Offensive Fighter

[adamr09]

This was my basicly my 1st fighters build but i made it 32 pointer with more con. This build can hit HARD. especially with 2h slashing weps. with a falchion u only hav to roll a 15 to crit and the crit will do masive damage.

Level 14 Lawful Good Human Female
(14 Fighter)
Hit Points: 223
Spell Points: 0

BAB: 14/14/19/24
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 6
Will: 4

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 14)
Strength 17 24
Dexterity 14 14
Constitution 16 16
Intelligence 9 9
Wisdom 10 10
Charisma 8 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 14)
Balance 2 10
Bluff -1 -1
Concentration 3 3
Diplomacy -1 -1
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 4
Heal 0 0
Hide 2 2
Intimidate 1 1
Jump 7 24
Listen 0 0
Move Silently 2 2
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 0
Search 0 0
Spot 0 0
Swim 5 9
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

FEATS
Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting

Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting

Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Critical

Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Enahcements
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost IV
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I

[Blazer]

/looks at Will save

Pretty straightforward build but it must be tough to provide DPS to your party when you're getting held or commanded all the time.

[bandyman1]

/looks at Will save

Pretty straightforward build but it must be tough to provide DPS to your party when you're getting held or commanded all the time.

It's not that bad. The 4 is base. He didn't include any equipment.

Add the BAM helm ( +5 will, +2 Wis. ) , and greater hero, and he's at +14. Change a feat out for iron will if it bothers him that bad, and he's sitting at +16. Not too many 14th lvl pure fighters with a higher will save than that. And you don't see them getting held and commanded " all the time ".

[Blazer]

/sigh

Obviously my "all the time" comment was an exaggeration. Well, not obvious to everyone I suppose. We all know what equipment and buffs are available to boost saves, but thanks for pointing them out to us again.

[bandyman1]

/sigh

Obviously my "all the time" comment was an exaggeration. Well, not obvious to everyone I suppose. We all know what equipment and buffs are available to boost saves, but thanks for pointing them out to us again.

And my point was, leave out those buffs and equipment ( which he did BTW ), and show me many 14th lvl fighter's that have a higher will save than that.

[Averroes]

And my point was, leave out those buffs and equipment ( which he did BTW ), and show me many 14th lvl fighter's that have a higher will save than that.

Any fighter that a) spent feats on saves, b) didn't dumpstat wisdom, or c) splashed pally.

+14 with greater hero, for what it's worth, means that you'll fail most high level will saves most of the time. It's hard to have a worse will save than that.

My fighter is at +25 with greater hero...

Hmm. So's my barb, IIRC.


Builds that totally forget about saves always wind up being manasponges in my experience...

[A_Sheep]

Pretty good straightforward build there. I think you could do a bit more with your enhancements.

Human Improved Recovery is nice, but 6 AP for going from 20% to 30% more benefit (1.2 to 1.3) is waaay too expensive. I don't even think the second level is worth it. If you freed up those 10 action points, you could afford a lot of other, more worthy imo, enhancements.

I'm not a huge Hit-point promoter past 300, so I wouldn't sweat the toughness too much, but I'd really advise the haste boost. It's a bigger DPS increase than the attack boost and it's definitely better for effect weapons.

I would suggest dropping the Attack boost down one notch, dropping Improved Recovery II and III and picking up Haste Boost I-IV and extra action boost I. With 3 different boosts and 6 uses of each boost per shrine that's 360 seconds (6 minutes) of boost! (with 10 second gaps between boosts) If you can finagle just a few more AP, then you could pick up extra boost 2 and have 7 minutes of boost between shrines! Considering that shrines seem ot be less than 10 minutes apart (depending on your group speed) in endgame content, well, you can do the math.

[bandyman1]

Any fighter that a) spent feats on saves, b) didn't dumpstat wisdom, or c) splashed pally.

+14 with greater hero, for what it's worth, means that you'll fail most high level will saves most of the time. It's hard to have a worse will save than that.

My fighter is at +25 with greater hero...

Hmm. So's my barb, IIRC.


Builds that totally forget about saves always wind up being manasponges in my experience...

K. First off, in my original post I mentioned iron will.

Secondly, he starrted with a 10 Wis. That means no negatives. So IT'S NOT A DUMP STAT.

Thirdly, I said a PURE fighter. Not a MC one. That is what the OP wants to build, that is what we are discussing.

