Experience Potions.

[Dingo123]

Win what? You seem to be taking a thread rather seriously wherein we all say "no, this is a horrible idea."

Nobody is winning, because this is not a win-lose situation. This is Development Discussion, not "I win because I like this item idea."

I've told you why I think your idea is ridiculous and overpowered. Please, tell me why it isn't.

This IS about winning with you else you wouldn't be saying we can't use D&D precedence for an object in a game based on D&D. People, when desperately seeking to "win" begin reaching for straws, sometimes very weak ones. Like you did.

Either way, to refute you... If I have 10% of the power of a minor artifact I don't have a minor artifact. 10% of the Deck of Many Things is an object that either has a neat effect or will kill you. It's not an artifact.

Is the effect unusual? yes. That's why it's reserved for the developers to dish out. Not something you can just find in a Chest somewhere.

This means every few weeks, or months, when the devs feel they owe us an apology they can hand us this.

I'd like to point out that, so far as I know, NOTHING in D&D allows you to remove feats once obtained. If anyone can name an object that lets you respec your feats in D&D, notify me... but I can think of none.

Yet you seem pretty comfortable with them doling those out like Candy...

[Dingo123]

Let's get down to the meat of this thread: someone has suggested a change. Few people, or none at all agree with his proposal. He has tried to convince them that it makes sense. No progress.

Guess we can safely say this thread is doing little to show the Devs that players want this.

And now people are latching onto the "It's an artifact" argument.

*sigh*

Refer to my "If it has 10% of the power of a minor artifact... it isn't ana rtifact" argument.

Further refer to my "Where in all of Dungeons and Dragons lore is their an object that allows you to respec your feats left and right.

[Denomicon]

And now people are latching onto the "It's an artifact" argument.

*sigh*

Refer to my "If it has 10% of the power of a minor artifact... it isn't ana rtifact" argument.

Further refer to my "Where in all of Dungeons and Dragons lore is their an object that allows you to respec your feats left and right.

I believe the shard is merely the means of payment to Fred, so that he will use his psionic power Psychic Reformation to change your feat. See Here. There is an experience point cost associated with the power, but I believe this cost is approximated by having to wait three days between changing feats.

[Dingo123]

I believe the shard is merely the means of payment to Fred, so that he will use his psionic power Psychic Reformation to change your feat. See Here. There is an experience point cost associated with the power, but I believe this cost is approximated by having to wait three days between changing feats.

Point noted.

[Tanka]

This IS about winning with you else you wouldn't be saying we can't use D&D precedence for an object in a game based on D&D. People, when desperately seeking to "win" begin reaching for straws, sometimes very weak ones. Like you did.

Please, refute my claim. With proof. Anything granting experience is at least of Minor Artifact power. Period.

Either way, to refute you... If I have 10% of the power of a minor artifact I don't have a minor artifact. 10% of the Deck of Many Things is an object that either has a neat effect or will kill you. It's not an artifact.

You quoted the BoVD and BoED as objects granting experience when used. They have another benefit of a +1 inherent bonus to Wisdom, the same bonus a tome gives.

Which is more powerful? The experience, or the meager +1 Wisdom bonus that a tome already grants.

Is the effect unusual? yes. That's why it's reserved for the developers to dish out. Not something you can just find in a Chest somewhere.

This means every few weeks, or months, when the devs feel they owe us an apology they can hand us this.

They should never feel they owe us an apology unless they grossly misrepresent facts or outright lie to us about something.

They are the devs. If you don't like the way the game is going -- either speak up about it or quit paying your subscription fee. Nobody forces you to play after a change fundamentally changes the game. Yet people continue to play and cry about everything.

Know what gets Devs to listen? Good feedback. Not whining. Whining is often ignored.

I'd like to point out that, so far as I know, NOTHING in D&D allows you to remove feats once obtained. If anyone can name an object that lets you respec your feats in D&D, notify me... but I can think of none.

Yet you seem pretty comfortable with them doling those out like Candy...

Do I? Where have I said I wanted free respecs for feats? In fact, I wouldn't mind if they were removed, but there's a problem with that.

When a feat is changed so radically (Mobile Spellcasting, Shot on the Run) that it is almost of no benefit to have, there can be no recourse than to offer a way to remove that ability and have another added.

