Experience Potions.

[DesertBlue]

Is an A good enough? Lol, another self proclaimed brainiac.

So you're saying no people have disagreedwith the actual idea, but just attacked him personally...ok, let's do a recap then:

Posts number 2, 3, 7, 11, 13, 14, 15, 20, 23 (half and half), 25, 26, 27, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 38, 39, 40, 43, 44, 52, 53, 55...you get the point are all specifically attacking the idea. The majority of other posts are by the OP. #42 accuses the op of being the flamer.

If all you "have seen is him defending himself vs attacks" then I have just provided you some specific references to why you are "WRONG!"

If you're trying to feel sorry for the OP, I do too. He definitely isn't helping his situation any. He's getting more and more worked up and just distancing himself from other people more and more. The way to deal with that is not by distancing yourself even more. That is not effective communication.

I sure hope your last line there wasn't trying to imply that a COMM and ethics course would teach me that that is an effective way to deal with conflict in communication. Because if that is what you are implying then the OP's experiences in his last few threads have proven that you are "WRONG!" on that point as well.

Made you look. hehehe

[DesertBlue]

Wrong. The OP never gave any other context other than DDO. After that response he gave the broader context. So the only people "missing" the context at that point in the discussion were the telepaths. I am ashamed to admit that I am among the few who did in fact "miss" the context. I heard him think PnP for a fleeting second, but my own thoughts just wandered back to DDO.

You seem to like handing out consequences to people who are wrong, let's see if you'll follow your own advice and please not post for one year...of course you wont, you're just blatantly flaming. What you are doing lacks any sense of multi-directional communication, which leads to another tidbit of advice you handed down...

Actually you are still incorrect on this one. Try again

[Targitaj_Silverskin]

my idea better than all of yours lets solve people create lvl 14, 32pts characters with any equipment what u want(vorpal scimmitars etc.) then u start in newbe island u will have in backpack 6 +3 tomes for all stats. all this u'll get without playing, favor, expint - just from start. after u done WW u'll get GOD-mode and access to /killall. after STK u'll get all feats and spells. after TG - all enhancements(any races)
how u my idea, dingo? a? a!? much better than your
ps: lets remake ddo in GW.

pps: if we all this permit people this do not mean that they they are
obligated to use this, then why not to realize my idea?
-the universal excuse

hehehe keep laughing

[Ghoste]

my idea better than all of yours lets solve people create lvl 14, 32pts characters with any equipment what u want(vorpal scimmitars etc.) then u start in newbe island u will have in backpack 6 +3 tomes for all stats. all this u'll get without playing, favor, expint - just from start. after u done WW u'll get GOD-mode and access to /killall. after STK u'll get all feats and spells. after TG - all enhancements(any races)
how u my idea, dingo? a? a!? much better than your
ps: lets remake ddo in GW.

You know what? You're so right. All these things exist in DDO, I can prove it! And that means they should give them out to everybody every time a server crashes, because that's what saying "sorry" really means.

Lol.

[Dingo123]

ok, this thread seems horribly derailed and in lieu of a mod closing this thread, I have a few points which need to be said.

First, there are ways to change feats in PnP, Mindrape from the Book of Vile Darkness or Memory Erase (or something similar to that name) from the PHB 2 will remove feats, and wish can actually grant you new feats (albeit at a xp loss).

Second, to Desertblue, you made some comment about how everyone has been just flmaing the OP rather than disagreeing with him, we all disagreed for the first 2 pages and then proceeded to begin flaming as well, this is not the first time he has made posts like this.

Third, to the OP, its not that you should only say what people will like to hear, but rather put some actual thought into your ideas so they dont become laughing stocks of the board. Having lots of ideas is a good thing, but so far between this, your grand cleric plan, and your sorc thread (which admitidly I only briefly glanced through) I have yet to see ONE SINGLE PERSON agree with you. This should be a sign to you. Please, for the love of god, put some thought into your ideas before you make another thread or say something

I do put a great deal of thought into my threads. People misread them, or attack them as they see fit.

That's fine. I'm not really concerned with being the "laughingstock" of a video game forum (I mean seriously... like you people matter?...).

I won't say that I don't get frustrated... Watch Idiocracy... I feel like the main character. I'm trying to explain something ridiculously simple but it's met with a chorus of laughter. This isn't meant as a cut or a flame, it's just the easiest way to describe how I feel.

