WoW Solo Zones.

[Arnya]

But villify me all you like.

Keep up the no-brainer posts dude I don't have to do nuttin'

[smodge13]

logical argument.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=114383

[LEFT][B][COLOR=darkorange]

GRAND TOTAL EXPERIENCE: 535,095!

we already can effectively solo our way through 50% of the game (cap is currently just over 1 mill exp)

problem solved, we dont need these solo instances, we already have wilderness, as for unlimited sp/hp its called recalling, you dont suffer exp penalties in these.

but will this stop you from suggesting this rediculous idea? i dont think so.

[Dingo123]

logical argument.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=114383





we already can effectively solo our way through 50% of the game (cap is currently just over 1 mill exp)

problem solved, we dont need these solo instances, we already have wilderness, as for unlimited sp/hp its called recalling, you dont suffer exp penalties in these.

but will this stop you from suggesting this rediculous idea? i dont think so.

An adventure that requires you to leave the area, run to an inn, buy some food, stand around for two to three minutes (depending on the food you can afford), and then run back to the instance is a poor adventure.

[smodge13]

An adventure that requires you to leave the area, run to an inn, buy some food, stand around for two to three minutes (depending on the food you can afford), and then run back to the instance is a poor adventure.

but didnt you want solo zones where you can mindlessely kill things without a purpose?, doesnt sound like much of an adventure, how is having regen inside the quest any different from regen outside?, instead of sitting down and waiting for your hp/sp to regen, you run eat and drink, in total your hp/sp would probably regen faster from recalling than from sitting down, look at how long it takes you in cities to regen naturally, about 5 minutes, where running out then back in takes what 2-3?.

[Dingo123]

but didnt you want solo zones where you can mindlessely kill things without a purpose?, doesnt sound like much of an adventure, how is having regen inside the quest any different from regen outside?, instead of sitting down and waiting for your hp/sp to regen, you run eat and drink, in total your hp/sp would probably regen faster from recalling than from sitting down, look at how long it takes you in cities to regen naturally, about 5 minutes, where running out then back in takes what 2-3?.

The time you spent looking for something new to kill would mean you'd usually be pretty close to full HP. The Monsters would be balanced around that.

[smodge13]

The time you spent looking for something new to kill would mean you'd usually be pretty close to full HP. The Monsters would be balanced around that.

*sigh* theres no pleasing some people, the system we have is fundamentally in the game at the moment, if your complaining about the regen then make a thread saying: "give wilderness areas natural regen"

then we will crush this theory with the simple fact that you can just recall.

also i'd rather dev's spent their times making dungeons/adventures for groups than solo area's that would almost never been used, ddo is about groups and parties, dnd pnp is about groups, you cant play pnp dnd solo, they have put in something useful for when you cant find a group, that is also usable by those who have groups.

summary
1. ddo already has what your asking for, your just whining about lack of specifics.
2. ddo/dnd is a group game made for multiple players, ddo has soloable things and doesnt need more
3. im getting frustrated enough to actually seriously respond to these rediculous threads.

[philo]

Originally Posted by Mercules View Post
I hear there are games that already do this... Amazingly enough you could go play them. Why is it every new idea/suggestion you post smacks of, "I need an easy way to gain XP." ? Trust me, you can get XP fairly easily just doing quests at appropriate levels.

I know you say you are not new to the game, but really the things you ask for make people wonder.
Ok.


Endless SPs for Cure spells? Unneeded.
I disagree.

XP Potions? Exploitable & unwanted.
So is the mail system, and a great deal of the mail we get.


Solo areas you regen in? Why? It is a game built around grouping.

Which it would still be.


Some solo content is ok, but very limited. This is coming from a person who usually solos up to level 3 and prefers soloing in other games like CoH.
And I'd like to solo sometimes at level 7, or level 9, or 13, solo with the expectation of reasonable benefit.

I do not understand this desire to limit how other people play their characters when not even in teams...

I disagree.

So is the mail system, and a great deal of the mail we get.

Solo areas you regen in? Why? It is a game built around grouping.

Which it would still be.

And I'd like to solo sometimes at level 7, or level 9, or 13, solo with the expectation of reasonable benefit.

I do not understand this desire to limit how other people play their characters when not even in teams...