Last but not least, I have a +16 ( with GH ) will save on my 14th lvl pure fighter. The only time I get held or greater commanded is when I roll a one, or in PvP. I've ran GH elite on Zyn since it was released with no problems, and she's an intimatank, so I'm the one with all the aggro 90+% of the time.

Please learn to read the thread instead of one post before you comment.

Sincerely,
bandyman1

[Averroes]

K. First off, in my original post I mentioned iron will.

Secondly, he starrted with a 10 Wis. That means no negatives. So IT'S NOT A DUMP STAT.

Thirdly, I said a PURE fighter. Not a MC one. That is what the OP wants to build, that is what we are discussing.

Last but not least, I have a +16 ( with GH ) will save on my 14th lvl pure fighter. The only time I get held or greater commanded is when I roll a one, or in PvP. I've ran GH elite on Zyn since it was released with no problems, and she's an intimatank, so I'm the one with all the aggro 90+% of the time.

Please learn to read the thread instead of one post before you comment.

Sincerely,
bandyman1

Oh, I read your comment about iron will, and the rest of the thread for that matter. And my point remains -- two stat points at creation and one feat does not constitute a decent save.

And there's no need to be rude. I wasn't.

In your earlier post, you mention that "not too many 14th level fighters have saves better than that". Well, that's because 14th level fighters have terrible saves. The worst possible. Just because other people are doing it doesn't make it alright. And this build, by being a 14th level *human* fighter, is exacerbating an innate flaw.


As for only getting held or greater commanded when you roll a 1 (+16), well... DC is 10+spell level+casting stat modifier, so any caster capable of casting 5th level spells (even with the lowest possible casting stat) will cause you to fail saves on a 2 or higher. A PC caster is likely to have a DC of 10+7+12 (34 casting stat)+1 (item)+1 (feat)=31, so you'll fail saves on anything worse than a 15. And I know from experience that AI DCs are quite a bit higher than 17... So you're either really lucky, or not watching your combat log very carefully. I know my wizard has a will save of roughly +16, and he fails will saves all the time, so I'm guessing the latter...


Further, being a *human* fighter leaves your saves as low as they can possibly be. Only humans don't receive a racial bonus to saves against spells of some sort, so they're certainly down a point or two from any other race, but more likely 3 or 4 points.

I'm all for the OP building a pure fighter, if that's what he wants, but as fighters get no class abilities that boost saves, and humans get no racial abilities, it is probably worth considering the fact that his saves are going to be horrendous. Not everyone cares, but that's a separate argument than the one you're trying to have with me. You're asserting that a save of +14 to +16 is sufficient to save against most things, most of the time, which is simply indefensible. Unless you're running level 8 content on normal...

[bandyman1]

Oh, I read your comment about iron will, and the rest of the thread for that matter. And my point remains -- two stat points at creation and one feat does not constitute a decent save.

And there's no need to be rude. I wasn't.

In your earlier post, you mention that "not too many 14th level fighters have saves better than that". Well, that's because 14th level fighters have terrible saves. The worst possible. Just because other people are doing it doesn't make it alright. And this build, by being a 14th level *human* fighter, is exacerbating an innate flaw.


As for only getting held or greater commanded when you roll a 1 (+16), well... DC is 10+spell level+casting stat modifier, so any caster capable of casting 5th level spells (even with the lowest possible casting stat) will cause you to fail saves on a 2 or higher. A PC caster is likely to have a DC of 10+7+12 (34 casting stat)+1 (item)+1 (feat)=31, so you'll fail saves on anything worse than a 15. And I know from experience that AI DCs are quite a bit higher than 17... So you're either really lucky, or not watching your combat log very carefully. I know my wizard has a will save of roughly +16, and he fails will saves all the time, so I'm guessing the latter...


Further, being a *human* fighter leaves your saves as low as they can possibly be. Only humans don't receive a racial bonus to saves against spells of some sort, so they're certainly down a point or two from any other race, but more likely 3 or 4 points.

I'm all for the OP building a pure fighter, if that's what he wants, but as fighters get no class abilities that boost saves, and humans get no racial abilities, it is probably worth considering the fact that his saves are going to be horrendous. Not everyone cares, but that's a separate argument than the one you're trying to have with me. You're asserting that a save of +14 to +16 is sufficient to save against most things, most of the time, which is simply indefensible. Unless you're running level 8 content on normal...

And I'm saying that I run GH elite, have a +16 will save with GH, and don't have a problem, other than PvP. And I'm also saying that very few pure fighters of ANY race, start with better than a 10 Wis.

