atari influence

[Rog]

IF atari is behind the lack of advertising which is putting a strangle hold on this game making it go stagent I consender this poor means of pumping a profit or good marking and they dont care to gamble on the cost of this game then mybe we as players should come together and buy out there shares and sell them to all ddo players becomming a player owened mmo and monthy cost shared between all of us have a open session then if the player owend part profits the profit is split between the players that pay the extra 5 to 10 dollars month to be a share holder. Is this insane or a half insane idea we have the base i game with many skilled and smart people atari forgot dnd has been around for 30 years or more and the player base for ddo reflects that if the game flawed am sure I could find YOU a 100 players that know how to fix it as for turbine they doing a great job with one arm tied behind there back not there fault there partner give up on them
lunarsong

[Taur]

nope.... turbine's the one with the **** poor track record.

[blakbyrd]

nope.... turbine's the one with the **** poor track record.

True Turbine has a bit of a bad reputation with some things, however, Atari's track record isn't so great either, not when it comes to the MMOs they have sponsored in the past. Other game types they seem to do well with, but apparently they still have not gotten the hang of the fact that MMOs are a different beast entirely.

Atari is no where near what it used to be, not even close. If you do a little reasearch on Atari, you may see why things are happening as they are (or rather why nothing seems to be happening). Here are some key notes regarding Atari's status in the past few years:

1. Atari is a subsidiary of Infogames, which is in s bit of financial trouble and some state is nearing potential bankruptcy. Infogames is said to be tightening the noose on funds to Atari.

2. Atari has been bought out 4 times over the past several years, each time becoming worth less and less.

3. Fiscal year of 2005, Atari reports a loss of $69 million.

4. Fiscal year of 2006, Atari reports a loss of $71.3 million.

5. First part 2007 Atari reports revenues of $407 million, yet only makes $5.7 million in profit.

6. January of 2007, Atari stocks considered a penny stock at under $0.60 a share, after warnings that they will be removed from NASDAQ.

7. January 2007, Atari announce a reverse stock split (ie everyone with 10 shares of stock now ends up with 1 share of stock). This is to try to get it's value back up over a $1 to remain viable for US stock listings. This is generally a trend when a company is in major financial distress, and rarely is good in the long run but it buys them a short amount of time. It is not long in most cases for the stocks to plummet back below a $1 again shortly after.

8. May 2007, Atari halves their office space in New York. From a $2.4 million dollar office budget to $1.2 million dollars, starting Dec 31st through 2011. Upping the office space budget to $1.3 million after that for 5 years, and upping it again to $1.4 million the following 5 years. A major downgrade for a company in financial distress.

9. May 2007. Atari cuts their employee workforce by 20% and cuts their administrative staff by 26%.

10. August 2007, Atari stock plummets more than 40% from the reverse stock split in January (worth about $5 a share in January after the reverse split) to $2.60 a share, following the typicial understanding of what happens with reverse stick splits, as their stock starts nearing the penny stock again.

11. Atari is notified that they will be removed from NASDAQ (their only presence on the US Stock market). Atari is currently appealing that decision but as far as I have read, there has been no final decision. The removal largely comes from previous warning and the fact that they filed their paperwork too late to be considered to remain on the listing.

12. They have also sold off much of their company assests in owning a few smaller businesses to try to cover losses as well.

13. As a past review, look at one of Atari's past MMO experiences, Horizons. It was a major flop and major money loser. It barely made it off the ground before it got scrapped. It had good potential at the time and had some ground breaking aspects that MMOs still lack today. Horizon's failure is not all due to Atari but they were helping to push the wrong buttons at the wrong times which greatly aided in it's collapse. They forced the game to be released way too soon. It made it only a couple months before shutting down. The only reason it survives today in skeletal shell of what it once was, is because someone else bought out the game and rereleased it awhile later. Atari knows games to an extent, but they prove that they just don't really get the nature of what MMOs are, and that they do not work the same way as the typical boxed single player style games.

Atari is in bad shape. They need help and they need to get away from Infogames, who is partly strangling them for funds due to their own financial problems.

Atari is in charge of the advertising...that is part of what they do. However with a company that it struggling financially, reporting higher losses each year, having it's parent company nearly cutting them off, cutting staff and expenses a great amount, enormously devalued stock and potential trade removal from the US....it is no wonder than any form od advertisement for DDO is basically non-existant. Atari was a giant in games in the 1980's, but today they are not anything they once were. They handle money in the range of a moderately successful medium business, yet are a "global" company trying to survive on such means. They are in trouble, and as such things like DDO will suffer for it, until they can manage to pull themselves back up. At the rate they have been going, its questionable if they can manage that, as they have been going downhill for years. They are largely relying on a name now, and for the most part the name itself is the only thing that has allowed them to even be bought out several times in hopes of saving it.

