Make Clerical Healing Spells Cost No SP.

[Zenako]

Sojourner speaks the truth...

My cleric usually incurs minimal costs during quests. I generally run with some skilled players with good gear. But when not, I speak up, I let others know what we should be expecting and what they should not be expecting.

even Madstone will be group dependant. Sometimes it can almost be a breeze, other times a royal pain in the butt.

[PaintHorseCowboy]

Madstone crater on elite, no wand usage (by the cleric), no scroll usage (raise dead, heal, or otherwise), went just fine. We completed it with no deaths.

I did not run out of spell points. I am not a capped character. I do not have a +6 Wisdom item.

I do, however, have just over 1,200 spell points on him. I also have the potential for more as I can still turn level 14, eat a +2 Wisdom tome at 1,750 favor, and acquire a +6 Wisdom item. For the record, that's more than my level 14, xp and favor capped, wizard who is sitting at 1,218 spell points. By the way, my wizard has maximum intelligence but did not take improved mental toughness, electing instead to allocate his feat differently. Also, for the record, my cleric is heavily heal specialized, to the point of being called a "heal-bot" by some.

The idea of being able to cast something as critical as a heal spell for free is absolutely absurd. It goes hand-in-hand with the suggestion (a little further down the list) of allowing casters to cast combat spells for free.

Let's take a look at this using HEAL as an example. You have how many level 6 spell slots, three, maybe four (not sure as my cleric isn't xp capped yet). Using standard PnP rules, that means you could cast HEAL three times every shrine in this game. Now think about how many times you probably cast it between shrines.

Do you really want to continue complaining about this when, if they made the game play like PnP (which the stated intention as far as I'm aware was to make it play as closely to PnP as possible), you would be using even more wands and scrolls than you already do?

Fortunately, the developers realized that that type of system would be unworkable for an MMO, resulting in the exacerbation of the "problem" you are describing. So they came up with the spell point variant which, in fact, works VERY well.

I respect your right to have and post your opinion, however I cannot agree with it. Personally, I have no spell point difficulties on my cleric. Yes, I carry scrolls. I carry several types of them in fact including, Heal, Raise Dead, Resurrect, and Greater Restoration. This probably stems from my time in the Boyscouts with the motto of "Be Prepared." However, at this point, the only ones I'm using on an even semi-regular basis are the Greater Restoration scrolls. The reason is, I do not have the spell memorized because I find I need other spells more often and have them memorized instead. On rare occasions I will use a Heal or Raise/Resurrect scroll but only if I am out of spell points with which to cast it. That only happens when things go particularly badly.

If you find yourself in many pickup groups, limit the number of scrolls/wands you will use/carry. If the group needs more healing, suggest they pitch a few pieces of platnium or wands/scrolls your direction. Any good group in PnP would help their cleric if he was having "financial difficulties" so it's not unreasonable to expect something similar here. I am not saying charge per heal, I am saying it's okay to ask for a small amount to defray the cost. Even those of us you have termed as "elitist", who are mostly self-sufficient and heal ourselves between battles, only requiring a CSW or Heal or two during heavy combat, will generally pitch a little cash your way if you ask in a polite manner. If they don't, not everyone has a team mentality and you can feel free to exercise your right not to group with them again. However, I'd suggest being careful of how much/how often you're using this as players, despite the popular opinion of some, do talk to each other. Sometimes about other players. If it looks like you're using this scheme to become "independantly wealthy" and taking advantage of other players generosity, you might find your source of income drying up. Personally, I fail to see how clerics can complain they are broke all the time. With the Charisma score and allocated skill points into Haggle, and a little item swapping, my level 13 Cleric, with no help from my other characters is sitting on a half million platnium. More than enough to buy your way through several adventures, no matter how badly they go.