If anything, this game needs its difficulty adjusted up, not down. There is no reason why you cant solo at any lvl other then lack of competence. They just added slayer quests so you could go solo without using many resources or knowing the ins and outs of quests.

All your requests sound like jokes to me. no mana costs for heal spells, xp pots, wow zones...are you kidding? Im waiting for the punch line...

[Dingo123]

If anything, this game needs its difficulty adjusted up, not down. There is no reason why you cant solo at any lvl other then lack of competence. They just added slayer quests so you could go solo without using many resources or knowing the ins and outs of quests.

All your requests sound like jokes to me. no mana costs for heal spells, xp pots, wow zones...are you kidding? Im waiting for the punch line...

Just about every suggestion I've made has at least a little basis in actual D&D rules.

Free Spells? Look up Reserve Feats.

XP Pots? Various Items give XP on use.

Solo Quests? There's absolutely nothing in the rules of D&D that says you must have anyone beyond a single player and a DM. In fact, there have been articles published that are specificly solo adventures.

More to the point however, Regeneration of HP is well known in D&D.. Regeneration of SP is a bit more iffy, but eh?

[philo]

Just about every suggestion I've made has at least a little basis in actual D&D rules.

Free Spells? Look up Reserve Feats.

XP Pots? Various Items give XP on use.

Solo Quests? There's absolutely nothing in the rules of D&D that says you must have anyone beyond a single player and a DM. In fact, there have been articles published that are specificly solo adventures.

More to the point however, Regeneration of HP is well known in D&D.. Regeneration of SP is a bit more iffy, but eh?

Regardless of how you justify it with pnp... In a game where people solo bosses intended to be 12 person encounters (and those are the most difficult encounters available) anything that decreases the difficulty is a bad thing.

Just go solo. If they added a duplicate normal quest that had it listed as solo would you go try to solo it then? Most quests are possible to solo, sometimes you just have to get creative. If you want easy exp do slayers/explorers. You dont need regen, that would just make it easy.

[Dingo123]

Oh suck it up, and admit the concept of what you want is there already just requires a little effort as opposed to your "easy button" regen idea.

You know... it's funny that you call my idea... that actually requires you to stay in the quest area and fight the easy button, as you espouse a strategy that completely takes you out of harms way via the push of a button.

[Dingo123]

Regardless of how you justify it with pnp... In a game where people solo bosses intended to be 12 person encounters (and those are the most difficult encounters available) anything that decreases the difficulty is a bad thing.

Just go solo. If they added a duplicate normal quest that had it listed as solo would you go try to solo it then? Most quests are possible to solo, sometimes you just have to get creative. If you want easy exp do slayers/explorers. You dont need regen, that would just make it easy.

Why is something that decreases the difficulty for THE OTHER GUY a bad thing?

[GeneralDiomedes]

You know... it's funny that you call my idea... that actually requires you to stay in the quest area and fight the easy button, as you espouse a strategy that completely takes you out of harms way via the push of a button.

There coming to take me away ha ha hee hee ho ho to the funny farm ..

DDO quests are designed to be resource drains. If you effectively put a shrine after every encounter, the game would become the equivalent of stuffing seventh graders in lockers.

And you cannot make it easy for one person without making it easy for everyone.

[Targonis]

Why is something that decreases the difficulty for THE OTHER GUY a bad thing?

*sigh* Ok, since you want to know why so many people are against some or all of your ideas, I will try to explain. Please accept that I can NOT speak for every member of the community, but hope that I understand the mind set of the players well enough to speak for them on this.

For starters, many people who play DDO do so for one reason, the game design appeals to them MORE than the game design you see in EQ, WoW, and other games that use the same overall design(even if each game looks different or has a different flavor).

EverQuest, followed by DaoC and World of Warcraft use a very very similar game design. Even Lord of the Rings Online has a very similar design in many ways to these types of games. They are focused on the idea of this big world where people can run from one end of the world to the other, which often takes a good amount of time. You want to do something, you can do it by just trying over and over and over and over again. As I mentioned, each game has differences, but the idea of grinding your way up in levels or skills is there, and you can sit in one place waiting for the mobs to respawn in order to get the loot.

