I'm afraid of Sorcerors...

[Dingo123]

I've been mulling about this... and I have to say... I'm concerned.

What will Sorcerors be like at level 20?

Currently... Sorcerors can kill with a word, charm constantly, raise the dead, heal like mad, and lob damage spells left and right, and can come equipped with more than a few rather useful buffs.

I've seen Sorcs cure blindness, disease, paralysis. I've seen Sorcs raise the dead. I've seen Sorcs wand heal very very well... and in some ways, I've seen Sorcs... well... Tank.

Yeah, Sorcs can... in a backhanded way, tank.

When a Sorceror charms five guys... that's what he's doing. He's tanking.

He's keeping the aggro off the team. Sure, it can be considered crowd control, but isn't tanking just another form thereof?


So, one must ask... where does it end? The immense power of the Sorceror...


At level 20 a Sorceror will be able to (most likely, if the Devs give them the iconic spell) walk into a room and kill everything in it with a single spell. What's worse they will be able to fire this spell off repetitively. A level 9 spell will only cost 50 sp. How much SP will a level 20 Sorc have? A few thousand? Most likely.


What's going to happen when Sorcs ascend to virtual godhood at level 20?

[Lillitheris]

I foresee a large increase in monster immunities. Deathblock et cetera. Bye-bye FoD and PK.

[Harbinder]

Don't be skeered.

[Locathus]

Someone mentioned immunities above, which I think is likely. As I've posted before in these forums, some of this could also be resolved by mobs pre-buffing and doing it somewhat randomly and intelligently.

For example, having all of the Giants in Gianthold Tor immune to a large number of spells seems kind of lame. But, what if 1 in 4 of them had Deathblock on, another one had FoM, and a couple of them kept up other buffs? Maybe a Fear Immunity spell for PK could be added (or just have them cast GH). To me, it would enhance the difficulty of the missions without feeling cheap. And if done correctly it could preferentially affect some classes more than others (i.e., Deathward isn't going to prevent the barb with the big sword). If used in the right places it could also make some classes more useful in quests where they don't get a lot of invites.

I'm not sure how likely this is, but I don't think it would be ridiculous to code.

.

[Aesop]

Honestly I wish that Mobs would cast Defensive Spells more often and less often were just given immunities... that way we could dispel them and use tactics as opposed to just slamming our heads into them.


Aesop

[wemery73]

Honestly I wish that Mobs would cast Defensive Spells more often and less often were just given immunities... that way we could dispel them and use tactics as opposed to just slamming our heads into them.


Aesop

that would be alot better

[Raithe]

D&D is not balanced for the individual. It is balanced towards the group, and the central character of that group is the magic-user. Even at early levels, the rest of the characters in the party should be molding their tactics around the spells in the caster's arsenal. It's the nature of the game.

The problem with this standard D&D concept in DDO is that Turbine has corrupted the game, making it more about individual achievement and item acquisition than about anything else. Even amongst guild groups, the majority of the game seems to be comparing kill counts and uber items.

The funny thing is, a sorceror hardly needs a single item to be superiorly uber over most other characters, especially nonmagical melee. So the facade of this game is actually a complete hoax.

[moorewr]

Im afraid of americans
Im afraid of the world
Im afraid I cant help it
Im afraid I cant
Johnnys in america

Johnny wants a brain, johnny wants to
Suck on a coke
Johnny wants a woman, johnny wants
To think of a joke
Johnnys in america

Im afraid of americans
Im afraid of the world
Im afraid I cant help it
Im afraid I cant
Johnnys in america


Actually, by 20th level everything will have insane saves, we'll have red-names all over the place... we'll be slaughtering armies of mobs with power word kill while the bosses kill us like sheep...

Cooooool... can't wait. I hope we get extra-planar quest chains.. I can dream...

[hannika]

arcane casters are *supposed* to be sick. especially at high levels, that's when they come into their own. it's how it works.

[Swordalot]

Wierd.
Wail of the Banshee.
Horrid Wilting.
Mass Hold Monster.


That's all I have to say.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

arcane casters are *supposed* to be sick. especially at high levels, that's when they come into their own. it's how it works.