I am also like most healing clerics in the fact that I hate seeing party members die. I will do the utmost to keep them on their feet, however, if a person is playing in a completely ignorant manner, I also have no problems ceasing to refill their mana sponge, watching them die, then pitching their stone at the next shrine we come to. If they elect not to use the rest portion of the shrine while I'm standing next to it (so they get the benefit of my heal skill), then they can drink their own potions to heal themselves. "What? You're not carrying potions on your Dwarven Barbarian? Hmm...sure you don't want to use that shrine?"

I've got deep pockets on my cleric, however, that does not mean that I reward unintelligent play with continued heals thereby reinforcing their play style. I am speaking mostly to/of the player who constantly over-rates their abilities, runs off alone, gets massive attention from mobs, then runs back screaming "HEAL ME!" Sorry mate, but you just went to the bottom of the list when you're so far away from the rest of the party, who incidentely is still mopping up the remainder of the fight you pulled to us previously, that your name is unselectable. I hope you brought some potions.

Again, I respect your right to have and post your opinion, but I cannot agree with it.

/not signed

[Kalanth]

/HELL NO!

I just retired my 14th lvl Cleric (straight class is boring, but that is another conversation). Even though he only just barely hit 1000+ SP thanks to an item I never had a problem healing. To remove the SP cost would be to make the game so ungodly easy that no one would want to play it.

[Dharma]

This is for Winded

Anytime you wanna do a run and see me use little to no wands and scrolls look me up. In addition, for your comment about the reaver preraid unless you read the entire thread don't comment on me. My reference was related to someone stating that is the only quest you should need wands/scrolls in GH. Which I endeavored to show as incorrect.

Khyber - Dhorin (14clr) 1295sp

[Aspenor]

This has to be some kind of joke.

[Roguewiz]

This has to be some kind of joke.

Dingo123
Community Member ----->Join Date: Aug 2007 <-----

[binnsr]

I do, however, have just over 1,200 spell points on him. I also have the potential for more as I can still turn level 14, eat a +2 Wisdom tome at 1,750 favor, and acquire a +6 Wisdom item.

Was about to ask you about how you hit 1300 without a +2/3 tome and +6 item ..

the best I could figure for a 12clr with +1tome and +4/5 wis item was 1240 - that would be 30wis [18+1tome+3lvl+3clrwis+1hum+4item], all the enhancements and a magi item.

Absolute max, according to my calculations is: 1361 (34 wis , enhancements and wiz VII item*)

then I saw this: "Last edited by PaintHorseCowboy : 08-27-2007 at 11:05 AM. Reason: I typo'd the number of SP and just caught it. 1,200, not 1,300. " so never mind..


* I've never seen one of these, but hear they exist..

[Charmazal]

op: silly idea.

That's like asking wizards to have free crowd control spells because it's imposing on their nuke time.

I'd rather they dropped the price of the resistance spells or even heal spells but to completely abolish is just too far.

Think about this part too - if healing was free then everyone would have 1 level of cleric. Which then means pure clerics woulnd't get groups, then we'd be back upset about how tough clerics have it - and then another change - and then anotehr.. and it's a big circle of ****.

Leave it be. The best I've been able to do is get my groups to snag pharian resists before the level starts and thats about it.

[Nott]

No SP? why not spam cast healing and so you never lose? What's that... too much delay between being able to cast cures? Turbine should reduce recast time to fix that. While they're at it, my easy button needs a recharge kthx~

Making healing have zero cost (SP / items / platinum / time / whatever) would be among the worst changes this game could ever see. Fortunately, Turbine, while not perfect in their decision making, is certainly astute enough to realize that.

[teddok]

Bro April Fools day is still a few months away.
You are kidding right. I mean this is all a big farce right.

Please say your joking. I might have a exempt you from my no flaming rule if your not.

