Suggestion to Fix Beholders

[Ithrani]

Everyone who says that this game and PnP are not helping the real point of this thread. This is about beholders being fixed to be more like their PnP counter parts. So please leave your meaningless posts out of it. I can't stand seeing that in every thread that involves fixing something to be closer to PnP rules. It isn't even a valid opinion since none of you back it up with anything.

[Nerate_Mireth]

Let's put it this way....In MM and Lords of Madness: The Book of Abberations they use terms for Beholder Eye Beams such as "SPELL-LIKE" and "Supernatural". They are treated like spells for damage purposes but are not spells but rather abilities generated by the Beholders themselves. In the Eberron setting, Beholders come from Xoriat, The Plane of Madness. A place were "the rules" don't always apply and even when they do they get twisted.

As it says in the description in the MM for Beholders.....
"Each eye's effect resembles a spell cast cast by a 13th level sorcerer but follows the rules for a ray. All rays have a range of 150' and a save DC of 18"

Just be greatful that they don't put Daelkyr in the game. They make Beholders look like scared kobolds!

[Bizbag]

As it says in the description in the MM for Beholders.....
"Each eye's effect resembles a spell cast cast by a 13th level sorcerer but follows the rules for a ray. All rays have a range of 150' and a save DC of 18"

I understand your argument here, but unfortunately you're wrong. The first line of the SRD entry for Antimagic linked in my first post reads "No supernatural ability, spell-like ability, or spell works in an area of antimagic (but extraordinary abilities still work)."

(Emphasis mine).

So Antimagic should still suppress it.

[Nerate_Mireth]

And I will say it again....this is Eberron. There are ALOT of things in the Eberron sourcebooks that contradict things in the core books. If this were Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms it might be another story.

"Beholders are hateful and aggresive in their relations with all other creatures. Ironically, it is towards other beholders that this hatred is strongest."

"A beholder's typical reaction to encountering another beholder is rage. If possible, the beholder directs its minions to attack the other beholder and kill it."

This being the case, why, in Von 3, do we have 6 or more beholders in a small area? They should, by these statements, kill each other off and leave only 1 for the party to fight. A contradiction based on Xoriat The Realm of Madness.

But never mind that. Beholders are easy to kill if you use tactics and not charge in zerging all the way. I've solo'd the aforementioned area in Von3 with my Wiz while the rest of the party stayed back. Tactics and Patience. Nothing more.

[Ashet]

It isn't a matter of "making easier," it's a matter of "beholders are currently functioning 100% differently than they do in PnP."

If a beholder wants to be able to use its eye beams, it has to pluck out its antimagic field eye first.

This is nonsensical. Read the description of globe of invulnerability, and you will see that the caster can cast any spells out of the globe.

I don't see the problem here. We need new content in the game, not fixes to stuff that is working. Beholders are supposed to be tough after all

[underlordone]

I do say I would like to see the mobs do what there supose to do rather then what there not. If they can cast in there field lets us.

Game no to easy. But if u have the high end gear dose help :P.

[Ithrani]

Thats all I want, make beholders do a real antimagic cone, and give dogs wolves and trolls scent, I just want this game to be closer to what it is based on.

[TreknaQudane]

Along that logic.. paladins should lose their save bonuses in anti magic, since its a supernatural ability

[Deaths_ward]

It isn't a matter of "making easier," it's a matter of "beholders are currently functioning 100% differently than they do in PnP."

If a beholder wants to be able to use its eye beams, it has to pluck out its antimagic field eye first.

No it just needs to close the central eye. They've always been able to open and close their central eye so that they could strike creatures in front of them with their rays, and spell effects.

[Deaths_ward]

Let's put it this way....In MM and Lords of Madness: The Book of Abberations they use terms for Beholder Eye Beams such as "SPELL-LIKE" and "Supernatural". They are treated like spells for damage purposes but are not spells but rather abilities generated by the Beholders themselves. In the Eberron setting, Beholders come from Xoriat, The Plane of Madness. A place were "the rules" don't always apply and even when they do they get twisted.

As it says in the description in the MM for Beholders.....
"Each eye's effect resembles a spell cast cast by a 13th level sorcerer but follows the rules for a ray. All rays have a range of 150' and a save DC of 18"

Just be greatful that they don't put Daelkyr in the game. They make Beholders look like scared kobolds!

Actually considering we have Beyshk weapons already, it's only a matter of time until we see the Daelkyr. That would be a fun raid.

[Sue_Dark]

One word..... Enlarge

Second word... Feeblemind

Third a phrase... Flesh to Stone

Yes, the anti-magic will still wipe your buffs, but if you knew there was a 'holder there, you really shouldnt have wasted the juice anyway. With the feeblemind up he wont be casting anytime soon and the FtS just (kinda) holds em still. Enlarge (for me at least) allows me to hit them from waaaaaay outside their own range I love how they presently function.

Would I like seeing the anti-magic supress instead of dispell, sure. But, I dont think it enough of a problem that it should be worried over.

Ahh, yes, VoN 3, L10-ish... enlarge is available, FtS/Feeble not so much... However, web is a fine thing, hold monster, CK, PK, firewall... the list goes on and on

[MtnLion]

It seems to be more of a field than a cone.

It has always appeared to me to be a cone, when the beholder looks at the target (me) is when it is effective, however, it appears to be a lingering effect, that does not dissipate for several seconds (I think about 3) after he has looked away.

[MtnLion]

I understand your argument here, but unfortunately you're wrong. The first line of the SRD entry for Antimagic linked in my first post reads "No supernatural ability, spell-like ability, or spell works in an area of antimagic (but extraordinary abilities still work)."

(Emphasis mine).

So Antimagic should still suppress it.

Hmm, a thought, here, wouldn't the magic weapons (shield and armor) also be affected? the +5 become a masterwork, with no elemental or special effects?

[Perceval418]

If anyone thinks that this game should not fit PnP when it can then please go play a game with a different name. DDO is a DnD game and should follow those rules as closely as possible unless there is programing issues or combat changes

The problem is that in PnP DnD, imagine how long it would take to run waterworks. In DDO, you can have a level 2/3 fighter or barb with minimal equipment and solo the thing in an hour. I ran it on my level 6 sorc in like 20 mins.

In PnP you play with a small group of people, loot is more scarce and you dont have 1000 other players to trade with and buy from (not even considering the AH here). So what would take you many night-long sessions in PnP to accomplish takes a few hours in DDO.

How long does it take to level to 4 in PnP? I know it takes me 30 minutes to hit level 2, another hour for 3, and another 1 and 1/2 for 4. So in 3 hours i can hit level four if the groups are right and i dont diddle around.

Would people play a MMO that took forever to gain levels in, where the loot was lame and boring, and the game was perpetually challenging? Maybe a small group would play, but Turbine would lose most of thier players if they did that. Ultima Online did that, the server was hardly populated but people still played.

And this is all static code. There is no real DM to make decisions about close calls, make exceptions, give boons. Its always the same. Same monsters, same place, same difficulty, same chance of living, dieing, looting and xping.

What im more for (and im sure this has been discussed) is a server where loot levels are decreased, leveling is harder, and teamwork and tactics are therefore encouraged. Then, if thats what you wanted, you could play that. I for one would play both servers, cause i think it would be fun, but i wouldnt want that all the time. No AH on those servers either, and everything is bind on equip so no trading or buying uber items. Its all about the luck of the dice and your wits then.