Suggestion to Fix Beholders

[Mercules]

This is a change I would happily get behind.

Huh? Clerics unlimited SPs(never going to live that one down), XP potions(um... what?), and true to PnP rules? Remember Sesame Street? "One of these things is not like the other... one of these things just doesn't belong..."

[GeneralDiomedes]

Agreed, along with Armor and other items like that +5 Ogre Power Bracers and +4 Resistance Cloak.

And Silver Flame trinket .. and Beholder Optics ..

[Mercules]

And Silver Flame trinket .. and Beholder Optics ..

What? Beholders become scary when PnP rules are actually followed in total? No... way!

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I understand what you are saying and sure it would be nice to keep my buffs after encounters with beholders but it just doesnt seem to accomplish alot by making the change. As it stands now, the range on your spells is just slightly longer than the range of his antimagic field, at least it is on a sorc without enlarge. Try standing a little further away from them, or use tactics and ask your melees to turn the beholder so it isnt facing you. You can cast spells, you just have to stand in a different spot to do so.

Most people don't understand tactics (except for the one named "Charge")
i just two manned Invaders with my Wiz and a Rgr. My Wiz died four times, but it wasn't due to the beholders......tactics go a long way in some of these quests.......and If i had been slightly more familiar with the quest, I think I could have done it without dying.....learned a little as we went along.

[GeneralDiomedes]

What? Beholders become scary when PnP rules are actually followed in total? No... way!

Well if I understand the PnP description .. if a Beholder cannot suppress magic and beam someone at the same time, then they sound like they would be kind of trivial in DDO given the massive number of buffs we can apply.

Sounds like they would have to structure the encounters differently, i.e. include lots of dangerous melee cohorts to attack those in the anti-magic field.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Yes, I ran VON3 on elite back when the cap was 10 also. If you read my post, I said it "can" be a nightmare, not "is". No one mentioned anything about making it a top priority issue, but that doesn't mean there's no reason to ever bring it up. There have been several things that were working as the Devs intended at first, then changed later, like Evasion. There are many things that I'd like to see changed, such as the Perform skill for bards. They may not be high priorities, but the same can be said for the majority of the WDA.

Back when the lvl cap was 10, you just used enlarge and cloudkill.....not so tuff.
It's tougher now, except that most people doing it are lvl 14 and rerunning it for the 50th time.

[The_Cataclysm]

Back when the lvl cap was 10, you just used enlarge and cloudkill.....not so tuff.
It's tougher now, except that most people doing it are lvl 14 and rerunning it for the 50th time.

Not everyone used cloudkill to do every quest.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

The only real bad thing about Beholders in my opinion is how they can spam their eye beams. Other than that they are manageable for the most part unless you and your group has a bad day.

yeah...this bothers me.....not only on beholders.....the monsters need to play by the same rules we do.......I can't cast multiple disintegrates, so neither should they.....I also can't hit someone three times in one attack animation like some creatures in this game can too......and now some of them can run faster than us with haste.....not sure what the reasoning for that is. Monsters should not cheat the rules....and yes I know there has to be a way to make things challenging, but just some minor AI tweaks (minor in theory anyway) could go a long way.....without cheating.
My favorite is Cloudkill agro......the AI should be "Get out of the deadly cloud that is killing you!" Not be granted immediate insight as to where and who just cast this cloud on you so you can go down the hall around the corner and wack on him.
But I guess this is getting off-topic.

[Mercules]

Well if I understand the PnP description .. if a Beholder cannot suppress magic and beam someone at the same time, then they sound like they would be kind of trivial in DDO given the massive number of buffs we can apply.

Sounds like they would have to structure the encounters differently, i.e. include lots of dangerous melee cohorts to attack those in the anti-magic field.

Beholders in D&D can melee and have the jaws for it. They can turn their cone to the side for a moment and shoot a beam or three at you, yes our buffs come back on, but a Beholder with some pet Rust Monsters or a tribe of orc/bugbears following them can ruin your day, just as you supposed. Anyone stepping outside the anti-magic cone is going to get beamed and anyone in is likely to get bitten once the Beholder is close enough. A ranged combat expert backed up by a caster would be the best combo for taking out a Beholder. Cone on them keeps the caster from affecting him, but the ranged hurts him. Move the cone to attack the ranged with a beam and the Caster gets a shot.

[Arlith]

As everyone knows, Beholders are very frustrating to fight, as they have a nasty tendency to first dispel all your buffs, then hit you with everything they've got while you're vulnerable. I've got a few ideas that would fix beholders, and none of them would require new technology on the developer's part - it would just require applying them to beholders.

Or we could just replace all the beholders in the game with runty kobolds. Of course those things could be nasty, so lets tie one arm behind their back and cut their hp in half.

Beholders are, well, beholders. They are SUPPOSED to be frustrating!

[ebt-dnd]

What I'd like to see is if a beholder turns me to stone, that their anti-magic beam removes it just like dispel magic can...

[Tanka]

What I'd like to see is if a beholder turns me to stone, that their anti-magic beam removes it just like dispel magic can...

It can.

