New Party Type - Friendly Fire

[In_Like_Flynn]

Friendly Fire would open too many opportunities to use the AI to defeat itself.

[Borrigain]

Friendly Fire would open too many opportunities to use the AI to defeat itself.

Flynn does have a point, but if they continue to tweak mob AI to be a little smarter each time, I don't see why this couldn't be implemented down the road. Or just keep mobs as is so they can't damage themselves.

And I love this idea, of actually bringing some tactical play into the zerg-fest most missions have become. No FF actually kinda turns me off, the game is basically "charge in, swing wildly, drop maximized AoE spells on the party, encounter over"......now that may work for some, and more power too them, but for some of us "old-school" PnP players, an option to "up the play a notch" would be super-cool!

I too am down with the "check box" on the entrance screen. It would be a great way for guilds to truly see if "they got it goin on".

/signed
Borr.

[Girevik]

Friendly Fire would open too many opportunities to use the AI to defeat itself.

They don't need to code the mobs to use friendly fire effects, just the characters.

I'd try it. The original Diablo was friendly fire and that was a major component of the fun and strategy. Setting up firing lanes, etc.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Friendly Fire would open too many opportunities to use the AI to defeat itself.

Yup, without giving more mobs resists and immunities, the casters would wipe their parties.

Us = apply resists, aggro large groups, shield block while we wait for enemy Cleric to Flamestrike his party to ashes. Then, kill Cleric.
Them = D'oh!

[Wulf_Ratbane]

Yup, without giving more mobs resists and immunities, the casters would wipe their parties.

Us = apply resists, aggro large groups, shield block while we wait for enemy Cleric to Flamestrike his party to ashes. Then, kill Cleric.
Them = D'oh!

I don't think the OP intended friendly fire to apply to the AI.

I certainly didn't.

[Shadow_Flayer]

Friendly Fire would open too many opportunities to use the AI to defeat itself.

Well, my quick thought on the topic was they would only change the players. Making the mobs smart enough to follow the rules would be a huge deal, I'd think. Don't touch the mob AI (for the test play through anyway ).

Seems like they already have most of the technology in place ... the PvP pits have the friendly fire stuff (in a smaller zone). Set the quest flag to indicate the whole zone is PvP-like, and it's done, right? No, I know it is much more than that. There are bits and pieces laying around that make me think it possible without an engine re-write.

[Delzon]

hmm... sounds like a great thing to throw on a test server and get people to come and try it out. If it doesn't work just remove it from the test server.

[warlordjd]

that would be fun smed, just think of the dragon rooms no more using the tactics that you led us with that way. Wow it would be really fun firewalls= instant agro from your own party hahhaha. (of course we all would get 30 fire res so you can still cast fire wall, hahah sure but my fire wall does more than 30 points ) another cool option would to have a perma death button as well . Now that would be fun with this idea.

[Ezzee]

I kind of like this idea as long as it is optional. Yeah, it would cut down on the casting of certain spells and would also require a lot more strategy involved, but it is still kind of cool. It would also add a little more to the roleplaying aspect too. You don't know how many times I've "accidentally" wanted to kill a party member with a "mistargeted" disintegrate or Cone of Cold.

[moorewr]

I love this idea. Real tactics! No standing in your firewall!

Wall of Fire would shrink down PnP usefulness (crowd control except against dumb/immobile enemies.). Instakill would rule the roost...

Maybe let the leader select this as a party type, and the party members all have to click OK on a warning to enter the quest.. to keep griefing down...

The Pit could finally be used as God intended it - as the best quake arena ever devised...

In a different thread relating to opening existing quest environments to PvP, sans monsters, I go to wondering if adding a 'Friendly Fire' mode to the 'Party' option (where you convert to raid, have convert to friendly fire) would add a different dimension to things in general.

Friendly fire would simply be the same quest as before, except you can hit people in your party. You would not be able to stand in the same spot as others, or pass through your party. You could beat the heck out of each other on purpose if you wanted to -- not really a PvP mode, but I can see people using it for that.

It seems to be this type of thing would add a huge challenge to the game ... no more wildly spamming cone of cold or fireball ... no more ranging from behind the party ... two handed fighters being give a lot more space to avoid the splash damage ... lots more communication and strategy involved ... etc.

I'm pretty sure I remember hearing that Turbine experimented with something like this along the way. While it isn't new content, it sure would make content new

[Shadow_Flayer]

I kind of like this idea as long as it is optional. Yeah, it would cut down on the casting of certain spells and would also require a lot more strategy involved, but it is still kind of cool. It would also add a little more to the roleplaying aspect too. You don't know how many times I've "accidentally" wanted to kill a party member with a "mistargeted" disintegrate or Cone of Cold.

I could see Turbine tossing the idea out because of the griefing possibilities that abound. Guild or friend only groups would be more than likely the types of groups that enjoy this style of play.

Maybe you a guild can unlock this 'mode' with their guild favor

[knghtstalkr]

... but I would like it also apply to the bad guys just to be fair. You might have to code a brain into the monsters, but I don't mind!

I'd love to solo a dungeon with my rogue if I can get them to kill each other!

I can see another problem with this... Charmers! If a caster charmed a monster in this 'free for all', you'd have to add code so is still doesn't aggro on party members... otherwise it will veiw anyone besides the charmer as enemy.

[Dwolf]

Sure you could make friendly fire apply only to the party and not the AI. But an interesting way to take advantage of it for a wizard is to charm a few bad guys, get them to start a fight and draw aggro, nuke everything - and you don't have to worry about having as many enemies wearing pink cones over their heads after the battle is over.

Or, you could charm a bunch of monsters, slap on your protection from fire, and get them to follow you back and forth through your own firewall.