[Tanka]

What? And this disproves his original point how? WRONG

Please read the DM guide under artifact and under minor artifact and compare to a description of something like the dreamspitter. On second thought dont because you will see that you are WRONG.

What's to refute? I've never said otherwise. In case you forgot, I'm the one who pointed out that it existed after you denied it did.

I'll point the two of you to this.

My point is that no item is akin to a Minor Artifact, and you claim that several are (raid items, specifically. If you tried to use one of the more powerful ones, such as the SoS, you might begin to have an argument here, but even that I doubt). I asked for proof, and instead of providing proof, you simply state that I'm wrong.

That, for those keeping track, is what we like to call the Burden of Proof. You make a claim. I state there are no facts to support this claim, therefore placing the Burden of Proof upon your shoulders.

Seeing as how it's potentially a level and a half worth of experience... I'd say it's probably the experience. Is that the answer you wanted?

In fact, leading to my original point of any item that gives experience is of at least Minor Artifact power.

Failure to deliver service, or at the very least, failure to notify us in a timely fashion when such things are coming when they have knowledge beforehand. Dev's mess up. They should apologize whenever we, as customers, are dissattisfied. Like every other business has to. From McDonald's to your local medical institution.

False advertising and a mistake are not the same. If a restaurant messes up one of my orders, I inform them, and they get it right. While any worker should strive for excellence, mistakes happen. They are, after all, human.

Would you rather they cry about it on the forums or leave?

I'd rather they put together well thought out feedback that could actually be used by the devs and commented on by other users.

That was a pleasant lecture, in rebutt... I just think XP Potions would be superior to Dragonshards.

And many do not, and have given their opinions as to why not, and yet you continue to believe we are attacking you.

Now, what we are doing, is stating how bad of an idea we all believe this is. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Dingo123]

I'll point the two of you to this.

My point is that no item is akin to a Minor Artifact, and you claim that several are (raid items, specifically. If you tried to use one of the more powerful ones, such as the SoS, you might begin to have an argument here, but even that I doubt). I asked for proof, and instead of providing proof, you simply state that I'm wrong.

That, for those keeping track, is what we like to call the Burden of Proof. You make a claim. I state there are no facts to support this claim, therefore placing the Burden of Proof upon your shoulders.

Sure, Bob.

In fact, leading to my original point of any item that gives experience is of at least Minor Artifact power.

And this is where YOU make a claim. Back this up with some info. Show me anywhere, in any book where it specifically states any and all items that have an XP benefit are minor artifacts or greater. Certainly any item that gives upto a level and a half is at least a minor artifact... but any weapon with a +10 Bonus is as well. Would an item that gave you +10 Xp and ONLY +10 xp points also be considered a minor artifact? Prove it by citing the above rule.

False advertising and a mistake are not the same. If a restaurant messes up one of my orders, I inform them, and they get it right. While any worker should strive for excellence, mistakes happen. They are, after all, human.

Mistakes or not, anyone in customer service will notify you that you apologize to the customer. If you screw up my order you don't just say "Ahh well, mistakes happen". You apologize.

And many do not, and have given their opinions as to why not, and yet you continue to believe we are attacking you.

Are we reading the same thread?

Now, what we are doing, is stating how bad of an idea we all believe this is. Nothing more, nothing less.

And I could say I think your ideas are moronic, stupid, and idiotic. Certainly, i am simply critiquing the "idea", but imagine any individual in virtually any scenario being talked to like that. Informed their proposal was laughable, ridiculous, and so forth. Tell me, with a straight face, from the boardroom to the classroom, that someone spoken to with such disrespect would not view it as insulting.

If a teacher in a classroom refered to a students work as "moronic" that teacher would likely be at the very least reprimanded. Might even make the news. I understand this is not a professional setting, but the reason for the consequences are the same. A teacher could say "Try harder, try again, rethink this" and no one would bat an eyelash. The teacher comes out and says their work is "ridiculous", or puts the student up in class and refers to their work as "laughable" and you've grounds for a civil suit.

In other words, despite "attacking my idea" as you put it, their attitude is very much one of personal denigration.

