You've got the wrong idea!

[nbhs275]

Problem is, what you read is not what was said.

Really, I think what you want is 'Godmode'. Invulnerability and one-hit kills. These are NOT good for the game.

You might like Diablo II.





What?
I'm just sayin.

I liked Diablo...but it was just a big endless power loop. I like the challenge you can get in DDO. Diablo was just a giant power trip.

[Cyr]

Dingo, the arguments against your posts are simple and not from mediocre minds (at least not many of them). There is no reason to post another thread every couple of days, particularly when they are of a frivolous nature ie arguing about why you were right about another thread you posted or the whole free healing gimic in the first place. It seems frivolous to me to post in the devs forums something that has far less of a chance of ever seeing implementation then we are of never seeing another late update .

[blakbyrd]

Dingo,

As I see it, and this is not just a personal view, its a view on the basis of what D&D is. Most of the points you have brought up in previous threads go against the very nature of D&D. I do not see it as simply being an instance where it may benefit one person and make it too easy on another. It's simply a matter of what D&D is and how it was designed to work for decades. Although DDO is not a direct interpretation of the D&D rules, it comes close in many ways, and Turbine continues to try to alter things as best they can to further emulate the core rules of D&D. Your suggestions have all been in a direction to cause DDO to stray even farther away from D&D then getting more back in line with it, which seems to go against what the game is, and what Turbine is continually trying to do (although slow at times).

It is not that your suggestions are not viable, they just don't work for D&D. They are perferctly valid for many other MMOs because they are not based upong a ruleset that has been proven and developed for decades, and that is a constraining situation for Turbine, where most other MMOs can do whatever they want with no previous basis to be held to.

[Varis]

whoa, there is an abreviation for "point of view" now?

ur PoVs QFT m8!!

heh, why don't we all start to communicate in code.
heh, wdwastcic

twwdhttma tmalos, omg imsmstIwc

hey, perhaps we can find a way to abreviate this too!

£ ç, omg ~

and we can reduce that to:


yay, I'm so smart! This will save bandwith and make it far faster to read!

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Patience, I have one request. If you are going to continue to clean up the forums (which, don't get me wrong, is a good thing) can you do something about your posts appearing on the dev tracker when you are not just trying to keep people inline. We had the same problem with Quarion until Kommunity Kobold appeared to save the day.

Hey have you noticed that Q and KK are never around at the same time? Every time something is going on Q disappears and KK appears...Hmm...I'd think they were the same person but Q wears glasses and KK doesn't...

[Missing_Minds]

Hey have you noticed that Q and KK are never around at the same time? Every time something is going on Q disappears and KK appears...Hmm...I'd think they were the same person but Q wears glasses and KK doesn't...

*thinks of a kobold in glasses... then puts said kobold in a leasure suit... then hands it a pipe*

Master Lizard Theater?

[Shamguard]

to a certain point, i think people need to realize that if you dont have anything nice to say then dont say it at all

i see alot of people just troll into threads and leave a piece of their mind in their and its not helpful, or does it help the thread at all

more and more, its just all about the person replying, people come into threads, say what they want and leave, no one realizes it was a idea/thought from the OP

simply because everyone thinks they are right 100% of the time, and knows 99% of all facts about this game

