With the change to /death

[Riddikulus]

First, you can only have 100 pots in a stack (my potion-packing fighter knows that!)

I stand corrected. I must have them confused with something else.

Second, if they removed cure serious potions, it would put an even bigger strain on the resources of clerics.

No it wouldn't. It would force people to use better tactics or die. It would be a painful transition, but it would happen eventually.

My ability to self-heal would be nixed because I'm not going to refill my 350hp self on cure light wounds potions. Besides, if you thought it was silly to carry 200 CSW pots, just imagine if folks were packing 600 CLW pots instead?

I'd be all for just eliminating the vendors altogether, turning them all into brokers instead. So you won't have a problem with 600 CLW pots either.

[ahpook]

I am requesting a potion to cure feeblemind.

Currently, the only way to cure it is to die, or to have the heal spell cast on you. Well if you are the cleric and get feebleminded in a quest you are basically screwed, because you have to die (xp penalty), get zoned out of the quest (-20% xp), and hope you can make it back to the quest.

A potion to cure the effect can solve the issue.

Well, this is misleading because you don't have to /death first. Simply recall. Get healed at a tavern and run back. No death penalty. Just 'cause you used to /death to solve the problem doesn't mean you still have to. I wouldn't mind a means to cure feeblemind but this comment hit my nitpick radar.

Whatever does come out of this, it won't be potions of heal.

I'm not particularly fond of effects that render some characters permanently-until-fixed, not-dead, but unplayable,

I don't know why you would have a problem with this. Death is unplayable (and due to the graphics much more irritating) and we are (obviously) OK with that. Last night our bard died in the first 10 feet of the dungeon and we had to drag him along through the first half of the quest until we found a shrine. I doubt that was any more fun more for him than if he followed along due to feeblemindedness.

[Tanka]

I'd be all for just eliminating the vendors altogether, turning them all into brokers instead. So you won't have a problem with 600 CLW pots either.

I think the game needs more money sinks, not less.

This means keeping potions in. And I feel people should carry potions, but most don't. I keep 300 CSW on my fighter. I burn through about 150 when soloing WK and Chains.

When restocking that many in the desert (bad choice, but I'm too lazy to run out to House K or J), it costs me about 20kpp+. And that's not even counting Haste potions.

[binnsr]

With 4 L14 chars I think I just had a noob moment... Are the prices of potions/wands/scrolls not the same at every vendor?

*shakes head* man I need to pay more attention to the little details...

lol.. you're not the only one

[Lorien_the_First_One]

When restocking that many in the desert (bad choice, but I'm too lazy to run out to House K or J), it costs me about 20kpp+. And that's not even counting Haste potions.

With 4 L14 chars I think I just had a noob moment... Are the prices of potions/wands/scrolls not the same at every vendor?

*shakes head* man I need to pay more attention to the little details...

[Tanka]

With 4 L14 chars I think I just had a noob moment... Are the prices of potions/wands/scrolls not the same at every vendor?

*shakes head* man I need to pay more attention to the little details...

Yup. If you've done certain quests, each House and the Marketplace gives you a discount (and I think the Harbor too). House K's is CoK, and the potions afterwards are about 80pp with Cha 6 and 0 Haggle. Cha 12, Haggle 13 item, a GH and a Good Luck 2 (Head of Good Fortune) brings it to ~78pp for one (if memory serves, I'll double check tonight).

In the Desert, they're about 82pp per after all those buffs.

Ed: My memory might be off, actually. Maths not adding up. Or I'm not paying attention to my own cash and 150 CSWs isn't 20kpp. Closer to 12kpp.

[Ustice]

Good question. Maybe that's the simplest solution of them all.

There is a problem with this. What if the cleric gets it twice? Since you can only use the rest shrine once, it prevents this from being a viable solution.

There are several possible solutions:

• Have some items that have the Heal affect (maybe a rod/staff?)
• Have a periodic save, although I do not like this since it would mean that you just sit around and wait while your cleric puts his head on straight. That could slow the game down considerably.
• Change the rest shrine mechanics so that they can be used multiple times (Like Rez shrines). This will of course take a bit of a rethink. Maybe have a 1 in 6 chance of a random mob spawn (and interupt the rest) when resting, but you can use it several times. It would certainly help with the problem for clerics needing so many wands and scrolls.

[GramercyRiff]

Good question. Maybe that's the simplest solution of them all.

Perhaps, when you guys make a change, you should think of that changes ramifications first.

[Dragonhyde]

Whatever does come out of this, it won't be potions of heal.