Additionally, were WotC to change a feat incredibly radically, in my campaign, any players with it would be offered the chance to change that one feat alone if they had it.

In an ever-changing game, such systems must exist, if only because having to make the trek from new character to capped character, including all bound loot, raid or otherwise, as well as all tomes used, is, well, a serious pain in the hoop.

Having downtime is expected in an MMO. The EULA and ToS even reflects this by saying that no compensation will be offered in the event of any downtime. The fact that we have been given such "compensation" (Dragonshards, bonus XP/Loot weekends, etc.) is simply because they were kind enough to give them to us due to continued frustration over a game.

I'm fine with not being compensated for downtime. Some people, however, think that paying $14.99/month is enough to make them feel entitled the world on a platter.

[Arlith]

This means every few weeks, or months, when the devs feel they owe us an apology they can hand us this.

You know way back when the devs first came out with the "we're sorry" bonus I argued against it. Because if you do it once people expect it, and then they expect more. I wish they had never given in the first time. Now everyone just keeps demanding more.

I'd like to point out that, so far as I know, NOTHING in D&D allows you to remove feats once obtained. If anyone can name an object that lets you respec your feats in D&D, notify me... but I can think of none.

And I would like to point out..... Uh, so what?

Yet you seem pretty comfortable with them doling those out like Candy...

I am not comfortable with them handing them out like candy, I wish they never had in the first place.

[Ghoste]

And now people are latching onto the "It's an artifact" argument.

*sigh*

Refer to my "If it has 10% of the power of a minor artifact... it isn't ana rtifact" argument.

Further refer to my "Where in all of Dungeons and Dragons lore is their an object that allows you to respec your feats left and right.

Listen, Mr Spock, the issue is not whether people think it would be 100% logical to fit this into the game. The issue is whether or not people want it. Period.

You obviously do. Anybody else?

If you're trying to actually get something implemented, trying to pile drive "logic" down people's throats doesn't work. Never has, never will. With that goal in mind you would have done far better to focus on just getting short answers from people: "agree or no?" Instead you have a thread that, considering the huge pile of threads asking for changes, or complaining about other changes, no Dev in their right mind is going to go through point by point. The little bit that may get read looks more like a rant followed by people saying you're nuts.

If you're trying to troll, well done. You've got a whole lot of people riled up over a little thing that no Dev has the time to sort through.

If you want to convince people, perhaps a more patient approach. Start by not ridiculing back. You may think logic justifies it, but it's shooting yourself in the foot. You can't call someone an idiot and then expect to teach them something. After you get past that, try showing people why it would actually be good. Listen to the posts people have made expressing concern with how it would add to the syndrome of having less to do when level capped.

Right now, all anyone is seeing is some guy beating his chest about how he is soooooo much more logical than everybody else.

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

Listen, Mr Spock, the issue is not whether people think it would be 100% logical to fit this into the game. The issue is whether or not people want it. Period.

You obviously do. Anybody else?

If you're trying to actually get something implemented, trying to pile drive "logic" down people's throats doesn't work. Never has, never will. With that goal in mind you would have done far better to focus on just getting short answers from people: "agree or no?" Instead you have a thread that, considering the huge pile of threads asking for changes, or complaining about other changes, no Dev in their right mind is going to go through point by point. The little bit that may get read looks more like a rant followed by people saying you're nuts.

If you're trying to troll, well done. You've got a whole lot of people riled up over a little thing that no Dev has the time to sort through.

If you want to convince people, perhaps a more patient approach. Start by not ridiculing back. You may think logic justifies it, but it's shooting yourself in the foot. You can't call someone an idiot and then expect to teach them something. After you get past that, try showing people why it would actually be good. Listen to the posts people have made expressing concern with how it would add to the syndrome of having less to do when level capped.

Right now, all anyone is seeing is some guy beating his chest about how he is soooooo much more logical than everybody else.

Well spoken. Or written. Or typed. Or whatever it is that you do to input this onto the forums.

Master Kadish

[Ghoste]

Well spoken. Or written. Or typed. Or whatever it is that you do to input this onto the forums.

Master Kadish

Thought. I have a telepathic interface with my computer.

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

Thought. I have a telepathic interface with my computer.

D'oh! Why didn't I think of that?!?!?

