic lvls all those that didnt go pure will be at aww of the paladins greatness.

Slight correction.
People don't forsake pally for fighter. They forsake pally for barbarian, if they're looking for dps.
If a paladin goes for DPS, he can hang well enough w/ fighters.


That being said, my main is a pure pally, and like was previously mentioned, the only reason I stay pure is in the hope that something gets tossed my way. We've seen races and classes get buffs, while paladins got nerfs. It ain't right I tells ya!

[axebender]

i agree the devs nerf pally because of the core rules like the nerf to divin power..but this is rediculas this game has become ddo not pnp ridiculously high hp mobs and a pnp based pally dont make sense they should have been more leanent with our extra 1 pt of ac they took away and divin power should have been left alone. though dp is still usefull ddo have to realize that its not balancing classes by making it more pnp when that got thrown out the window since launch

[Mhykke]

i agree the devs nerf pally because of the core rules like the nerf to divin power..but this is rediculas this game has become ddo not pnp ridiculously high hp mobs and a pnp based pally dont make sense they should have been more leanent with our extra 1 pt of ac they took away and divin power should have been left alone. though dp is still usefull ddo have to realize that its not balancing classes by making it more pnp when that got thrown out the window since launch

You won't find an argument from me. Paladins were hardly an overpowerful melee class before the nerf to aura and DF. In today's DDO, it's even more laughable looking at those nerfs.

[Hvymetal]

You won't find an argument from me. Paladins were hardly an overpowerful melee class before the nerf to aura and DF. In today's DDO, it's even more laughable looking at those nerfs.

You guys stop, you are making my Paladin, very very sad. And where's our Holy Avengers I say? Get one now it would be a "meh" weapon. I am guessing they will never be implimented.

[khonda]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the paladin class at higher levels. It all depends on what it is you are looking for in your character.

It's all a matter of give-and-take. My paladin is level 14. I could have splashed rogue for evasion, or fighter for extra feats; both were very tempting and very valid approaches. But I stayed as I did not want to dilute my attack bonus (-1 BAB for taking two levels of rogue) or will saves. Multi-classing also dilutes your caster-level and spell points.

And as a 14th level paladin, I can cast resist enery and death ward that is every bit as powerful as a cleric, and lasts just as long. I stayed pure paladin for that reason alone. I can cast extended resists and deathward on myself and others. In a way, I am "giving" 300 spell points to my party's cleric so she won't have to cast those resists, and can then cast more heals, destructions, etc.

I find the pure paladin is a good utility character. Providing an aura for the melees and providing extra spell points to the casters. All while maintaining full BAB, good armor class, and excellent saves.

I think paladins fit very well into the grand scheme of things. They don't dps as well as fighters and barbs, but make up for it with healing, buffing and auras.

Don't fear OP, there are other pure paladins out there

[bandyman1]

I have a pure lvl 14 capped pally and I can tell you compared to my fighter he is gimped. I still enjoy playing him and he is a good addition to the group with his auras, healing, and buffs but he can't come close to a fighter or barbarian for pure melee damage.

My paladin has resorted to using smiters, vorpals, disruption weapons simply because I can't do enough damage otherwise except for smite.

I have a multi class paladin which is a 6/2 Paladin/Rogue who will go the rest of the way fighter that I think will turn out quite nicely, but even then I still think I took a few to many levels of paladin.

Paladins have gotten the shaft, and while they are fun at low levels they just don't add up to be what they should at higher levels.

That's the part I don't understand. Why not? Best case senario, a fighter gets +3 Str from enhancements. That's +1 to hit and damage. And with max lvl Divine favor, it's the fighter that's behind the pally.

Neither can come close to a DPS speced barb.

[Riddikulus]

And as a 14th level paladin, I can cast resist enery and death ward that is every bit as powerful as a cleric, and lasts just as long. I stayed pure paladin for that reason alone. I can cast extended resists and deathward on myself and others. In a way, I am "giving" 300 spell points to my party's cleric so she won't have to cast those resists, and can then cast more heals, destructions, etc.

So your one big plus for Paladins is actually a diversion from the PnP rules and therefore subject to someday being nerfed?

In PnP a level 14 Paladin has a caster level of 7, so you should only be half as good as a cleric.

Paladins are in a sad state in DDO... and most of it has to do with inflated HP and AC that everyone has here.

[Hvymetal]

So your one big plus for Paladins is actually a diversion from the PnP rules and therefore subject to someday being nerfed?

In PnP a level 14 Paladin has a caster level of 7, so you should only be half as good as a cleric.

Paladins are in a sad state in DDO... and most of it has to do with inflated HP and AC that everyone has here.

QFT, and most especially the inflated AC and HP on the MOBs, and inflated attack bonuses while were at it. It might be nice to see a few class-specific items out there, not sure really how that would go just got off work, the sun is up and can't really think too well ATM.

[Blazer]

I wouldn't say a paladin is way behind a fighter, either, but they can be. To keep a paladin up with a fighter, you have to build more offensively than most paladins I've seen in game are built. Assuming the fighter has taken all the WS and WF feats, he's got an inherent +2 to hit (WF and GWF) and +4 to damage (WS and GWS). The paladin could take WF, but the other 3 feats are fighter only. So...

Paladin: WF, DF = +4 to hit, +3 to damage
Fighter: WF, GWF, WS, GWS = +2 to hit, +4 to damage

The difference I see is that the paladin needs a SP pool to get that +3/+3 from DF. Most times he can keep that running throughout a quest, but against beholders it's useless. His DF could also be dispelled, though I don't remember that happening often on my pure paladin. The fighter has an inherent +2 to hit and +4 to damage that is always present, although it is typed for a specific weapon type (typically slashing). The +3/+3 from DF is applicable to whatever weapon the paladin uses.