DDO may have some things in common since just about every game out there is based on the pen and paper Dungeons and Dragons games in some very basic ways. The big difference between DDO and the other games is that to play the game, MOST things that just waste time are removed.

In DDO, You don't need to run across the game world, from zone to zone to zone just to get to most adventures. The most is you go from a main city zone into an adventure area, and then into the dungeon. So, very little time is wasted in getting to most adventures.

You get experience for finishing adventures, not for killing individual mobs. Sure, there is some grinding where people may grind adventures compared to "camps", but that is a fairly big difference. There are still some ways to gain experience while soloing as well(slayer/explorer/rares quests), but the experience gained from these is insignificant compared to doing regular adventures. As a result of this focus on finishing an adventure, the focus is also off individuals and instead is on groups.

Classes are designed to be what they are, adventuring professions. Not all classes are good at soloing, but the trade-off is that if a class isn't good for soloing, they have a really important role in a group. If you play a group-focused character, you should NOT expect to be able to solo as well as those other classes.

Now, let's look at the game as it started, and where it is today to give you an idea of some of the changes that have happened....

The game started with a level cap of 10. Considering that in Dungeons and Dragons a level 10 character is pretty powerful, this cap can NOT be properly compared to levels in other games.

There was no PvP in any way, shape or form at launch.

There was exactly one raid, Tempest Spine at launch.

There were a ton of level 1-4 adventures compared to level 8-10 adventures in the game.

The list of what wasn't in the game at that point could go on, but look at where the game is today. More adventures, more raids, solo difficulty was added to a number of lower level adventures. The list is out there about what has been added.

Now, solo difficulty was added because Turbine saw the demand for things for people to do while waiting for a group. While these adventures are easier, the adventures themselves have not changed, and the rules are not different. For some classes, these "solo difficulty" adventures may not be soloable for whatever reason.

And that brings us to what you have been asking for, changes to the MECHANICS of the game are not being added. Shrines that spawn after doing something might be the only thing that would cater to making it easier for those who solo, but would also make it easier for groups. Changes to the mechanics ONLY for solo play will probably never happen. Changes to the mechanics for BOTH group and solo play may come in time.

DDO has it's niche because it is different, and that appeals to those of us who love the game. That niche would dissolve if DDO became too much like other games. DDO is also more focused on storyline than the other games out there, and the players prefer it.

So, before you ask for a change to major game mechanics, think to yourself WHY you feel it would make the game better. Just attracting more people won't help at this stage, and it would drive away those who are loyal to the current design.

What about "solo zones" would really help anyway? Experience per kill might be what, 1-5 experience per mob? You get more than that from the slayer quests, and even if you have difficulty soloing, the slayer quests WILL let you get experience if you just kill one or two mobs, duck back out, heal up, and then go back in.

Free healing spells by clerics? Why, because your cleric can't heal non-stop? There are healing potions and wands, which do the job of healing. Clerics are NOT intended to be "holy arcane spell casters" that are intended to focus on offensive magic. They are generally the proverbial healers with some offensive spells, but the focus is NOT on offensive spells. As a result, if your cleric is there to cast offensive spells, then the group should know you are a battle cleric and your focus isn't on healing. This means the group should have other healers or healing ability since YOU don't want your cleric to be healing. And in that case, why do you want to be a cleric instead of an arcane caster?

DDO also has the ability for a character to advance in multiple classes. This means that if you want healing and damage output abilities, make a character mix that focuses on how you want your character to be. If you want some healing but mostly offensive spellcasting, you can go 8 sorcerer, 6 cleric for example. You may not get your "free" healing spells, but your character would clearly be what you want, an arcane with healing abilities. Just keep in mind that the level cap applies to your total character levels, not the cap for each class. 8+6=14, the current level cap. When the level cap goes up again, you can decide where you want to put the extra levels as you earn them.

Now, some classes also start off weak but then grow into their full power. Wizards, sorcerers, bards, and clerics really fall into this category. Clerics may be desired in groups, but if you try to solo a cleric in the low level game, it is NOT easy. Wizards, sorcerers, and bards also have a tough time soloing due to lower hit points, and not having a lot of spell points in the low level game. As a result, while there is SOME soloing for these classes, it's harder than a melee class.