[Dingo123]

Please, refute my claim. With proof. Anything granting experience is at least of Minor Artifact power. Period.

What's to refute? I've never said otherwise. In case you forgot, I'm the one who pointed out that it existed after you denied it did.

You quoted the BoVD and BoED as objects granting experience when used. They have another benefit of a +1 inherent bonus to Wisdom, the same bonus a tome gives.

Which is more powerful? The experience, or the meager +1 Wisdom bonus that a tome already grants.

Seeing as how it's potentially a level and a half worth of experience... I'd say it's probably the experience. Is that the answer you wanted?

They should never feel they owe us an apology unless they grossly misrepresent facts or outright lie to us about something.

Failure to deliver service, or at the very least, failure to notify us in a timely fashion when such things are coming when they have knowledge beforehand. Dev's mess up. They should apologize whenever we, as customers, are dissattisfied. Like every other business has to. From McDonald's to your local medical institution.

They are the devs. If you don't like the way the game is going -- either speak up about it

(um...?)

Nobody forces you to play after a change fundamentally changes the game. Yet people continue to play and cry about everything.

Would you rather they cry about it on the forums or leave?

Know what gets Devs to listen? Good feedback. Not whining. Whining is often ignored.

Where was I "whining" exactly?

Do I? Where have I said I wanted free respecs for feats? In fact, I wouldn't mind if they were removed, but there's a problem with that.

When a feat is changed so radically (Mobile Spellcasting, Shot on the Run) that it is almost of no benefit to have, there can be no recourse than to offer a way to remove that ability and have another added.

Which is all well and good.

Additionally, were WotC to change a feat incredibly radically, in my campaign, any players with it would be offered the chance to change that one feat alone if they had it.

In an ever-changing game, such systems must exist, if only because having to make the trek from new character to capped character, including all bound loot, raid or otherwise, as well as all tomes used, is, well, a serious pain in the hoop.

*twiddles thumbs*

Having downtime is expected in an MMO. The EULA and ToS even reflects this by saying that no compensation will be offered in the event of any downtime. The fact that we have been given such "compensation" (Dragonshards, bonus XP/Loot weekends, etc.) is simply because they were kind enough to give them to us due to continued frustration over a game.

Please Sir, May I have some more?

I'm fine with not being compensated for downtime. Some people, however, think that paying $14.99/month is enough to make them feel entitled the world on a platter.

That was a pleasant lecture, in rebutt... I just think XP Potions would be superior to Dragonshards.

[BUpcott]

During Times of Development mistakes, or what not... instead of handing out dragon shards (which are largely useless in the long run), hand out Xp Potions which can be gulped and will provide a decent amount of XP for the level. Make them bound and non-tradable and provide XP based on level.

Haven't you learned that no one likes your ideas? why do you keep posting?

[DesertBlue]

Let's get down to the meat of this thread: someone has suggested a change. Few people, or none at all agree with his proposal. He has tried to convince them that it makes sense. No progress.

Guess we can safely say this thread is doing little to show the Devs that players want this.

All I have seen is him defending himself vs attacks. Very few people have actually just said they disagree and here's why.

You sir are WRONG! Visit your local university and sign up for Comm 101 and an Ethics course. Do not come back until you get a C.

[Dingo123]

Haven't you learned that no one likes your ideas? why do you keep posting?

I should refrain from saying what I think because "no one likes" what I think? The corollary being that I should go out of my way to tell people ideas that I think will be immensely popular and everyone will love me for saying, ignoring any sense of what I think is right or beneficial... just what everyone ELSE thinks is right.

And no one sees the groupthink?

[DesertBlue]

Altough I do appreciate you posting suggestions, I have to say that for me, I really do not need to be gifted for anything. The Devs will make mistakes, so be it. If I had to give a gift for every mistake I made every day, Id be living in the streets.

I love this game thats why I play. I dont need a gift when things don't go right. What I would like is better communication and straight answers. "I don't know, but I am working hard and when I do know, I will inform you immediately." is a perfectly acceptable communication for me at this time.

Keep on posting, and ignore the ogres. They are just bored so they mob together and do ogre things.

[Rommalb]

ok, this thread seems horribly derailed and in lieu of a mod closing this thread, I have a few points which need to be said.

