I'm afraid of Sorcerors...

[slumbering_dragon]

i belive forthe better of the game they need to nurf SP and got he orriganal way of D&D, u have this many spells per rest and that is it.

[redoubt]

Honestly I wish that Mobs would cast Defensive Spells more often and less often were just given immunities... that way we could dispel them and use tactics as opposed to just slamming our heads into them.


Aesop

Disagree with dingo as usuall, but agree with you.

I examine mobs a lot hoping to see something worth dispeling... alas... they are usually just naturally immune.

[Spookydodger]

Disagree with dingo as usuall, but agree with you.

I examine mobs a lot hoping to see something worth dispeling... alas... they are usually just naturally immune.

They're not naturally immune, they're wearing items that vanish on death

[Spookydodger]

If you are wearing a golden cartouche and giant head, you are sacrificing item slots towards UMD. These item slots are typically for things like extra-spell points, protection, or resistances. You may have these moved to other item spaces, but make no mistake, you are sacrificing something to get those extra points. You have enough to UMD a wand without any worries.

What about your DCs on spells? What's your damage like? These are important things, too. You have average to good spell points, and slightly above average hitpoints. Who can say if anything has been sacrificed.

I'm not saying that it's impossible. I'm not saying that there aren't twinktacular things that can be done.

You got a lot of UMD, I got diplomacy to make mobs forget me. These are all choices we make. What's your concentration skill like? That's another benefit of Wizards: more skill points to sprinkle around. Done right, those "throw away skills" become amazingly useful.

I don't personally think that many casters ever click on that "cower" button.

I have a sorc with 27.5 UMD (Golden Cartouche & GH) and didn't sacrifice anything of value to get there. When I make my roll it is actually 29 as I have the Head of Good Fortune. So it isn't that hard to get 30ish on UMD. It is relatively easy to use Heal and Raise scrolls and quite easy to use a cure serious wand.

Once I get a +2 or +3 chr tome it will be even higher as my stat modifier will be better.

The only real downsides to the sorc are the ability to change many spells quickly and the number of spells per level. The spell focus feats aren't really a big deal with the right gear.

With 174 hp and 1835 sp you shouldn't ever run out of sp in 90 seconds either.

[Mhykke]

i belive forthe better of the game they need to nurf SP and got he orriganal way of D&D, u have this many spells per rest and that is it.

Well, if they drastically revamped they way the did mobs, then maybe.

But if not, then you'd see the game shut down. It would be terrible to implement that if they left mobs the way they are.

[Dingo123]

If you are wearing a golden cartouche and giant head, you are sacrificing item slots towards UMD. These item slots are typically for things like extra-spell points, protection, or resistances. You may have these moved to other item spaces, but make no mistake, you are sacrificing something to get those extra points. You have enough to UMD a wand without any worries.

What about your DCs on spells? What's your damage like? These are important things, too. You have average to good spell points, and slightly above average hitpoints. Who can say if anything has been sacrificed.

I'm not saying that it's impossible. I'm not saying that there aren't twinktacular things that can be done.

You got a lot of UMD, I got diplomacy to make mobs forget me. These are all choices we make. What's your concentration skill like? That's another benefit of Wizards: more skill points to sprinkle around. Done right, those "throw away skills" become amazingly useful.

I don't personally think that many casters ever click on that "cower" button.

My little Sorc has Diplo, UMD, and Concentration. Those are the only skills a Sorc really ever truly needs.

[Krell]

I've been mulling about this... and I have to say... I'm concerned.

What will Sorcerors be like at level 20?

Currently... Sorcerors can kill with a word, charm constantly, raise the dead, heal like mad, and lob damage spells left and right, and can come equipped with more than a few rather useful buffs.

I've seen Sorcs cure blindness, disease, paralysis. I've seen Sorcs raise the dead. I've seen Sorcs wand heal very very well... and in some ways, I've seen Sorcs... well... Tank.

Yeah, Sorcs can... in a backhanded way, tank.

When a Sorceror charms five guys... that's what he's doing. He's tanking.

He's keeping the aggro off the team. Sure, it can be considered crowd control, but isn't tanking just another form thereof?


So, one must ask... where does it end? The immense power of the Sorceror...