[BlueLightBandit]

Oh i understand now. We want Turbine to nerf beholders because the players suck.
I fully support the change now after thinking it through.

Be constructive or be quiet. I would rather run with a player that sucks but is willing to learn, than one who is spiteful and angry for no reason.

As it stands, the beholders abilities do not make sense, as they can both cast and prevent casting at the same time. I don't know if it's supression or dispelling, but it's annoying as all get out.

[Josh]

Forgive me for misunderstanding. I for one do not feel i am cheated ANY time i fight a beholder let alone every time.
I can give you a list of things that are "currently functioning 100% differently than they do in PnP." Do you suggest all these things are fixed too ?
This isnt PnP , it never was, and it never will be.

YES.

[PhoenixFire31]

As everyone knows, Beholders are very frustrating to fight, as they have a nasty tendency to first dispel all your buffs, then hit you with everything they've got while you're vulnerable. I've got a few ideas that would fix beholders, and none of them would require new technology on the developer's part - it would just require applying them to beholders.

1. Beholder's Antimagic Field dispelling buffs.

SRD Link on Antimagic

Antimagic is supposed to suppress, not dispel it. The technology to suppress buffs already exists with the Globe of Invulnerability spell.

In this case, the developers would simply have to apply the same technology to a beholder's antimagic - as long as a character has the "Antimagic Field" effect on, his buffs are suppressed, but when the field wears off, the buffs return.

I do not have the time to read through every post at the moment but I will say this.

I brought this up to a dev once and was told the reason they are a debuff and not surpress is because if they do a suppress (to bring it in line with rules) than your weapon/armor/items need to be similarly effected (as per the rules) and that would just plain suck.

So take your pick....debuff you or suppress ALL of your gear.

I'll take the debuff personally.

[Crabo]

Back when the lvl cap was 10, you just used enlarge and cloudkill.....not so tuff.
It's tougher now, except that most people doing it are lvl 14 and rerunning it for the 50th time.

Not everyone exploited cloudkill you know ?
The men would go in and deal with the beholders while the women gathered food for the long trip to the plane of night.

Its not tougher at all now. Now they cant shoot through walls. Now we have a thing called greater restore to remove multiple neg levels. Now we have beholder optic nerves, some of us multiple sets. All these things, plus probably some others i havent even thought about make encounters with beholders a joke. They should seriously think about making all those beholders in von3 have the same hp as the named one at the end. Then we are moving in the right direction.

[Crabo]

Be constructive or be quiet. I would rather run with a player that sucks but is willing to learn, than one who is spiteful and angry for no reason.

As it stands, the beholders abilities do not make sense, as they can both cast and prevent casting at the same time. I don't know if it's supression or dispelling, but it's annoying as all get out.

Crabo has zero diplomacy so dont be expecting me to sugar coat it for you.
But as far as i am concerned that is probably the most constructive thing i have seen in the thread. Many players have already left the game through lack of challenge. Every day the quality of your average pug drops a little further. If no tactics are needed, no tactics are used, it saves time.

Bring back the need for tactics, dont make changes to the game to eliminate the need for tactics.

[Arlith]

As it stands, the beholders abilities do not make sense, as they can both cast and prevent casting at the same time. I don't know if it's supression or dispelling, but it's annoying as all get out.

I don't see how. You get the fighters to run in, turn the beholder's big eye from the caster, IF your caster can get there before the fighters chew him to bits the beholder can be held, danced, PKed, FoDed, or whatever other goodies you have in store for him.

Of course from time to time, there is nothing more fun than spell resistance, deathblock, an anarchic burst weapon(s) and a good zerg!

Just remember the following:

Proper Preparation Prevents **** Poor Play

[Lorien_the_First_One]

QUOTE=PhoenixFire31;1330715]I brought this up to a dev once and was told the reason they are a debuff and not surpress is because if they do a suppress (to bring it in line with rules) than your weapon/armor/items need to be similarly effected (as per the rules) and that would just plain suck.

So take your pick....debuff you or suppress ALL of your gear.

I'll take the debuff personally.[/QUOTE]

I'll take the suppress please That's what makes beholders so interesting...it looks at you and starts chewing and all you can do is smack it in the head with your plain 'ol sword.

...Until the mage now standing behind it hits it with a nasty dd spell....

Beholders in PnP are all strategy, here they are 90% luck.

[HFGfeather]

I don't see how. You get the fighters to run in, turn the beholder's big eye from the caster, IF your caster can get there before the fighters chew him to bits the beholder can be held, danced, PKed, FoDed, or whatever other goodies you have in store for him.

Of course from time to time, there is nothing more fun than spell resistance, deathblock, an anarchic burst weapon(s) and a good zerg!

I think Arlith is on the right track I mean you haven't lived till you have seen a Feeblemind Beholder. Mind Fog or Feeblemind anyone? I was told it is pretty funny. FoD and PK are as effective as CK it is just a matter of what you have on board. So we have to put the buffs back on. Big mana drain an extra shrine would help in such cases. Why bother changing the Beholder. He is big and ugly and I for one like him that way.

Wizards should not be afraid of monsters becasue they are dead.
Azari