First, there are ways to change feats in PnP, Mindrape from the Book of Vile Darkness or Memory Erase (or something similar to that name) from the PHB 2 will remove feats, and wish can actually grant you new feats (albeit at a xp loss).

Second, to Desertblue, you made some comment about how everyone has been just flmaing the OP rather than disagreeing with him, we all disagreed for the first 2 pages and then proceeded to begin flaming as well, this is not the first time he has made posts like this.

Third, to the OP, its not that you should only say what people will like to hear, but rather put some actual thought into your ideas so they dont become laughing stocks of the board. Having lots of ideas is a good thing, but so far between this, your grand cleric plan, and your sorc thread (which admitidly I only briefly glanced through) I have yet to see ONE SINGLE PERSON agree with you. This should be a sign to you. Please, for the love of god, put some thought into your ideas before you make another thread or say something

[ChaosTheEternal]

I will admit being wrong about there being no magic items that players can get that grant XP or levels, though there are none that players should get relatively easily or multiple times, as the only magic items that grant that are artifacts.

I really do not need to be gifted for anything.

I dont need a gift when things don't go right. What I would like is better communication and straight answers. "I don't know, but I am working hard and when I do know, I will inform you immediately." is a perfectly acceptable communication for me at this time.

Which is exactly how it should be.

But knowing of the OP's previous suggestion, you should be able to see why people came into it skeptical, as did I, and why some targeted as they did.

Should we get XP potions for "dev failures"? No.
Should we get dragonshards? No.
Loot and XP weekends? No.

We should get information.

But if they want to hand out goodies, should it really be free experience?



Of course... this is nowhere near the same level as a previous suggestion for peer evaluation for handing out XP. But I don't see handing out XP potions at any time as ever being a good idea.

[SteeleTrueheart]

My Decision: I say No to Experience potions. Interesting idea (if they are bound) and it would be extremely useful for those days that level cap is raised.

(Personally if it was to be implemented, I would go with tomes as it would represent you studying something)

My reasoning:

-If these were handed out there is a possibility of people gaining multiples and using them to gain a full level (or more) without actual gameplay. One of my never played alts has 3 or 4 dragonshards sitting in his backpack.

- When I see a level 14 character I assume that person has played his/her character from level 1-14 and is aware of his/her weaknesses and strengths. Experience not only represents your PC's skill level, but also the Players skill in playing that PC.

- Gaining xp without playing reduces the amount of play time required to level up. This would make all those whingers even worse about lack of content. (before the flaming starts - yes I would like more content)

[Ghoste]

All I have seen is him defending himself vs attacks. Very few people have actually just said they disagree and here's why.

You sir are WRONG! Visit your local university and sign up for Comm 101 and an Ethics course. Do not come back until you get a C.

Is an A good enough? Lol, another self proclaimed brainiac.

So you're saying no people have disagreedwith the actual idea, but just attacked him personally...ok, let's do a recap then:

Posts number 2, 3, 7, 11, 13, 14, 15, 20, 23 (half and half), 25, 26, 27, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 38, 39, 40, 43, 44, 52, 53, 55...you get the point are all specifically attacking the idea. The majority of other posts are by the OP. #42 accuses the op of being the flamer.

If all you "have seen is him defending himself vs attacks" then I have just provided you some specific references to why you are "WRONG!"

If you're trying to feel sorry for the OP, I do too. He definitely isn't helping his situation any. He's getting more and more worked up and just distancing himself from other people more and more. The way to deal with that is not by distancing yourself even more. That is not effective communication.

I sure hope your last line there wasn't trying to imply that a COMM and ethics course would teach me that that is an effective way to deal with conflict in communication. Because if that is what you are implying then the OP's experiences in his last few threads have proven that you are "WRONG!" on that point as well.

[Ghoste]

You missed context bad here

Wrong. The OP never gave any other context other than DDO. After that response he gave the broader context. So the only people "missing" the context at that point in the discussion were the telepaths. I am ashamed to admit that I am among the few who did in fact "miss" the context. I heard him think PnP for a fleeting second, but my own thoughts just wandered back to DDO.

You seem to like handing out consequences to people who are wrong, let's see if you'll follow your own advice and please not post for one year...of course you wont, you're just blatantly flaming. What you are doing lacks any sense of multi-directional communication, which leads to another tidbit of advice you handed down...