[teddok]

Is there any way we can get this guy to stop. All he every does is post the most ******** and stupid things possible. I can not believe the over all amount of stupidity this guy spouts. I mean come on already. Free Healing, Free EXP, what next Free membership and money, Ohhh I know everyone automatically gets all the free raid loot they want. That sound like something he would ask for.
Dude please stop posting.
All you do is make yourself look even dumber (not really sure if it is possible at this point though)
Every time you come out with anything every one is against it. Take a hint.

[teddok]

And now the second worse idea for DDO has been posted....



Instant gratification for the loss!

And both by the same person.

[Aspenor]

I should refrain from saying what I think because "no one likes" what I think? The corollary being that I should go out of my way to tell people ideas that I think will be immensely popular and everyone will love me for saying, ignoring any sense of what I think is right or beneficial... just what everyone ELSE thinks is right.

And no one sees the groupthink?

It's not groupthink. Your ideas are awful.

[teddok]

"Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds." ~ Albert Einstein

His Great ideas were actually great idea's. Yours are complete grabage.

[Aspenor]

Dingo, you need to understand that you don't know what is good for this game. You can assert until you are blue in the face that these are good ideas and all of us are just blind. That's fine, if it makes you feel any better about terrible ideas.

Want just one reason why I would be against this? Experience POTIONS. Seen the elixir thread in General? Ever heard of duping? Think about the consequences of your ideas before you put them forward. If you have half an understanding of the intent of DDO, then you can see your ideas are trash.

btw- thats just one reason this is a terrible idea.

[Tanka]

And this is where YOU make a claim. Back this up with some info. Show me anywhere, in any book where it specifically states any and all items that have an XP benefit are minor artifacts or greater. Certainly any item that gives upto a level and a half is at least a minor artifact... but any weapon with a +10 Bonus is as well. Would an item that gave you +10 Xp and ONLY +10 xp points also be considered a minor artifact? Prove it by citing the above rule.

Sorry, that isn't how this works. You need to prove that your idea for an item doesn't push itself into Artifact land, not the other way around.

Your idea. I asked for proof. You gave me a few items that are artifacts.

There are two cards in the Deck of Many things that grant experience. Two out of 22 is around 10%. Know the funny thing about the Deck of Many Things? It states that each card is its own Artifact.

Mistakes or not, anyone in customer service will notify you that you apologize to the customer. If you screw up my order you don't just say "Ahh well, mistakes happen". You apologize.

An apology and a free item are not one and the same. An apology is something I do not expect, but rather recieve in good grace. If you think that every time a mistake is made you should be plied with gifts, you are the precise reason that the statement "The customer is always right" is dead wrong.

Are we reading the same thread?

Barring just a few posts here and there, yes, we are.

And I could say I think your ideas are moronic, stupid, and idiotic. Certainly, i am simply critiquing the "idea", but imagine any individual in virtually any scenario being talked to like that. Informed their proposal was laughable, ridiculous, and so forth. Tell me, with a straight face, from the boardroom to the classroom, that someone spoken to with such disrespect would not view it as insulting.

If a teacher in a classroom refered to a students work as "moronic" that teacher would likely be at the very least reprimanded. Might even make the news. I understand this is not a professional setting, but the reason for the consequences are the same. A teacher could say "Try harder, try again, rethink this" and no one would bat an eyelash. The teacher comes out and says their work is "ridiculous", or puts the student up in class and refers to their work as "laughable" and you've grounds for a civil suit.

In other words, despite "attacking my idea" as you put it, their attitude is very much one of personal denigration.

Viewing it as insulting and then slinging insults back does not make it okay. Everyone knows this, and yet noone follows it. Why? Because. We're humans. We have faults.

Welcome to humanity.

[Gornin]

"Quote from Dingo123-I'd like to point out that, so far as I know, NOTHING in D&D allows you to remove feats once obtained. If anyone can name an object that lets you respec your feats in D&D, notify me... but I can think of none- Unquote"


Others have already pointed out the Psychic Reformation path. The other is the DM. New products come out all the time, or you realize that your character is not on the path you wanted it to be on. Discuss it with your DM.

The points being made in this thread are that giving MORE free xp is not what most people want. We want content and the actual problems fixed. The XP in a bottle is just not in a bottle. It is in the bonus weekends. They are already doing this.