[JelloMold]

IF atari is behind the lack of advertising which is putting a strangle hold on this game making it go stagent I consender this poor means of pumping a profit or good marking and they dont care to gamble on the cost of this game then mybe we as players should come together and buy out there shares and sell them to all ddo players becomming a player owened mmo and monthy cost shared between all of us have a open session then if the player owend part profits the profit is split between the players that pay the extra 5 to 10 dollars month to be a share holder. Is this insane or a half insane idea we have the base i game with many skilled and smart people atari forgot dnd has been around for 30 years or more and the player base for ddo reflects that if the game flawed am sure I could find YOU a 100 players that know how to fix it as for turbine they doing a great job with one arm tied behind there back not there fault there partner give up on them
lunarsong

Pat, can I buy some punctuation?

[Pfamily]

And he said it all in one sentence.

[blakbyrd]

atari forgot dnd has been around for 30 years or more and the player base for ddo reflects that if the game flawed am sure I could find YOU a 100 players that know how to fix it as for turbine they doing a great job with one arm tied behind there back not there fault there partner give up on them
lunarsong

Atari knows the D&D name well. They have had their hands in it for a long time (at least the digital mediums of it). They are also part of the Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights series which is a huge success. Although the real financial success of that is not from Atari, nor do they see the majority of that success financially. Bioware gets the congrats on that part.

Also as you go up the corporate chain, we find that Atari is owned by Infogames (a failing company as many suggest), which is in turn owned by Hasbro, which also knows D&D quite well and just renegotiated the licensing rights in digital format for D&D related products through 2017, suggesting that they know the value of D&D and plan to keep it alive for quite some time, as previously the license was good through 2011. Hasbro is also quite knowledgeable in the value of D&D as well. However, these new license agreements do not mean the continued funding or success for DDO (it might be included, but it was not mentioned). They are however funding at least 2 more D&D computer gaming investments due out in the next couple of years. Again, maybe the extended interest in D&D includes DDO specifically, maybe it doesn't. The licensing however, does also include the Bioware D&D titles, as well as a new console D&D game coming out and another planned PC game as well (I dont know if they are MMOs or not, but I do not think so). However, since Bioware's licenses are also included, and the fact that Bioware is also working on a secret MMO project, it is rumored that they will be doing a D&D MMO. This is rumor of course as Bioware will not say. It is also rumored that Bioware will instead be doing a revamped StarWars MMO. Whether they do a D&D MMO or StarWars MMO or something else, no one knows yet, but they have committed to doing one finally, and Hasbro and Atari will be involved with it

[Dane_McArdy]

We don't know the exact details of the contracts with Atari and Turbine.

But Atari does own the game. They are not just distrubutors of the game. Turbine owns certain software developed for the game.

WotC and Hasbro own Dungeons and Dragons, Eberron and everything attached to that.

They have a contract with Atari for electronic liscening of the Dungeons and Dragons brand. Meaning, Atari comes up with the idea, WoTC/Hasbro approves it, and then Atari is responsible for getting the product made.

They contracted with Turbine to make and run a MMO, based on the rules of Dungeons and Dragons, using the Eberron setting. (Because WoTC, being smart, wants to advance it's new product lines).

Every single electronic version of Dungeons and Dragons will have Atari attached to it. Well, until their contract for the right to do so runs out, or Atari goes belly up.

What the full responisbility for each aspect of the game maybe, such as distrubution, advertising and so on, we won't know.

GenCon and PAX 2006 had DDO at it. But both at Atari's booth, not Turbine alone. 2007, the Atari booth didn't promote DDO. They did have Neverwinter Nights at GenCon, a Dungeons and Dragons product.

Advertising is amazingling costly. It's generally the single most exspensive aspect of a product. If a company can't afford a million dollars for office space, there certianly isn't room for a multi-million dollar advertising campaign.

If by contract, Atari is responsible for advertising DDO (And I think it is), Turbine can't just step in and do advertising for DDO, even if you think why would Atari refuse free advertising.

1. Atari could sue Turbine for breaking the contract. What better way to get some free money.

2. Turbine could claim Atari failed to uphold their end of the contract, forcing Turbine to spend money on advertising to keep DDO going, and therefor, Atari should get it's share of the money DDO brings in.

There are at least 4 different companies involved here. Turbine, Atari, WoTC and Hasbro. Turbine can't just do what they please if they are not legally responisble for it.