* shrugs *

Note: Now I will add that Zyndris is a drow, so that will give her a +2 vs. any enchantment ( which would basicly include everything we are talking about here ), but I honestly don't see it making THAT big of a difference.

[Roguewiz]

Unless you are
1. a caster
2. a Paladin, or MC Paladin

1 or 2 of your saves will be subpar. Some classes have more than 1 "good" save. For example, Clerics have Fort and Will as their good save, Monks have all of them as their good save. The remaining classes have 1 of the saves as their "good" save.

The best way to help out with saves is via gear and buffs. Feats are good, but with the limitation of the # of feats we are able to aquire (not counting fighters), gear/buffs is the best option.

Of course, you can always go Warforged and be immune to alot of stuff

Toaster power!

[adamr09]

lol well ya WF are great tanks and are immune to many things but i hav a 14 cleric and i personally dont like wen ther are wf too much. so i prolly dont plan on making one. prolly wudnt make it a halfling. maybe an elf but most likely not. if i wud change the class i wud make it dwarven. but the main reason i made it human is because of the bonus feat and the Human Adaptibilitys. and YES, i hav noticed the saves. but with items and buffs i shud be able to make at least half of the rolls. i know that isnt great. lol as i thought of it it looks like a kamakazi build. but i hav alredy rolled her and she is lvl 11. she manages just fine so far.

[Aspenor]

I am offended.

That is all.

[Blazer]

What doesn't offend you Asp?

[Roguewiz]

I am offended.

That is all.

I find Fighters offensive also. They are always sweaty and loud. Swing 1st, swing some more, and when all the blood hits the ground, ask questions.

The only thing more offensive than a fighter, is a Halfling that hasn't washed his feet in a year.

[Emili]

Any fighter that a) spent feats on saves, b) didn't dumpstat wisdom, or c) splashed pally.

+14 with greater hero, for what it's worth, means that you'll fail most high level will saves most of the time. It's hard to have a worse will save than that.

My fighter is at +25 with greater hero...

Hmm. So's my barb, IIRC.


Builds that totally forget about saves always wind up being manasponges in my experience...

Turbine has to allow for pure classes ... that's just the way it is.

To get a 25 will save you're most likely a pally or even cleric spalsh not a pure. Typically fighters hover around 10 or 12 base will topping off at 16 to 18... add in resist item/feats and you have reasonable saves on a pure. To suggest every human melee splash pally is ridiculas as considering above a 12 in wisdom on any melee to me means you're letting dex, fort or worse str suffer in it's place. To suggest human as a non-viable race for melee perposterous. Your suggestion tends to lend itself that all races cept dwarf or drow should splash pally.

I'm not saying that will is unimportant... my pure fighters have 16 will before buff and never had a problem in elite GH with anything at all and I'd likey say that a will of 12 is even viable (as I seen people do just fine with that)... then again it comes down to the way you play more than anything. A balance of saves with a high dps works fine in GH elite. Splashing is nice but will one day shortcome the feat chains, and if you're intent on using the enhancements as a crutch I suggest you think otherwise.

The base saves ate level 14 are as follows:
+8 +4 +4 <- Fighter/Barbarian/Pally
+4 +8 +8 <- Bard
+8 +4 +8 <- Cleric
+8 +8 +4 <- Ranger
+4 +8 +4 <- Rogue
+4 +4 +8 <- Sorcerer/Wizard

As you can see Bard's and rangers have the best overall base ... and of course Pally gets divine grace at level 2. Enhancement lines skew things quite a bit but Turbine steps on thin ice with these as they're on the cuspe of breaking a D20 by allowing splash and race to modify the number as great as +5 (1/4 of the rolls), Allowing for overkill of the number. This comes down to keeping things at a mean or the pures and or certain races eventualy fall off the useful line. I cannot see Turbine doing that.

[Emili]

lol well ya WF are great tanks and are immune to many things but i hav a 14 cleric and i personally dont like wen ther are wf too much. so i prolly dont plan on making one. prolly wudnt make it a halfling. maybe an elf but most likely not. if i wud change the class i wud make it dwarven. but the main reason i made it human is because of the bonus feat and the Human Adaptibilitys. and YES, i hav noticed the saves. but with items and buffs i shud be able to make at least half of the rolls. i know that isnt great. lol as i thought of it it looks like a kamakazi build. but i hav alredy rolled her and she is lvl 11. she manages just fine so far.

And she will manage just fine...