Suggestion to Fix Beholders

[Bizbag]

As everyone knows, Beholders are very frustrating to fight, as they have a nasty tendency to first dispel all your buffs, then hit you with everything they've got while you're vulnerable. I've got a few ideas that would fix beholders, and none of them would require new technology on the developer's part - it would just require applying them to beholders.

1. Beholder's Antimagic Field dispelling buffs.

SRD Link on Antimagic

Antimagic is supposed to suppress, not dispel it. The technology to suppress buffs already exists with the Globe of Invulnerability spell.

In this case, the developers would simply have to apply the same technology to a beholder's antimagic - as long as a character has the "Antimagic Field" effect on, his buffs are suppressed, but when the field wears off, the buffs return.

2. Beholder's Rays striking a character under the effects of Antimagic.

A Beholder should not be able to strike a character under the effects of Antimagic - they're in the field, so spells, spell-like abilities (such as the beholder's rays) and supernatural abilities should be suppressed. The technology to make a character immune specifically to a Beholder's spells exists via the Beholder Optic Nerve.

In this case, the developers would simply need to make a Beholder's Antimagic Field "buff" provide immunity to a beholder's rays.

Thoughts? These are just rough ideas, but it would make fighting Beholders less of a frustrating experience. Keep in mind I am not whining because I think beholders are too hard, as beholder-hunting with my cleric in von2 and 3 is a favorite pastime of mine, but I think these changes would make beholders a much better foe - you won't feel like you're being cheated every time you fight them.

[ArkoHighStar]

Someone has mentioned that in mod 5 one of the named beholders is behavingin this fashion, this could be a fix for all beholders?

[Freeman]

Please, the correct terms are spay or neuter. I do agree we have to keep them from breeding out of control though. Next thing you know, they will be digging through our garbage cans, scaring the pet beholders we keep in the house, and running in packs through the streets of Stormreach

[Tanka]

Signed on 100%, Bizbag.

[Crabo]

I dont have any trouble "fixing" beholders with a big sword or axe as they are right now and believe that many people would be in the same boat.

Giving the beholders currently in game at least 3 times the HP they have now so a decent melee guy cant cut one down in 3 seconds would be a more suitable fix.
Please stop asking for this very easy game to be made easier.

[Tanka]

I dont have any trouble "fixing" beholders with a big sword or axe as they are right now and believe that many people would be in the same boat.

Giving the beholders currently in game at least 3 times the HP they have now so a decent melee guy cant cut one down in 3 seconds would be a more suitable fix.
Please stop asking for this very easy game to be made easier.

It isn't a matter of "making easier," it's a matter of "beholders are currently functioning 100% differently than they do in PnP."

If a beholder wants to be able to use its eye beams, it has to pluck out its antimagic field eye first.

[Ghoste]

Please, the correct terms are spay or neuter. I do agree we have to keep them from breeding out of control though. Next thing you know, they will be digging through our garbage cans, scaring the pet beholders we keep in the house, and running in packs through the streets of Stormreach

/giggles like a little warforged schoolgirl

[Freeman]

I dont have any trouble "fixing" beholders with a big sword or axe as they are right now and believe that many people would be in the same boat.

Giving the beholders currently in game at least 3 times the HP they have now so a decent melee guy cant cut one down in 3 seconds would be a more suitable fix.
Please stop asking for this very easy game to be made easier.

Of course, even the toughest melee guy doesn't last long when they've been hit with 9 negative levels followed by a few disintegrates(With some failed saves due to massive negative level penalties).

You also have to consider where you fight beholders. Currently, most of them are in quests that are level 10 or 12. A level 14 character with decent equipment won't have a huge problem with them. But at the lower levels, they can be nasty. The beholder room in VON3 can be a nightmare for characters in the level 9 range. This fix would at least keep you from losing all of your buffs every time one looked at you. It wouldn't really make fighting them any easier.

[Freeman]

/giggles like a little warforged schoolgirl

Great, now I have to get that image out of my head. Catholic schoolgirl outfits and warforged don't mix very well. And why did I have to add ponytails?

[Crabo]

It isn't a matter of "making easier," it's a matter of "beholders are currently functioning 100% differently than they do in PnP."

If a beholder wants to be able to use its eye beams, it has to pluck out its antimagic field eye first.

Forgive me for misunderstanding. I for one do not feel i am cheated ANY time i fight a beholder let alone every time.
I can give you a list of things that are "currently functioning 100% differently than they do in PnP." Do you suggest all these things are fixed too ?
This isnt PnP , it never was, and it never will be.

As everyone knows, Beholders are very frustrating to fight....

...but I think these changes would make beholders a much better foe - you won't feel like you're being cheated every time you fight them.

[Tanka]

Forgive me for misunderstanding. I for one do not feel i am cheated ANY time i fight a beholder let alone every time.
I can give you a list of things that are "currently functioning 100% differently than they do in PnP." Do you suggest all these things are fixed too ?
This isnt PnP , it never was, and it never will be.

