New Party Type - Friendly Fire

[Dingo123]

Responses in Red

So of course we see you disagree with this because you prefer easy button to challenging well thought out play.

Oh wait, you prefer solo play, what are you even in this thread for?

Borr.

I don't disagree that it would promote "smart play". It certainly would.

So would following the PnP rules of decreasing someone by a level every time they died. Now there's a challenge for you.

What I'm saying is that it would require far far more out of your casters than your meleeists, without the additional benefit to the Caster.

Casters are currently balanced based on the premise that the Caster CAN stand in that firewall (which is a tactic, incidentally). Life for the Meleeist on the other hand would change relatively little.

See the imbalance?

In order to get the same effect the Caster must dramatically alter their playstyle. The Meleeist not so much. The caster must do all this for arguably less benefit than they provide now (They can spam fireballs at villains built for that... a single fireball isn't going to mean squat).

So the Caster either becomes buffbot to the meelee, or well... nothing else.

They can't cast web, hypno, and can only manage with single target controls.

So their Offensive spells are neutered, their defensive spells are neutered, leaving them with single target attacks.

Why not just pick up another fighter?

[Riddikulus]

I don't disagree that it would promote "smart play". It certainly would.

So would following the PnP rules of decreasing someone by a level every time they died. Now there's a challenge for you.

What I'm saying is that it would require far far more out of your casters than your meleeists, without the additional benefit to the Caster.

Casters are currently balanced based on the premise that the Caster CAN stand in that firewall (which is a tactic, incidentally). Life for the Meleeist on the other hand would change relatively little.

See the imbalance?

In order to get the same effect the Caster must dramatically alter their playstyle. The Meleeist not so much. The caster must do all this for arguably less benefit than they provide now (They can spam fireballs at villains built for that... a single fireball isn't going to mean squat).

So the Caster either becomes buffbot to the meelee, or well... nothing else.

They can't cast web, hypno, and can only manage with single target controls.

So their Offensive spells are neutered, their defensive spells are neutered, leaving them with single target attacks.

Why not just pick up another fighter?

Arguably casters are the most powerful classes in DDO at present.

I can do things with my wizard that I wouldn't dream of with any of my other characters.

Taking casters down a notch by giving them some consequences for their actions is exactly what they need.

It's either that or you will continue to see some nerfing of caster power relative to PnP as the game progresses up in levels. You already see some of the mitigation of caster power with triple speed melee, caster cooldowns (where is that in PnP?), and amping up of mob HP.

[Shadow_Flayer]

So the Caster either becomes buffbot to the meelee, or well... nothing else.

They can't cast web, hypno, and can only manage with single target controls.

So their Offensive spells are neutered, their defensive spells are neutered, leaving them with single target attacks.

I disagree that casters would be neutered. Most of my characters are casters of some form or another, so I have looked at the possible problems.

Drop a dance ball and a firewall in it. There is some multi target damage. Drop a hypno pattern and range the mobs one at a time to slow down the fight. Cast a web or two and take the targets as they come free (or blast them).

Caster would have to be more creative. But so would the group. With none of the normal crowd control and massive over time damage (ie firewall), the typical battle won't be over as quickly as with it, and the fighters might notice how much help the casters actually gave them.

But hey, there are uber groups of battle clerics and barbarians that can solo and duo every quest. This doesn't stop that. This isn't a change in overall play. This is an optional playstyle that some people might like to use for the challenge of it.

[Borrigain]

...
So would following the PnP rules of decreasing someone by a level every time they died. Now there's a challenge for you.

....

Now THERE is something I can agree with you on Dingo, I personally would love to see that.....as well as loss of CON too. I friggin hate sloppy "death as a tactic play", but that is another thread.

However, that said, yes, casters would have to alter their playstyle. BUT....melee would too. You couldn't have fighters and barbs just race in and swing wildly, they would kill themselves with untargeted blows. They also would have to pick and choose when to dive in, swing, and duck back out or block. THF's would have to announce their intention to wade in and cleave. It would slow the combat down immensly and give time for the casters to do their job and the rogues to sneak around and backstab.

IMO, and I repeat....my opinion for those who feel every statement needs to be backed up by some kind of "proof", I see it as promoting communication between all classes to effectively achieve results that are now just "zerg in, swing madly, drop a couple of AoE spells on the bunched up mobs and party....zerg to next contact".

Some like that style of play...some do not. The point of the thread is to get feedback on an OPTION to promote smarter, slowed down play; not force everyone into it.

And yes the caster can still cast those AoE spells you mentioned, they just have to target carefully and with some thought as to "when" to throw it.

Jeez, just dreaming about this "option" selected from the entrance screen makes ME yearn for PnP days of yore. Add a "fatigue bar" to the melee types (after all, I don't think anyone can swing a 10lb sword for long without losing some power), and you have one hell of an adult's thinking game.

Borr.

Edit: call it "Simulation Mode" and regular play "Arcade Mode".