I'm not particularly fond of effects that render some characters permanently-until-fixed, not-dead, but unplayable, even if "that's the rules!". Feeblemind may end up with occasional re-saves (Like Flesh to Stone), just so eventually it will go away if you don't have a friendly Cleric, Sov. Host Paladin, or UMD class with you on a long quest.


The effect you're looking for is "Panacea", also too high level to fit into a potion. Certainly a worthwhile spell to put on "the list" though.

So we will be changing the game mechanics to make it easier and less challenging by adding potions to get rid of all bad things. There are already several ways to get a cure for feeblemind. I even have a halfling fighter who can cast heal from his dragonmark.

[Katrina]

If the cleric is below lvl 9 then he can't even put the scroll in his hand.

Not to be nitpicky but the minimum level is 7 for a heal scroll. You can use one on a successful caster check. I forget how the roll works but as I was moving my lowbie cleric through the levels I could heal on a roll over 10.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Perhaps, when you guys make a change, you should think of that changes ramifications first.

That is why it's on a beta server. The best way to ferret out the truly important ramifications is to throw them out there and see what sticks.

[Capstern]

Does anyone have any idea about what would happen to Kargon if we gave him a potion to cure feeblemind?

[Alavatar]

Am I mis-reading something? I thought that Feeblemind only affected INT and CHA. If WIS is not affected, then why can't clerics cast Heal on themselves?

[Tanka]

Am I mis-reading something? I thought that Feeblemind only affected INT and CHA. If WIS is not affected, then why can't clerics cast Heal on themselves?

It stops spellcasting ability as well.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Edit: Though I'm not entirely sure what the specifics will end up being. Can someone with the intellect of a lizard know which potion to drink, or should someone feed it to them?

I must strongly disagree. Feeblemind is a high level magic malady and it takes a party Cleric or Brother/Sister to remove it. If you add a potion to cure it, people will next be asking for Potions of Greater Restoration for their 10 negative levels. Then Potions of Raise Dead. (aside from once a year, semi-rare jelly cakes. those are neat-o. )

There are still MANY ways to die in a quest without /death if you have no Cleric in the party and don't want to exit/reenter the quest. Please don't pander to the mob just because they haven't thought outside of their /death box.

I also disagree with Feeblemind being removed by a Shrine. Death should NOT be the only recourse. I do, however, agree with Arcanes needing a spell that will remove it. As Shade said, in PnP we have Limited Wish and Wish. I understand that we will probably never get those in DDO, but maybe Greater Dispel Magic or Break Enchantment could also remove Feeblemind.

[tihocan]

There is so much wrong with this. Does everyone just want an "Easy Button" for everything? Do you really think you should win everytime? /death because you have curse on you is silly.

The fact is, if devs didn't want us to die on purpose to get rid of this kind of negative effects, these effects would just not disappear when dying. Note how they instead changed Curse to be removed when dying... so we can purposedly die when we want to get rid of it.

This change to /death will not prevent us from dying on purpose in such situations, and thus does not "fix" anything for this. There must be other exploits involved and changing /death must have been the easy way to fix them.

So my complaint was mainly that, instead of doing whatever needs to be done to fix these exploits, they changed /death, resulting in giving us player more trouble with no effective change in gameplay mechanics (since we can still find ways to die when we want to).

[Shamguard]

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Edit: Though I'm not entirely sure what the specifics will end up being. Can someone with the intellect of a lizard know which potion to drink, or should someone feed it to them?

I don't know about that, but I see managers drink from the right coffee pot every morning.
Of course they only have a couple to choose between.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

This change to /death will not prevent us from dying on purpose in such situations, and thus does not "fix" anything for this. There must be other exploits involved and changing /death must have been the easy way to fix them.).

Whatever their intent, stopping this silly play is a good side benefit.

What they were stopping, just from the things I know of, are at least three cases where it was easier to make it through an area while dead and being carried by an evasion build. At least one of these cases allowed for the easier completion of a raid.

[Riddikulus]

There is a problem with this. What if the cleric gets it twice? Since you can only use the rest shrine once, it prevents this from being a viable solution.

If the cleric is getting feebleminded more than once per shrine, then there are other issues at play here.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...

[Shade]

It was posted in another thread..

While incap you will be able to /death and not auto release.

As such, just going into a fight with suicide in mind will have the same results as the old /death, so the elimination of this tactic doesn't result in a new problem of someone stuck feeblemind for a long time, it requires a more realistic way of getting killed.

Anyways, just posting because im not a fan of making up new rules because someone thinks that something maybe might be bad in some case in the future here.. Let there be a precident before you make new rules imo. I doubt there will be.