I am not trying to be nasty, the last two threads you started gave up ideas that would further unbalance a game that already has some serious balance issue.

I am sorry I cannot agree with either one of your threads.

[BUpcott]

Dingo, do you honestly think that we need free XP? In all seriousness there is too much readily available XP.

If somehow this were to get implemented how many XP points do you think should be given at say level 1-4, 5-9, 10-14?

[Tanka]

The biggest thing is that XP is so easy to come by in DDO. Debt is laughable. You can cap a character in three days, less if you have a dedicated group to get there.

Why do we need free XP when you can cap so fast?

What the game doesn't need is free XP. It needs an XP dump like crafting.

[Hendrik]

The biggest thing is that XP is so easy to come by in DDO. Debt is laughable. You can cap a character in three days, less if you have a dedicated group to get there.

Why do we need free XP when you can cap so fast?

What the game doesn't need is free XP. It needs an XP dump like crafting.

I might be able to manage an answer there Tanka. To get XP the real way, adventuring, it takes time, effort, and some semblance of skills. XP pots take none of this and is all about instant gratification. Why adventure when you want to have free XP in a bottle? Drink the pot and wham, a new Level - no effort, no investment, no anything.

There is no sane reason to have this in DDO, PnP cannon not withstanding. The DEV's have a mechanic in place to 'reward' us for unforeseeable errors and major downtime - and that should be used very sparringly to avoid what we are seeing now - the expectation of Loot/XP Weekends for every minor annoyance.

It's not the destination, but the journey that defines us.

People want logical reasons why this is bad, here;

1. Abuse/Duping
2. Detracts DEV's from much more important things.
3. Mechanic in place already for 'rewards'.
4. XP is far to easy to get as is, no need to place it in a bottle.
5. Sets precedent that gifts should be given for every small annoyance - happening now.

[Gornin]

Sorry us out here in the hoi polloi don't see your brilliance Dingo. While I agree some posts are some what insulting, you by far are the most insulting. You discredit all of us as having a herd mentality because we disagree with you. I guess if we agreed with you that would just be right thinking? Especially when you talking about the gaming community. I have found that PnP gamers tend to be much higher on IQ scale than the average, and we tend to be staunch individualists, or else we would not have survived all the put downs about being geeks and weirdos because we liked to play these kind of games - oh - and read a lot too in our formative years. Talk about a superiority complex.

I suppose you agree with the thought that says " to find the IQ of a mob, you take the individual with the highest IQ score, and divide his score by the number of people in the group". HMMM, makes kind of sense, right? Until you realize it was stated by an individual that believed that the masses were ignorant. Sounds like somebody in the government trying to tell us " you wouldn't understand". Sorry, most people recognize bovine excreta when they see and hear it. Especially those of us in the gaming communities.

I have seen several cogent arguments as to why this idea is not necessary nor wanted. Same with your cleric idea. Yes, some people were not very tactful in stating their opinion, still does not make them wrong, hard to listen to, but not wrong.

So, if you want to debate ideas, fine. If most people don't agree with you, take it into consideration that maybe it was not such a good idea. I know you state that you play PnP, so I don't understand your fascination with these ideas that would further unbalance the game. IMO, it seems like you are a power gamer, or a munchkin in the old vernacular. I agree that there are problems in and with the game, but I don't think any of your ideas have been good ones up to this point. I may agree with the next one, or maybe not. Thanks for taking the time to read this, and take it in the spirit it was given. I am not trying to put you down.

[Aspenor]

I won't say that I don't get frustrated... Watch Idiocracy... I feel like the main character. I'm trying to explain something ridiculously simple but it's met with a chorus of laughter. This isn't meant as a cut or a flame, it's just the easiest way to describe how I feel.

Nobody cares how you feel. Just because you liken your situation to a fictitious character is even more amusing. Just because your heros were laughed at for their good ideas doesn't mean that by laughing at you, we're justifying your position.

The reason we're all treating you this way is because you have been consistently wrong on every topic.

[Cowdenicus]

Nobody cares how you feel. Just because you liken your situation to a fictitious character is even more amusing. Just because your heros were laughed at for their good ideas doesn't mean that by laughing at you, we're justifying your position.

The reason we're all treating you this way is because you have been consistently wrong on every topic.

Yeah. QFT

P.S. I am more uber than Aspenor.