With the change to /death

[Riddikulus]

Well, if you have a Cleric with you, they can make a Caster Level check to use a Heal scroll. Might take a couple of tries, but they'll get it eventually.

I'd prefer that they just eliminate heal scrolls. Seriously.

[Tanka]

If the cleric is below lvl 9 then he can't even put the scroll in his hand.

Shows how much I know about Clerics.

(I've tried my hand at two. I'm not a caster-player.)

[BUpcott]

There is other stuff that makes your character permanently unplayable until he dies: negative levels and blindness. And, to a lesser extent, Bestow Curse (once it can be "cured" by death).
In these situations, /death seems like a valid tactics to me. It has the same effect as finding a group of mob (or some high enough fall) to kill you, and is less cumbersome. I'd really prefer if it stayed that way.

you can already drink a pot for blindness. And even a cleric with X neg levels can still cast restoration to get rid of those levels. The /death tactic for neg levels was just to save sp, 1 rez would cost less than a couple restorations.

[Riddikulus]

Shows how much I know about Clerics.

(I've tried my hand at two. I'm not a caster-player.)

Of course at that point you could argue a level 8 cleric shouldn't be in a level 10-12 quest.

[Tanka]

Of course at that point you could argue a level 8 cleric shouldn't be in a level 10-12 quest.

They should absolutely be in TS on Normal. It used to be the XP farm run for 7-10.

But at that time, Feeblemind wasn't in the game, so you didn't have to worry about it. Now you need at least one L9 Cleric to get rid of it, and maybe two just in case the Cleric gets it.

Easier if you go 8-11, but the 11s in the group tear away some XP.

Eh, whatever. Perhaps they should strip Feeblemind out of TSN/TSH and leave it in TSE.

[Mirta]

Whatever does come out of this, it won't be potions of heal.

I'm not particularly fond of effects that render some characters permanently-until-fixed, not-dead, but unplayable, even if "that's the rules!". Feeblemind may end up with occasional re-saves (Like Flesh to Stone), just so eventually it will go away if you don't have a friendly Cleric, Sov. Host Paladin, or UMD class with you on a long quest.


The effect you're looking for is "Panacea", also too high level to fit into a potion. Certainly a worthwhile spell to put on "the list" though.

Not like this game strictly follows the rules anyway. So many rules are broken to pimp out mobs. Why not break one or two to actually benefit us players? Just give us heal potions and be done with it.

[Tanka]

Not like this game strictly follows the rules anyway. So many rules are broken to pimp out mobs. Why not break one or two to actually benefit us players? Just give us heal potions and be done with it.

Uh, because a 100pt refresh would be stupid broken if it came in potion form?

[BUpcott]

Not like this game strictly follows the rules anyway. So many rules are broken to pimp out mobs. Why not break one or two to actually benefit us players? Just give us heal potions and be done with it.

Cause that is highly overpowered. A potion that heals 100+ HP!

[tihocan]

you can already drink a pot for blindness.

Obviously. However at low levels there are many people (mostly new players) who do not necessarily carry them.

And even a cleric with X neg levels can still cast restoration to get rid of those levels.

You don't necessarily have a cleric with you.

The /death tactic for neg levels was just to save sp, 1 rez would cost less than a couple restorations.

And my point is, you can still die by other ways in order to achieve the same goal, it's just going to be a bit more annoying. Whatever this change is supposed to fix, I doubt there was no other way to do it...

[rpasell]

There is other stuff that makes your character permanently unplayable until he dies: negative levels and blindness. And, to a lesser extent, Bestow Curse (once it can be "cured" by death).
In these situations, /death seems like a valid tactics to me. It has the same effect as finding a group of mob (or some high enough fall) to kill you, and is less cumbersome. I'd really prefer if it stayed that way.

There is so much wrong with this. Does everyone just want an "Easy Button" for everything? Do you really think you should win everytime? /death because you have curse on you is silly. A potion of curse is a simple thing to carry around. Negative levels? Good for the mob that did it to you. I ran around the Catacombs (I think it was Catacombs maybe it was Necro) with 3 negative levels till I could shrine each one away. I couldn't hit much, but I made it. Blindness? Again carry a potion, or use blindness ward. It's not like getting a blindness ward item is difficult, they drop like candy.

Maybe your right though, maybe there should be no strategy or preparation needed in the game. Maybe it should be a game where all you have to do is run around wildly swinging and casting at everything in sight, nothing ever fights back, and we can all blissfully power level our way to cap without ever facing a challenge. What.........World of Warcraft already does that? Oh sorry didn't know.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I'm not particularly fond of effects that render some characters permanently-until-fixed, not-dead, but unplayable,.

good point

Any particular reason why you can't just make shrines cure feeblemind?
.

Good question. Maybe that's the simplest solution of them all.

Excellent idea. I think feeblemind should hurt a lot but as Eladrin said, no point making a char completely unplayable. This is a great compromise and is constant with how DDO now treats some other long term disabling effects.

[BUpcott]

Obviously. However at low levels there are many people (mostly new players) who do not necessarily carry them.


You don't necessarily have a cleric with you.


And my point is, you can still die by other ways in order to achieve the same goal, it's just going to be a bit more annoying. Whatever this change is supposed to fix, I doubt there was no other way to do it...

considering the idea of this thread leaned more towards a cleric getting feebleminded and not being able to take care of it with a heal scroll, having another cleric cast heal, etc etc

[Riddikulus]

Cause that is highly overpowered. A potion that heals 100+ HP!