Some things aren't going to translate at all from PnP to MMO. Of those that should transition, they should make every effort to make that translation.

This is one of those situations.

[Crabo]

Of course, even the toughest melee guy doesn't last long when they've been hit with 9 negative levels followed by a few disintegrates(With some failed saves due to massive negative level penalties).

You also have to consider where you fight beholders. Currently, most of them are in quests that are level 10 or 12. A level 14 character with decent equipment won't have a huge problem with them. But at the lower levels, they can be nasty. The beholder room in VON3 can be a nightmare for characters in the level 9 range. This fix would at least keep you from losing all of your buffs every time one looked at you. It wouldn't really make fighting them any easier.

Some of us used to kill those Von3 beholders on elite when the level cap was 10. Oh...and they could shoot their rays through walls back then. Yea. lets get the devs right onto it...priority issue.

[Kraldor]

I am fairly sure that your second issue has been fixed on Risia. I haven't ran against other beholders yet, but the undead beholder in Ghosts of Perdition operates the correct way. His antimagic field is only active when he is not casting spells. and he can only cast spells when his antimagic field is inactive. I'm pretty certain thats how its supposed to function.

[Crabo]

Some things aren't going to translate at all from PnP to MMO. Of those that should transition, they should make every effort to make that translation.

This is one of those situations.

I wonder who the guy is that actually decides if this is one of those situations or not. Right now...i only know who it isnt.

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

Still, if you get blasted by 3 disintegrates in a row by a beholder while inside its antimagic field, i think we could call a foul on the beholders half. i'd rather they work like they should, meaning if he can use his rays, i should beable to cast spells.

[Crabo]

Still, if you get blasted by 3 disintegrates in a row by a beholder while inside its antimagic field, i think we could call a foul on the beholders half. i'd rather they work like they should, meaning if he can use his rays, i should beable to cast spells.

I understand what you are saying and sure it would be nice to keep my buffs after encounters with beholders but it just doesnt seem to accomplish alot by making the change. As it stands now, the range on your spells is just slightly longer than the range of his antimagic field, at least it is on a sorc without enlarge. Try standing a little further away from them, or use tactics and ask your melees to turn the beholder so it isnt facing you. You can cast spells, you just have to stand in a different spot to do so.

[Bizbag]

I am fairly sure that your second issue has been fixed on Risia. I haven't ran against other beholders yet, but the undead beholder in Ghosts of Perdition operates the correct way. His antimagic field is only active when he is not casting spells. and he can only cast spells when his antimagic field is inactive. I'm pretty certain thats how its supposed to function.

I haven't been able to test it on Risia myself, but does he not cast at all when his antimagic is up, or does he simply not cast on people he Antimagic's?

I am not opposed to Beholders using their antimagic and rays at the same time (they're quite intelligent enough to use both their powers effectively, but separately), but I am opposed to being hit by Disintegrate when I cannot cast it back.

I wonder who the guy is that actually decides if this is one of those situations or not. Right now...i only know who it isnt.

None of us make the decision, but it's just kind of a judgement call. There's no practical reason this rule couldn't be translated into an MMO; nothing to do with the live-action aspect or the fast pace, etc. prevents beholders from supressing, not dispelling buffs.

[Tenkari_Rozahas]

I understand what you are saying and sure it would be nice to keep my buffs after encounters with beholders but it just doesnt seem to accomplish alot by making the change. As it stands now, the range on your spells is just slightly longer than the range of his antimagic field, at least it is on a sorc without enlarge. Try standing a little further away from them, or use tactics and ask your melees to turn the beholder so it isnt facing you. You can cast spells, you just have to stand in a different spot to do so.

Its hard to do that when your in a small corridor and some idiot is bringing 3 beholders your way when your the parties cleric in VoN3, and keeps coming no matter no many times you yell "STOP COMING FORWARD!" then you get blasted to smithereens before the melee guy figures out what he did wrong. and for your information, i was running like hell from them, i got halfway from the locked door to the shrine before they offed me, i couldnt heal myself so i was boned since they couldnt get aggro off me.

[Boulderun]

Beholder antimagic should have been fixed as soon as the tech to do so (see Globes of Invulnerability) was introduced, the same as Prot. Energy and Stoneskin were fixed as soon as the tech to track damage absorbed by buffs was introduced.

Being unable to eye-ray those in the antimagic cone would probably gimp beholders too much in the context of this game. The dispelling, however, just makes them huge aggravations, not challenges.

[Crabo]

Its hard to do that when your in a small corridor and some idiot is bringing 3 beholders your way when your the parties cleric in VoN3, and keeps coming no matter no many times you yell "STOP COMING FORWARD!" then you get blasted to smithereens before the melee guy figures out what he did wrong. and for your information, i was running like hell from them, i got halfway from the locked door to the shrine before they offed me, i couldnt heal myself so i was boned since they couldnt get aggro off me.

Oh i understand now. We want Turbine to nerf beholders because the players suck.
I fully support the change now after thinking it through.