At level 20 a Sorceror will be able to (most likely, if the Devs give them the iconic spell) walk into a room and kill everything in it with a single spell. What's worse they will be able to fire this spell off repetitively. A level 9 spell will only cost 50 sp. How much SP will a level 20 Sorc have? A few thousand? Most likely.


What's going to happen when Sorcs ascend to virtual godhood at level 20?

Lets see how well some of those spells work in Mod5 against undead. I love my Sorcerer but there is a reason I also leveled up a Wizard.

As far as level 20, I think some of the creatures we will be fighting by then will also be very powerful. There is always balance. In PnP and even DDO to some extent the caster is very weak at low levels and its the melees doing the killing. At higher levels the balance tilts the other way, at least in PnP. We'll have to wait and see how it works out here .

[Dingo123]

Lets see how well some of those spells work in Mod5 against undead. I love my Sorcerer but there is a reason I also leveled up a Wizard.

As far as level 20, I think some of the creatures we will be fighting by then will also be very powerful. There is always balance. In PnP and even DDO to some extent the caster is very weak at low levels and its the melees doing the killing. At higher levels the balance tilts the other way, at least in PnP. We'll have to wait and see how it works out here .

Spam Disintegrate against undead. At least the ones that need to be made dead.

Ones that can be useful, charm.

[Krell]

That being said. At 20, a wizard/sorc will have a base of 100 HP + any items or con modifier. Squishy yes. If they want to raise that most if not all of their other points at creation need be dumped in CON for what at the end will be a very minimal return.

I don't know, my Warforged Wizard has 242 health (28 Con) and can heal himself full with 35 spell points or 2 scrolls. I've found that extra health to be very useful compared to my squishy Drow Sorcerer with around 140 health.

[Elvish_Ranger]

well if it comes down to it i think my wizzie is the biggies squishy lvl 14 and 76hp hehehe clerics love that it takes one cure serious and im full health lol

[Aspenor]

Spam Disintegrate against undead. At least the ones that need to be made dead.

Ones that can be useful, charm.

Hmmm, this post just made me like this guy

[The_Truth]

A Sorc with Wail of the Banshee will be far more devastating than a Wizard with Weird.

A wizard will still have the chance to pick up both Weird and WOB. A soc, might not even have a 9th level spell slot. Not to mention the "wish" spell. As a wizard progress he will progressively become stronger than a soc.
End Game.

[Kaboth]

A wizard will still have the chance to pick up both Weird and WOB. A soc, might not even have a 9th level spell slot. Not to mention the "wish" spell. As a wizard progress he will progressively become stronger than a soc.
End Game.

Why wouldnt a Sorcerer have his 9th level spells? The only reason is if Turbine for some reason only released a 1 level expansion and the cap was at 17th, but as far as I know they do 2 level expansions... 10, 12, 14, see a pattern? So at 18th level a sorcerer will have their 9th level spell slot. AFAIK, they plan to eventually hit 20th level and beyond which by then at 20th level a Sorcerer should have 3 9th level spells to utilize.

[Bizbag]

Why wouldnt a Sorcerer have his 9th level spells? The only reason is if Turbine for some reason only released a 1 level expansion and the cap was at 17th, but as far as I know they do 2 level expansions... 10, 12, 14, see a pattern? So at 18th level a sorcerer will have their 9th level spell slot. AFAIK, they plan to eventually hit 20th level and beyond which by then at 20th level a Sorcerer should have 3 9th level spells to utilize.

At least in PnP, useful level 9 spells include (but are not limited to) Meteor Swarm, Wish, Mass Hold Monster, Wail of the Banshee, Weird, Power Word: Kill and Time Stop. That makes it hard to pick which ones to take on a sorc.

[jonnyb]

A few thousand? Most likely.

lol more like nearing 10 thousand my lvl 9 have 1082 as it is with a power 4 item and a +3 cha cloak

[KALASHTAR]

I've been mulling about this... and I have to say... I'm concerned.

What will Sorcerors be like at level 20?

Currently... Sorcerors can kill with a word, charm constantly, raise the dead, heal like mad, and lob damage spells left and right, and can come equipped with more than a few rather useful buffs.

I've seen Sorcs cure blindness, disease, paralysis. I've seen Sorcs raise the dead. I've seen Sorcs wand heal very very well... and in some ways, I've seen Sorcs... well... Tank.