Of course there would be no more fighting the mobs in the middle of your own wizard's cloudkill.

[VirieSquichie]

Well, yes the point would be that it would be a different, and harder, way of playing -- for all characters. No more summoning comets by the cleric, to land on the mob he's standing next to Watch out on the swings when mugging that mod -- those dual rapiers might hit that guy next to you (and on your team) when the mob dies. All that greater cleave splash damage. Those rangers that can shoot through everything in the way (ouch ouch ouch). No more caster standing in his max-empowered-crit firewall waiting for the mobs to die. Otto's dance ball on the doorway?

I'd love for a friendly-fire-on party type. It's one of the weakest parts of the game now, and one of the reasons elite is such a cakewalk when it's meant to be insanely difficult.

[BurnerD]

I would be willing to give this a try.
My only comment against it would be that mobs have such ridiculously inflated HP that if you could not bring the whole party to bear like you can now it may raise the difficulty much more than you expect.

I don't know if what I said is clear or not, but if you look at the high HP of the monsters in this game a spell like cometfall for example does not do a ton of damage, whereas in PNP your high level damage spell could hurt a monster pretty bad if a save was failed. I think the damage to hp ratio would have to be adjusted in this "friendly fire" mode to make it work. Mobs HP's are high right now because you can bring the entire party to bear on them.

I do think it would add a new dimension to the game however, and as long as it was optional would be all for it.

[BGP]

How would mass buff's, heals, or other area spells work?

You may want to be careful with that Mass Cure Mod there buddy Healing the mobs would be a fun trick to play on occasion.

I like it a lot.

[Dingo123]

Upon careful thought, I disagree with this idea.

Friendly fire is possible in PnP due to the methodical nature of the game. You can plot out everything that is going to happen, and know where everyone is.

In this game it would make Rogues, and Mages parahiahs, and severely limit their playability.

No more chucking around niac's, disintegrate, or a host of other spells.

This would be like playing with a Caster who cast nothing but Grease.

Because Rogues are never the focus of party members (assuming they are not) rogues would have the potential to severely damage any party member they strike with an arrow, or happen to cut with a sword.

This says absolutely nothing about the wad of heroes trying to take down an ogre, who promptly do more damage to each other than the ogre.

[Shadow_Flayer]

Upon careful thought, I disagree with this idea.

Friendly fire is possible in PnP due to the methodical nature of the game. You can plot out everything that is going to happen, and know where everyone is.

In this game it would make Rogues, and Mages parahiahs, and severely limit their playability.

No more chucking around niac's, disintegrate, or a host of other spells.

This would be like playing with a Caster who cast nothing but Grease.

Because Rogues are never the focus of party members (assuming they are not) rogues would have the potential to severely damage any party member they strike with an arrow, or happen to cut with a sword.

This says absolutely nothing about the wad of heroes trying to take down an ogre, who promptly do more damage to each other than the ogre.

Well, the point is to make things harder, and to offer players a different type of challenge. While DDO can never be PnP, this would give it a bit more of a PnP flavor. A friendly fire option would certainly change game play when used.

In PnP would you have your sorcerer stand in a firewall? Would you have your rogue/ranger stand behind a group of three tanks huddled in a four foot wide doorway and shooting through them? Those three tanks standing the same exact five foot square swinging greatswords at the same target?

As for the comment on mass buffs ... well heck, we can mass cure crit undead to death now, so I suppose healing/affecting everyone in the area of effect is the right thing.

Hmm ... I like this idea more and more when I think about it. Just let me know devs and I'll send in the code changes for ya

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I think I agree in part with Dingo... grrr...confused....

I think having friendly fire from melee could be pretty ugly. As Dingo said, its too fast and furious in a video game format.

The ranged problem can be easily solved with percise shot which would become an immediate must have feat for ranged fighters.

Friendly fire from spells is definately possible and would be FANTASTIC. It would require increased coordination but would be huge for the game. For example, it would require that the attack be more planned... instead of "on haste charge" it would be "on comet haste and charge". Just like with ice storm or grease, other friendly fire actions could mitigated by preplanned buffs. I know in PnP it isn't unusual for us to bring down a fireball or acidball on top of our rogue who snuck ahead and got ambushed. Of course we gave him the correct resists first and he does have improved evasion...

If they added friendly fire there would of course be room for griefing...but we know what would happen to those players pretty quick.

Some of the AOE spells have been HUGELY nerfed in DDO because without the FF limitations they were way too powerful. Those spells would then have to be fixed (mostly ranges and areas were made too small to be useful except at close quarters when they were in fact meant to be longer range attacks).

[Borrigain]

Upon careful thought, I disagree with this idea. Because is opposite of easy button you advocate

Friendly fire is possible in PnP due to the methodical nature of the game. You can plot out everything that is going to happen, and know where everyone is. And you could do that here too with a group that is willing to slow down

In this game it would make Rogues, and Mages parahiahs, and severely limit their playability. Wrong. Would make them play smarter, not limit them

No more chucking around niac's, disintegrate, or a host of other spells. Exactly the point of the OP

This would be like playing with a Caster who cast nothing but Grease. Wrong again. Would cause caster to play SMARTER, and pick and choose which spells to bring to bear.

Because Rogues are never the focus of party members (assuming they are not) rogues would have the potential to severely damage any party member they strike with an arrow, or happen to cut with a sword. Yes they could, so play smart rogue or you'll be riding in the fighter's backpack.

This says absolutely nothing about the wad of heroes trying to take down an ogre, who promptly do more damage to each other than the ogre.That would be funny and after 1 or 2 times....it would probably promote SMART play

Responses in Red

So of course we see you disagree with this because you prefer easy button to challenging well thought out play.

Oh wait, you prefer solo play, what are you even in this thread for?

Borr.