And legally, they can't say what their contracts are with these companies. So they can't even come here and say, "Well, Turbine isn't the company that handles advertising for DDO". Sure they didn't say Atari, but even saying that is going to set off a storm of kaa kaa.

We can speculate all we want. We will never know the truth, or the whole truth. But I seriously doubt it's anything sinister. I'm sure the truth is far more mundane and tied to stupid legal things.

Or it's the reverse vampires working with the aliens to control everything.

[blakbyrd]

As Dane eliquently puts it, the legal situations are much more complex than any of the companies are going to mention. Basically everyone has their hands tied in one way or another, expecting each other company to do their part in the whole scheme of things. Apparently along the way one (or maybe more) are slacking in their department, which effects the whole.

As I see it, financial problems of Atari aside, DDO has become a bit of a niche game, and is becoming known as such. That was certainly not the intention but that is what it is becoming. As a niche game its potential profitability lessens, but also remains maintainable. Because of that the benefits to advertising become less viable, as the return ration for money spent to money gained gets less. When you combine the fact that both Atari and Infogames are in financial hard times, it is no wonder than the apparent funding for any advertising has been nearly shut off. The best form of advertising at this point, and for any game really, is still word of mouth by the players (as they are the ones who tend to have the direct connection to other players, moreso than any magazine ad will). Still that burden is not one that should rest firmly on the customers, but it is one that cannot be ignored, and we too should help do our part if we can. If one really enjoys the game it shouldnt even be a matter of doing it, as it would tend to just happen.

However, I am not trying to place any responsibility away from Turbine or Atari. Point is, the game does need some advertising, and even if they wont, we can...it's not the same but its better than nothing.

[chemonz]

I don't think Bioware is currently involved in D&D games, since Obsidian is the company behind NWN2 and the forthcoming expansion. Bioware seems to have left D&D behind for the time being. Unless, the rumors of a Baldur's Gate 3 come to fruition which seems a looooong way off, if it ever happens.

Most people in the NWN community seem to agree that the Bioware MMORPG will not be a D&D game, but who knows for sure? It seems unlikely at the moment.

[Hendrik]

Well put Dane, to bad it will be passed over for more entertaining conspiracy theories.

One thing we do know 100% is that we don't know anything about said contract and we will never know. All the rest is just pure speculation and a bad game of connect the dots.

But just in case, ALL HAIL OUR NEW VAMPIRE ALIEN OVERLORDS!

[JelloMold]

But Dane, I pay $15 a month! Doesn't the Turbine/Atari/Vampire alien consortium owe me the rights to look through all of their corporate balance sheets, company flow charts, all legal documents, and the cell phones of all of the CEOs, CFOs, etc.?

[DSL]

Aren't Atari and Infogames the ones behind the Temple of Elemental Evil game that came out 2 years back? That was a great game at its core, but was a fiasco in that it was unplayably buggy at release, and it took 2 months for an official patch to make it playable. User-made patches were available within a week, including some very good ones, but by the time the company that released the thing came out with any sort of patch, most people who bought the game had long since finished it via 3rd party patches.

[dragnmoon]

There was a Poster on the EU Forums that stated they sent an email to Atari asking why they are not advertising DDO.

He recieved a reply stating that the game was release over a year ago and no longer has budget for advertisments.

Now I am unsure if this poster is telling the truth since I did not witness the email first hand. But if it is it would show that Atari has no clue on how to handle an ongiong MMO like DDO.

And Dane.. I will have to go back in the Dev tracker...

But I believe Turbine DID state they have no control over advertisment, That Atari Does.

[Ringlord]

Bioware is making their own MMORPG and not one based on D&D. I am looking forward to giving it a try when it comes out, but have no intention of stopping playing DDO when it does.

[Dane_McArdy]

But Dane, I pay $15 a month! Doesn't the Turbine/Atari/Vampire alien consortium owe me the rights to look through all of their corporate balance sheets, company flow charts, all legal documents, and the cell phones of all of the CEOs, CFOs, etc.?

That would cost your soul, silly!
And if you've already sold that, for say, a box of Krispy Kreme's, seems you are out of luck I would think.

People save your souls for something really valuable!

[The_Ick]

Or it's the reverse vampires working with the aliens to control everything.

I knew it!!! I am definately voting for the vampires. They are way cooler then any aliens. Although aliens do have laser guns and I like laser guns. hhhhmmmmmm...

What about Alien Vampires with laser guns. And light sabers.. Definately the best weapon of all time.

On a serious note, nice post guys. Really well thought out. As someone said I am sure the whole thing is a lot more mundane then we are imagining it to be. I just hope that this game doesn't get lost in the mix somewhere. I really think they have a great thing here and hopefully it will keep going for a while.