Sounds like 4th Edition is going away from this, giving melee-ers "spells", ala Tome of Battle, instead of multiple attacks, and balance between classes will be better maintained. Although casters will still be awesome, heh.

[Artemis]

at level 20, sorcs and wizards are supposed to be terribly powerful creatures.

someone said it a while ago. in a PnP setting, 3 20th level wizards/sorcs. could probably go up against an army of people and WIN.

even in forgotten realms, etc novels, a high level magic user is feared.

[Shrazkil]

I've been mulling about this... and I have to say... I'm concerned.

What will Sorcerors be like at level 20?

Currently... Sorcerors can kill with a word, charm constantly, raise the dead, heal like mad, and lob damage spells left and right, and can come equipped with more than a few rather useful buffs.

I've seen Sorcs cure blindness, disease, paralysis. I've seen Sorcs raise the dead. I've seen Sorcs wand heal very very well... and in some ways, I've seen Sorcs... well... Tank.

Yeah, Sorcs can... in a backhanded way, tank.

When a Sorceror charms five guys... that's what he's doing. He's tanking.

He's keeping the aggro off the team. Sure, it can be considered crowd control, but isn't tanking just another form thereof?


So, one must ask... where does it end? The immense power of the Sorceror...


At level 20 a Sorceror will be able to (most likely, if the Devs give them the iconic spell) walk into a room and kill everything in it with a single spell. What's worse they will be able to fire this spell off repetitively. A level 9 spell will only cost 50 sp. How much SP will a level 20 Sorc have? A few thousand? Most likely.


What's going to happen when Sorcs ascend to virtual godhood at level 20?

Fear not...just remember...the enemy will be level 25 sorcerers

[valreesio]

at level 20, sorcs and wizards are supposed to be terribly powerful creatures.

someone said it a while ago. in a PnP setting, 3 20th level wizards/sorcs. could probably go up against an army of people and WIN.

even in forgotten realms, etc novels, a high level magic user is feared.

In PnP, if you are lucky enough to have your wizard or sorc live to level 20, you will be able to handle a lot of things on your own. But, they are still weak in many areas. This may not translate to DDO. A thief takes a wizards spell book and he is not so powerful anymore. Run out of material components, your done. One stat draining spell, buh bye. These characters are still balanced because they are inherently weak without their magic. They cannot fight hand to hand with any other class and win without luck (i.e. no magic or buffs).

That being said, here in DDO, we are so magic item soaked that they will be a little unbalanced at 20th level. But, the Dev's will find a way to overcome this.

[Dingo123]

Will Sorcerors become what Clerics are today? Demanded in every party?

[moorewr]

Will Sorcerors become what Clerics are today? Demanded in every party?

If they do it right - the end-game stuff then will require extra-planar travel, so you'll have to have high-level clickies or arcanes along just to get to quest areas (Gate, etc).

Dol Quor here we come.

We wont have miracles or wishes.. Time Stop would be a sort of super-haste/slow... but weird, wail of the banshee, and mass hold monster look pretty darn cool.

PS: I'd like fly to show up as a high level spell and a high-level clickie -- even as a short duration spell. Sure, that doesn't follow PnP, but we can all see it has more impact on this game than it would have on PnP.

[dameron]

If they do it right - the end-game stuff then will require extra-planar travel, so you'll have to have high-level clickies or arcanes along just to get to quest areas (Gate, etc).

"Gate" is also a 9th level Cleric spell.

[jaitee]

arcane casters are *supposed* to be sick. especially at high levels, that's when they come into their own. it's how it works.

correct, instead of giving them immunties, how about they cast it on themselves like we do, after all they dont have any sps, they have unlimited

as my sorc stands now, she can raise dead, restore neg lvls, use the heal scrolls, tank mobs, i am all that is needed to complete a task, not to belittle the rest of the classes, but anyone can do what my sorc can do, if you spec them for that

[Ironik]

Yeah, it'll be insane. I can't wait.

[moorewr]

"Gate" is also a 9th level Cleric spell.

Yes, Ma'am.