for example, someone comes to post about how hard it is to play a cleric, and how poor they are, and they are always using tons of scrolls
~~~and the reply to this will more likely be, you SUCK as a cleric, just quit the game, or a good cleric dont use scrolls, a crappy cleric does, or play my way...cause its the only way this game is meant to be played

but anytime someone posts on this forum, they should be prepared to face criticism, because its all that people do here, is talk trash about ones post/ideas/thoughts/rant/informers

QFT!

-Meghan (just deleted more posts)

Patience,
I think you have the rigth idea you are just deleting the wrong posts. You have a poster who continualy is starting threads that by their very nature are inciting people to flame them. At first I though it was just innocent posting of naive ideas, but this post has now established a history of this to the point I don't belive he is that naive.
I belive that this thread is even more proof that he is not naive and is just trying to incite people to flame him and I also belive if this is true this is also aginst your forum useage policies and just be treated just like any of the other threads and posts you have deleated/punished.

Just my opinion.

[Spookydodger]

What I read when I saw that was "It would make the game too easy.... for me."

Here you go:

The ability to freely heal would create an escalation to the Mob versus Player arms race. We would have more hitpoints available and this would be taken into account, turning a battle into even more of a yoyo-hitpoints match than currently.

This would disenfranchise players (among whom I am not one) who are not able to play hitpoint "whack-a-mole" due to either sub-optimal lag, keyboard/mouse configuration, or hand/eye coordination. Thusly excluding them from roles such as clerics or other healing classes even more so than many people already are.

This would have a deleterious effect on the healer population in the long run, while providing little positive effect for "efficient-play" or for the caster population in general. People will still not want to play clerics that much not because mana is a major issue, but because it is taxing to be responsible for other people's welfare. Free mana would not really rectify this, as far as this observer is able to tell.

How about that? Better formatting?

[Dingo123]

This thread wasn't even about me.. I even made a point to say I was guilty of the same thing. How can I be guilty of disagreeing with myself?

What I was saying was that people look at the small picture rather than the big picture.

Much like virtually everyone here honed in directly on me, rather than the forums at large.

People used this (again) as an excuse to attack me as a person, rather than discuss the frequently prevailing attitudes within the forums.

People went so far as to say to the effect that I was "conspiring" to promote people to flame me when I was calling out for more civil and open minded discussion. I mean how backwards and twisted is that? I'm no MLK, but that's like saying Martin Luther King got up on his pedestal in the hopes of getting shot, rather than pursue the civil liberties of all men and women. It's just warped.

That's the sort of thing I read here. I see people making wild assumptions about my character and talk about it like fact as an effort to discredit me (I don't want god mode, never said I did. And nothing I've said suggests I did. Even with all the free healing in the world people would still die. Further, in Fourth Editions Clerics GET free Healing. Are THEY giving Clerics God Mode? *sigh)


But again, I didn't make this post about me but people launch their attacks regardless.

[Dirac]

So, what I gather from this thread is that everyone agrees with the principle Dingo originally raised: that one should not argue what is best for them, but should take into account what is best for the game as a whole.

With the caveat that it is our experiences that are our data about the game and can be considered as such, why don't we just agree to agree on the above point and move on from there?

[Dingo123]

So, what I gather from this thread is that everyone agrees with the principle Dingo originally raised: that one should not argue what is best for them, but should take into account what is best for the game as a whole.

With the caveat that it is our experiences that are our data about the game and can be considered as such, why don't we just agree to agree on the above point and move on from there?

And that's the point I was trying to make to begin with. There's absolutely nothing inflammtory about that at all.

[Staedtler]

I believe that for every post along the lines of "...makes the game easy for me" there were several more "...and that's why this would imbalance the game as a whole." Such as the one four above this post which was handily ignored...

As for macroscopic views... try reading the whole thread instead of picking and choosing what you base your complaints on.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

And that's the point I was trying to make to begin with. There's absolutely nothing inflammtory about that at all.

Dingo this was the first of your posts that made me thing you weren't being deliberately inflamitory. We all agree with your basic premise that we should all try to see the game as a whole, and not just our own self interest. We also all agree that is a bit contrary to human nature and thus hard for us all to do. I'll add to that once you start thinking "A" is an idiot even if "A" posts a great idea there is a tendancy to pounce on it and pick it appart.

However, the way you did this post is what set people off. You used yourself and how your ideas were treated as an example of how others were being close minded. You even admitted that you were misquoting them to make your point. You ask why people made the thread about you, but you started it by making it about you and about how others are closed to your ideas.

It would have been a more powerful message had you sited as example a case when you made the mistake of being close minded (which you nicely admitted you like of of us do).

[Missing_Minds]

And that's the point I was trying to make to begin with. There's absolutely nothing inflammtory about that at all.

Your opinions have merit just as much as any one else, however, most do not appear to have the feel of the game, nor the bases on which the game is conceived in mind. They seem to want to bring in traits from the other MMOs you have played and turn it into them. That was the appeal to me to DDO. It is NOT like every other MMO.