[Steam313]

Ok, as a cleric and it being my first and only, I must say depending on your playstyle, yes a cleric doesn't have enough spell points, BUT you have shrines for that, scrolls, and potions!!! If your running out of SP in 2-3 small battles your either not buffing your group properly, your spell penetration is bad, your trying to take too much of a primary role, or your playing with a bad group. As my cleric is currently my one and only, I have amassed enough cash and goods to keep myself and my party alive for a very long time. (honestly if your a cleric worth your salt ASK YOUR GROUP FOR DONATIONS! 90% will help you out with wands/scrols/plat, I have even had people donate 100k pp just for 1 good no-death run!) If you research your toon, find out what gear works best for you play style and and what you want to do with that cleric, you can assume a hybrid (non-melee) role of support spellcaster WHILE healing. I did extensive research on these forums b4 i hit lvl 6 with my cleric to see what area i wanted to take him in. I foudn all of the gear in the static/non-static loot threads i wanted, wrote it all down on paper, and went OCD getting everything I needed, from the Invaders! healing mace, to my chaosguardes, to my black drasonscale plate all in less than one month. I never once bought anything from the auctions, everything was either traded from something i found or pulled personally.

I myself am an ocd bar filler, if its not full im not happy cause i feel like i'm not doing my job. I usually spend 20-30k plat on a full bag of CSW wands, i carry 20 raise dead scrolls, and i dont carry anything else but that and my gear and my reagents. no heal scrolls, no buff wands, nothing it all comes out of my SP pool and I still have the ability to buff, heal, and support cast when its necessary. (and all this geqar while it costs, it lasts well over a week!) I use destructon, Blade barrier, Symbol of fear and stunning, and banishment depending on the circumstances and i still am able to keep a party topped off with SP. I'm not teling your "LTP Scrub!" i'm simply enlightening you on the fact that yes, a cleric is a money sink. but if you think for just a second and take advantage that you are the REASON the group lives or dies, and simply and politely ask for small donations usually a group will either help you out or even go get you what you need! If you really want to play a cleric go ahead try it, its ture that its playstyle does not suit everyone and honestly if you want to be able to heal and have a massive spell pool to cast offensive stuff make a sorc/cleric hybrid and build a toon the way you want to. No one is making you do 14 straight lvls of cleric for EVERY spell in the Divine tree. You make your character the way you want, Splash a few lvls of sorc in there for the +sp*2 from items and get some basic well working offensive spells! or if you want a non-pirmary healer make a battle cleric and go melee/hybrid spellcaster.

In short, a cleric can be whatever you want it to be, from a pure heal-bot (which is the way mine is built) to a battle-cleric, to a support role caster its all on how you want to play it and gear it. Dont let people pigeon hole you into being a healbot if you dont wanna... politely tell them your not made for main-healing and ask they get a healbot in addition to you.

-Castar of Heals
Lv 14 Cleric
185 HP
1300 SP
28pt build

/end ramble

[Lizzybrat]

*I* don't even play a Cleric...

I think this sentence says it all.

[Vi'Aed]

With all due respect to the Op, I would be intensely against this idea. As I have stated in other threads, I think healing is far too easy as it is now.

The real issue is that the Cleric bears the brunt of party problems. If something isn't going well then the Cleric is spamming heals and quickly running out of sp. This can be mitigated with heavy expenditures in wands and scrolls. But that is the thing, the burden of problems ends up on the Cleric as the safety net of the party.

The problem might be (often is) with either other party members being sp drains or the party just not really being up to the quest. If a cleric is blowing through heal wands and scrolls maybe the party shouldn't be dong that quest.

As I have stated in other threads, this issue comes down to parties that shouldn't being doing quests are doing them bolstered by cleric consumables. My inclination would be to limit the availability (ala FW scrolls) of heal scrolls and wands above cure mod.

[BurnerD]

My main is a cleric and I don't see an issue with spell points. I use a few wands here and there, and also some heal scrolls, but they are used by choice, and not necessarily by absolute need.