Yeah, Sorcs can... in a backhanded way, tank.

When a Sorceror charms five guys... that's what he's doing. He's tanking.

He's keeping the aggro off the team. Sure, it can be considered crowd control, but isn't tanking just another form thereof?


So, one must ask... where does it end? The immense power of the Sorceror...


At level 20 a Sorceror will be able to (most likely, if the Devs give them the iconic spell) walk into a room and kill everything in it with a single spell. What's worse they will be able to fire this spell off repetitively. A level 9 spell will only cost 50 sp. How much SP will a level 20 Sorc have? A few thousand? Most likely.


What's going to happen when Sorcs ascend to virtual godhood at level 20?

really I kind of think that sort of makes up for only having 70 hit points at level 10

[GlassCannon]

Sorry if I scared you. It'll be ok so long as you aren't on the other side of the Deathmatch Arena. I'm on your side, REALLY!! Don't be afraid.

Once we of the Caster denomination reach our godlike status you can simply follow closely behind, patching our wounds, rushing forward to gather our enemies into a huge group(so we can nuke them all at once), or just being yourself in a dungeon for comedic value and to have a good time... we'll solo most of the hard parts so you don't have to. As for puzzles... those break us quite easily and we shy away from them. That's(usually) why we bring others along. Puzzle Food.

Biz, thats easy. Time Stop to go with my Haste. Second choice due to elemental spec would likely be Meteor Swarm. Mass Hold would be the 3rd slot.... what does Wish do again?

[Twerpp]

You are supposed to fear level 20 Sorcs and Wizards too. You can still laugh at Bards though . Ever read a D&D novel? Fireball contests that leave craters in the ground, spells powerful enough to bring down towers and castle walls, obliterate entire units at a time. You should fear a level 20 caster like you would a dragon. That said when the spells run out they've got a robe and a dagger to defend them. Just the way this world works bud.

[ccheath776]

I've been mulling about this... and I have to say... I'm concerned.

What will Sorcerors be like at level 20?

Currently... Sorcerors can kill with a word, charm constantly, raise the dead, heal like mad, and lob damage spells left and right, and can come equipped with more than a few rather useful buffs.

I've seen Sorcs cure blindness, disease, paralysis. I've seen Sorcs raise the dead. I've seen Sorcs wand heal very very well... and in some ways, I've seen Sorcs... well... Tank.

Yeah, Sorcs can... in a backhanded way, tank.

When a Sorceror charms five guys... that's what he's doing. He's tanking.

He's keeping the aggro off the team. Sure, it can be considered crowd control, but isn't tanking just another form thereof?


So, one must ask... where does it end? The immense power of the Sorceror...


At level 20 a Sorceror will be able to (most likely, if the Devs give them the iconic spell) walk into a room and kill everything in it with a single spell. What's worse they will be able to fire this spell off repetitively. A level 9 spell will only cost 50 sp. How much SP will a level 20 Sorc have? A few thousand? Most likely.


What's going to happen when Sorcs ascend to virtual godhood at level 20?

Dont fear sorcerors, fear my sorceror. She can kill you with your own thoughts and make you dance for her while she does it.
The worst thing to do to a dark hearted evil arcanist with the knowledge of a thousand years behind her is to give her more powers.
The day she logged on and had 2000 SP was the day the monsters just cleared out of the quest and gave her completion rewards.
They still have a sign posted over VON 3 that says CC's sorceror not allowed under any circumstances.

[Cambo]

Level 20.
At level 20 a lot of mobs we face and even in P&P will have immunities, hitpoints and counterspells that make the balance for/against Sorcerers...

The Dev's will not let a level 20 Sorc in DDO walk into high level quest and wipe out the whole dungeon with 1/2 a mana bar left.

And even Melee types will walkthrough low-medium level stuff when they are at 20.

300 HP damage "unavoidable/resistable traps are still pretty nasty to a 200 hp sorcerer when no one has a rogue to disable them cause everyone wants a sorcerer...PS How's your Fortitude save for high level desintegration traps...

Hey what about that anitmagic room that we just wen into....can any of Us sorcerers (imagine a group of 6 sorcerers) take out the 2000 HP Boss with Melee...when he does 400hp damage per hit...

Plenty of room for all classes if the Devs choose to dev that way...