While 4th ed (still in revisions) may end up giving clerics free healing, as of this moment the current rule set is a DDO house ruled 3.5 edition. This is the world we choose to play in. No one is forcing us to play here if we do not like it.

And yes, you can be guilty of disagreeing with yourself. Normally it is called "changing one's mind."

In ending, Dingo, spend a little more time thinking on your ideas and more importantly presentation and you will generate less hate than a Xoriat. (of which you seem to be trying to out do.)

[teddok]

In ending, Dingo, spend a little more time thinking on your ideas and more importantly presentation and you will generate less hate than a Xoriat. (of which you seem to be trying to out do.)

Ohh my god that is going in my Sig

[Shamguard]

This thread wasn't even about me.. I even made a point to say I was guilty of the same thing. How can I be guilty of disagreeing with myself?

What I was saying was that people look at the small picture rather than the big picture.

Much like virtually everyone here honed in directly on me, rather than the forums at large.

People used this (again) as an excuse to attack me as a person, rather than discuss the frequently prevailing attitudes within the forums.

People went so far as to say to the effect that I was "conspiring" to promote people to flame me when I was calling out for more civil and open minded discussion. I mean how backwards and twisted is that? I'm no MLK, but that's like saying Martin Luther King got up on his pedestal in the hopes of getting shot, rather than pursue the civil liberties of all men and women. It's just warped.

That's the sort of thing I read here. I see people making wild assumptions about my character and talk about it like fact as an effort to discredit me (I don't want god mode, never said I did. And nothing I've said suggests I did. Even with all the free healing in the world people would still die. Further, in Fourth Editions Clerics GET free Healing. Are THEY giving Clerics God Mode? *sigh)


But again, I didn't make this post about me but people launch their attacks regardless.

Dingo,
You made this about you just by creating this thread in the the wrong forum area to begin with. This thread has nothing to do with game development and everything to do with how picked on you feel.

You are in a public forum. People are by nature cruel and abusive, all the best humor is based on cruelty. We find it funny to see someone else get hurt. Just keep this in mind when you post an idea. Some people will give you a gentle push and tell you what they don't like about your idea. Others will knock you to the ground and yell in your face, while others laugh. That is life in the forum jungle, get use to it or get out.

Just remeber what the Mel Brook's "2 milioin year old man" had to say about humor and tragedy:
"Humor is: you see a man walking down the street and he falls in to an open manhole and dies. That's funny, that's humor. Tragedy is when I get a little paper cut right under my finger nail."

[Trivilus]

In addition to someone else stating to think out your suggestions a bit more dingo. I would suggest you also play a class you are suggesting to change somehow before you make said suggestion. Dont take what other people are telling you and try and come up with a viable solution, most of the time it wont work because you do not understand the mechanics of that class.

You said you dont play a cleric, I have a lvl 14 and can tell you I usually have plenty of mana left by the time i get to any shrine even in a PUG. I might use a wand in a 4 hour session online, and rarely use scrolls unless I am playing the only cleric in a full Reaver raid (which is a challenge

Free healing would be a horrible addition to this game, if you dont believe what everyone is posting make a cleric and lvl him up. I think you will come back here and understand what we mean when you get to lvl 14.

As others have said, by all means keep posting ideas. Just try and think them out a little bit before you post them. You stated you arent trying to cause flames, well prove it next post. Make a suggestion after you have fully thought it out and I mean from every angle as you suggested, not just your own. I think you would find much friendlier responses if you did that.

Btw, didnt mean any of that in a negative way to you dingo, just trying to give you some constructive critisism to help you out.

[In_Like_Flynn]

I for one welcome our new Dingo overlords.

[DSL]

I am willing to give Dingo the benefit of the doubt and say that he does honestly want to improve the game.

However, it cannot be ignored that all his suggestions are in fact about some way to make the game easier, either directly or indirectly. The problem with this is that while a game designer (or a DM) can, within reason, be somewhat adventurous with changes that make a game harder, they must be far more cautious with any changes that make the players in any way stronger. If the former change proves too much, few will complain when it is scaled back, but if the latter proves unbalancing, then reversing it causes a massive outcry.

Any change in the players' favor must be very carefully considered, and after a year and a half of exchanging ideas, with more than a little trial and error, the dev's have struggled to establish a fairly balanced game (whether they have succeeded or not is, I suppose, subjective).

While I have seen many suggestions thrown around in these forums that were almost certainly bad ideas, I have seen more than a few others actually published in official rulebooks. Unfortunately, Dingo has become a prominent target of mockery lately, some moderately good-natured, some much less so. It has reached the point where many will simply show a knee-jerk dismissal of anything the OP says.

To those whose civility is strained, I would suggest that if they can't keep their posts rational, they simply use the /ignore option. To Dingo, I would suggest that in order to help yourself be taken more seriously, remove your sig: it smacks of arrogance, and few things will as readily earn the mockery and disdain of your peers.

[DSL]

whoa, there is an abreviation for "point of view" now?

ur PoVs QFT m8!!

POV as an abbreviation for Point-of-view is rather old, and has been common for at least a few decades in film and TV production, used with respect to notes about camera positioning. As forum abbreviations go, this one seems fairly innocuous, and nowhere near as obnoxious as some of the over-condensed lingo I've seen kicking around.