It's not any more overpowered than a stack of 200 CSW pots.

[BUpcott]

It's not any more overpowered than a stack of 200 CSW pots.

Yes it is. 4-5 CSW pots would equal 1 heal pot. Better yet why not just give every class a couple 100 point LoHs.

[Tanka]

I understand that.

But having 200 CSW pots (per slot mind you) is broken overpowered anyway, so what's the big deal about heal?

Because a CSW is ~25HP. Every six seconds.

A Heal is 100HP. Every six seconds.

100HP is a far, far bigger buffer than 25HP. If you're soloing or trying to get your party to a Rez shrine by your lonesome, popping one of those is much, much better than popping 5 CSWs over the course of half a minute.

It's returns. One 100HP pot means I can continue swinging unabated without any issue. Five 25HP pots is at least 5 seconds where I'm not swinging, and probably more because you're running away to heal up.

Ed: Ninja!

[Riddikulus]

Yes it is. 4-5 CSW pots would equal 1 heal pot. Better yet why not just give every class a couple 100 point LoHs.

I understand that.

But having 200 CSW pots (per slot mind you) is broken overpowered anyway, so what's the big deal about heal?


But that's beside my main point anyway... All of these should just be eliminated. You can buy CLW pots, maybe CMW pots and that's it. Every other kind of healing should be a limited treasure item IMO.

[binnsr]

I understand that.

But having 200 CSW pots (per slot mind you) is broken overpowered anyway, so what's the big deal about heal?


But that's beside my main point anyway... All of these should just be eliminated. You can buy CLW pots, maybe CMW pots and that's it. Every other kind of healing should be a limited treasure item IMO.

First, you can only have 100 pots in a stack (my potion-packing fighter knows that!)
Second, if they removed cure serious potions, it would put an even bigger strain on the resources of clerics. My ability to self-heal would be nixed because I'm not going to refill my 350hp self on cure light wounds potions. Besides, if you thought it was silly to carry 200 CSW pots, just imagine if folks were packing 600 CLW pots instead?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I understand that.

But having 200 CSW pots (per slot mind you) is broken overpowered anyway, so what's the big deal about heal?


But that's beside my main point anyway... All of these should just be eliminated. You can buy CLW pots, maybe CMW pots and that's it. Every other kind of healing should be a limited treasure item IMO.

I'd agree with that if we had the HP we are supposed to. Unfortunately this game has turned into HP madness and we are running around with the hitpoints a diety should have. We therefore need more access to healing potions than you would expect in D&D.

Part of me wouldn't mind seeing healing scrolls and cure serious wands dispear from the vendors. I do enjoy using them but if they didn't exist it would make the players more self reliant and possibly more careful. (eh, who am i kidding)

[Tanka]

But that's beside my main point anyway... All of these should just be eliminated. You can buy CLW pots, maybe CMW pots and that's it. Every other kind of healing should be a limited treasure item IMO.

Since this was added after I replied, I'm addressing it separately.

The Craft Potion feat allows spells of up to 3rd level be made into potions. Which is up to CSW potions.

So there's the reason CSWs exist -- because they exist in PnP as per the crafting feat's specifications. It's why no Cure Crit pots exist.

[samhuinn]

So out of those, only one we have is heal.
So another cleric could heal it. If none in the party, someone could use a heal scroll on the cleric to cure it (anyone with 20+ umd can do that, given enough rolls)
If no one has the spell or enough umd, theres still a way.. Infact the cleric can cure it himself. Simply aquire the black dragonscale armor and activate it to heal youself. Or another party member with said armor can do it.

While id like potions of heal... Without some serious restrictions they would be very overpowered in the current game. Maybe if they only dropped in stacks of say 5, as ultra rare loot, like +2 tome rare.. And weighed so much that only a 40+ str barbarian could even carry them, perhaps theyd be good... But as a regular potion... would make it a bit too easy for the tanks to stay alive.

Of the spells listed (why doesn't it quote your quote??) the only other one we are even high enough to cast is Limited Wish (Sorc/Wiz 7), all the others are 9th level spells. I don't see why this spell can't be implemented in a limited fashion. Would give another viable and less costly option to Feeblemind and add a fairly standard D&D spell to the game.

Limited Wish
Universal
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, XP
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: See text
Target, Effect, or Area: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: None; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

A limited wish lets you create nearly any type of effect. For example, a limited wish can do any of the following things.

* Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 6th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you.
* Duplicate any other spell of 5th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you.
* Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level or lower, even if it’s of a prohibited school.
* Duplicate any other spell of 4th level or lower, even if it’s of a prohibited school.
* Undo the harmful effects of many spells, such as geas/quest or insanity.
* Produce any other effect whose power level is in line with the above effects, such as a single creature automatically hitting on its next attack or taking a -7 penalty on its next saving throw.

A duplicated spell allows saving throws and spell resistance as normal (but the save DC is for a 7th-level spell). When a limited wish duplicates a spell that has an XP cost, you must pay that cost or 300 XP, whichever is more. When a limited wish spell duplicates a spell with a material component that costs more than 1,000 gp, you must provide that component.
XP Cost

300 XP or more (see above).

Obviously some adjustments would have to be made, but seems like a decent option to me.