No matter what class you play it is always important to remember that you don't have to kill very monster and every mob by yourself! This is the main reason why casters of any type burn through all of the sp's quickly. A caster using good tactics casts cc or insta death spells when necessary rather than every encounter.. more often than not the fighters can handle the smaller mobs. When the balance of the encounter is off a greater command and a destruction or two from a cleric can be a great balancer, but when the fighters are squaring off against opponents they should be able to handle fairly easily there is no need to destruct or finger of death them. Likewise if the melee classes approach an encounter sensibly by letting the right person take aggro then the cleric and casters can once again cast more efficiently. Nothing like watching a ranger or rogue go grab aggro before the tank can.

Spell points are more than sufficient when tactics are employed. If you PUG the higher level quests (which I do frequently) then be prepared to spend a little plat.

[Dkmafia]

Listen... Clerics don't have enough SP.

They don't. They live off wands, they live off scrolls.

Whatever.

They don't have enough SP.

Clerics hardcore spec'd just for healing often have not enough SP.


So...

Just let Clerics cast their spontaneous healing spells for free.


Seriously. It would dramatically improve the game.


Listen, eventually it becomes an issue of how deep the Clerics pockets are... not skill... not SP management... but how many wands you have on you... how many heal scrolls.

It's got to stop.

So make Clerical healing free.

Test it.

Try it.

See for yourself.

Tell your tanks to get some armor and your mages to stop casting PK and you will have plenty of mana.

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

Bro April Fools day is still a few months away.
You are kidding right. I mean this is all a big farce right.

Please say your joking. I might have a exempt you from my no flaming rule if your not.

Exactly my thoughts... Dingo123 has made some other similar threads as well just recently... See "Rumor: Druids/Monks got the Boot" (How a player of less than a month has somehow gotten this idea I've no clue) and "I'm afraid of Sorcerors..." (Ummmm... suffice to say that without looking into the thread I thought that the only logical reason for such a title was PvP play).

Dingo123
Community Member ----->Join Date: Aug 2007 <-----

Interesting that he is suggesting such revolutionary changes to the game having not even experienced it for a month.

Master Kadish

[Lebrac]

this has probably been said in this post but i don't feal like reading thehole thing cause it's just plane silly. but i will chime in and say a CLERIC that only heals is a CRAPY cleric... u save alot more mana by useing some of your CC spells taht u have witch are some of the TOP CC in the game to keep things from damaging your party and u have PLENTY of SPS to go around and then your not a healbot.

[Vizer]

i play a cleric and this has to be a joke from the OP ....


lvl 13 and have 1036 ( with staff of magi i put on be for rest 1086) sp and on a group of six i spend justs under half sp on fire acid and other elm resist that the mobs are using also deathward on every one i give them mine cuz it 30 pts resist rather than 20 pt you get from house j/p and mass buffs shield of faith and aid and still got sp for heals and for comet fall gtr command and divine power once in awile

i will use wands to top off or back up heal when low on sp i reseve some sp for rezs when we find a shrine ill cast out us DV DH so that party mebers thet dont rest canve be full on HP and SP
(i want to go full clr any idea how to get more sp? thxs in advance)

[teddok]

I can take my Bard through most any of these quests with out a cleric and have no problem keeping up with both the healing and the buffing NP using very little in the way of wands. (I keep forgetting about the big stack of Heal scroll she carries also if that is any indication of how rarly I use them.)
This is with my Bard. Now if a Bard can do it I see now reason why a cleric cant.

[PaintHorseCowboy]

*I* don't even play a Cleric...

I think this sentence says it all.

I'm going to add just one more comment after reading the sentence quoted earlier about the fact the OP doesn't even play a cleric....

I will even go so far as to speculate that he's just mad because some cleric like myself found a giant mana sponge, quit healing him, and threw his stone at a shrine for the 10th or 15th time in a quest.

See post on Heavy Fortification items and where to get them discussed in previous Xoriat Server discussion.

BAM! It's either the sound of that hasted ogre knocking a home run shot with your head ... or ... the sound of your cleric's boot connecting with your arse in an effort to dislodge your head. Your choice really.

See also response further down:

You forgot one. Or it's the sound of your party throwing your soulstone against the shrine for the 15th time because you refuse to play smart and insist on acting like a complete idiot.