Rogues never really gain good solo ability when it comes to combat. They CAN solo with certain builds, but a skill based rogue that is focused on traps and locks should never be considered a "soloing character". This does not mean that they have been ignored, but rather, they are treated as a specialist class which is at it's strongest when working WITH others. Don't try to take the class design from other games and apply it to other games, because it just doesn't work.

That's pretty much it, DDO is DDO, and other games are other games. If there is a game mechanic that is broken, such as ranged weapons not comparing properly to melee in terms of damage or utility, that is a better area to address than trying to add things to DDO to make it more like other games.

And, with that in mind, things like crafting were already brought up by people at Turbine as something that is being worked on. The priority for things like this may not be as high as some would like, but it is there. You may want to do a search to see what other things are on the list for DDO so you know what ideas are already being worked on.

You can find out a bit here:
http://ddo.stratics.com/content/hoclogs/hoc_0706.php

Or something more recent:
http://www.ddo.com/article/845

The team at Turbine isn't sitting still when it comes to updating the game. With module 5, the game engine is seeing an upgrade for example. Many die-hard DDO fans stay on top of these posts, so when we hear people trying to suggest that DDO become a different game, we also keep in mind the direction the game is currently going in.

I hope this helps in some way, because players trying to suggest things that are 180 degrees away from the direction the game is already going in will generally only get negative feedback by the players. Is there room for improvement in the game? Of course, but Turbine really does listen to the player base as a whole.

[Uska]

Those places aren't really balanced so much for solo play, adding regen would help that. Even if it was regen added in solo only I'd be all for it.

Are you kidding me? I would LOVE to take my assassin rogue throughout searing heights... but every other fight becomes an exercise in drinking potions, using wands, or whatever.

Adding regen for solo play would do wonders.

I have taken about one of each basic class through the searing heights with recourse to twinking or spending tons on potions or wands did it solo and wasnt that hard, did because I am getting bored dont need the wow regen baloney here...play smart and you can do the heights with almost any class solo easy and with a small group its a cake walk.

[Dingo123]

I have taken about one of each basic class through the searing heights with recourse to twinking or spending tons on potions or wands did it solo and wasnt that hard, did because I am getting bored dont need the wow regen baloney here...play smart and you can do the heights with almost any class solo easy and with a small group its a cake walk.

Great for you.

It wasn't quite so easy for me. My level 6 rogue has trouble making it upto the bridge in tangleroot.

It's really easy to make the game more challenging for you.

You can make whatever challenge you like.

It's another matter altogether to make the game less challenging for people who are having a hard time of it.

[smodge13]

i wonder why you struggled, rogues are not a good solo class, they work for their sneak attack when a monster is distracted by something else, they are not meant to be major killers in up front 1 on 1 combat.

[Dingo123]

i wonder why you struggled, rogues are not a good solo class, they work for their sneak attack when a monster is distracted by something else, they are not meant to be major killers in up front 1 on 1 combat.

Precisely.

Now, I know that it says right in the description that certain classes blow at soloing.

I understand that.

However, they don't HAVE to be poor solo'rs.

Right now there's a grand total of like 2 teams LFG on Argobar. Sometimes it'd be nice to solo and rack up XP even if other people don't want to team or you don't, or whatever.

[Staedtler]

Okay, I'm curious. How would you change the rogue to make them better at soloing?

Permanent sneak attack? The ability to disappear whenever you want if you get overwhelmed?

Also, if you really find that the LFM doesn't advertise for your class, why haven't your started your own LFM? I'm really interested in how this is someone else's fault and not yours.


My popcorn is done in 4:30. I am waiting...

[smodge13]

actually rogues get a thing called bluff, which grants them sneak attack, deception items also give them sneak attack even while they have agro, these 2 things combined with a rogues umd means they do pretty well in a fight, 1 on 1, their not great, but they can do it

[Staedtler]

Oh I'm well aware of bluff and improved feint (and the pitiful durations on both). It's very possible to make a rogue excellent for soloing. That is, so long as you can master stealth, learn to pull/kite and are fairly self-sufficient. Dual-wielding with a Sirocco will also make your life much easier. So will exploiting Glitterdust and Web wands.

But like I said, I'm just curious what solution Dingo would like