Mature Players/Role Players Speak Out about D&DO's Future

[llevenbaxx]

While I dont agree with the dying thing, I do agree something big is missing. Since the merge I regularly group with players who are completely unfamiliar with game. Just a matter of making a bigger percentage of them stick with it.
The merge will be a play a huge part. With a greater number of quests than at launch to keep new players busy, there are now a sufficient number of people to get groups.

I do also think it is the role-playing/just hang out in the world(Stormreach) living their characters life type of players that are most noticably absent. I think they already figured this out though, they are adding many of the side things that will flesh out who a character is. Questing alone is not enough for a very large number of people imo, they need more. I think "the more" is coming, albeit a bit slowly.

[Kalanth]

1. Go to any video game store, or your normal buy video game enterprise and take a look at the shelves. No DDO, no Prepaid cards. You will see LOTRO games and cards, but a big negative on DDO.

I did just what you suggested, and man was I dissapointed! Not only did I find two boxes with several more behind the counter at the store in the mall, but the Best Buy, Circuit City, and Target all still had copies! **** it all, how am I going to live knowing that stores in my area are still selling the game?

[Rason]

I did just what you suggested, and man was I dissapointed! Not only did I find two boxes with several more behind the counter at the store in the mall, but the Best Buy, Circuit City, and Target all still had copies! **** it all, how am I going to live knowing that stores in my area are still selling the game?

Is that LotRO or DDO that they still stock?

I found Marrra's and my copies of DDO at a clearance sale for $30 AUD each which I am glad to say I got my hands on. Turbine and Atari need to bundle up a Module 5 version box to sell out there.

[Anastasios]

I did just what you suggested, and man was I dissapointed! Not only did I find two boxes with several more behind the counter at the store in the mall, but the Best Buy, Circuit City, and Target all still had copies! **** it all, how am I going to live knowing that stores in my area are still selling the game?

Clearance bins, bargain bins, they don't even publish the game anymore. What does that tell you, maybe the publisher has already given up?? I bought the game last month for 10 bucks for a friend to try out, hold on, even better go to Gamestop.com, or bestbuy.com. Tell me what you find.....Proof enough for ya, maybe you just wished those games were there and they just 'magically' appeared, lol.

[Drith]

I love DDO.

My entire guild loves DDO as well.

None of us are going anywhere anytime soon.

Most important of all the direction that Turbine is taking with the game moving forward has all of us very excited for the future of DDO and all of us are very excited in anticipation for MOD 5 and MOD 6.

Keep it up Turbine, you're going down the right path!

[Aesop]

I would like to see advertising! When another game releases new quests and new content they advertise...because you pay to buy the new content. Turbine gives us free content but never tells the people not playing the game that there is something new. Each module should be advertised with the same zeal as an xpack. Example:

In a gaming magazine splash "Dungeon's and Dragons's Online. Module 6 'Gate's of Fernia'. Come bear witness to the dark elven invasion - forces bearing mighty new magic from the Fire Giants! With the purchase of DDO you receive this module with Xxx number of new quests and for the price of monthly admission you continue to get module after module FREE!"

Then when Module 7 comes out they rinse and repeat.


**FYI - we had similar suggestions for AC2 but they let that game die too.

well then... maybe they need to do a Paid Expansion. Get some new money into the works something new to see on the shelves of the Geek Stores. It would have to be Epic though in nature... maybe make it the Prestige Class Release and add the City of Sharn the gate way to the mainland maybe have it include new abilities like flying. Maybe make that expand into Epic Levels.

anyway I think that would give a resurgence to the game.

Aesop

[Kanai]

FYI, proclaiming that your part in a discussion is "well-stated" and "legit" does not necessarily make it so. Self-analysis, brother.

For the love of god...a "conversation" involves more than one person. Go re-read my post, homes. I wasn't talking about MYSELF, I was talking about everyone's posts.

And I am pleased to see all the valid feedback that is continuing to come in. I hope that Turbine takes notice of our constructive comments and takes them to heart in their plans for the future.

Happy gaming, everyone.

[Rason]

And I am pleased to see all the valid feedback that is continuing to come in. I hope that Turbine takes notice of our constructive comments and takes them to heart in their plans for the future.

Happy gaming, everyone.

Thanks all. My only wish is that this thread doesn't get closed or pushed aside because it becomes bitter. Patience explained why PAX was like what it was (I believe it would have been better putting eggs in both baskets but that is me) and I would like to hope we could move onto the more constructive and, now that we've put down on the table about DDO being absent in general, try to fuel more ideas into DDO.

What else would you like to be seen/changed? What part of D&D did you absolutely love that you would have loved seeing in a game of today or perhaps believe that you won't see in a game since it is built more for tabletop pen and paper?

[Kalanth]

Is that LotRO or DDO that they still stock?

Hate to be a putz, but then again, I love being a putz. It was DDO, of course.

[smarta$$]Why would I say something like that about LoTRO when we are talking about DDO?[/smarta$$]

Clearance bins, bargain bins, they don't even publish the game anymore. What does that tell you, maybe the publisher has already given up?? I bought the game last month for 10 bucks for a friend to try out, hold on, even better go to Gamestop.com, or bestbuy.com. Tell me what you find.....Proof enough for ya, maybe you just wished those games were there and they just 'magically' appeared, lol.

Actually, they were brand new and at full price ($49.99) on the shelf. There are more than a few MMO's out there, btw, that still bring in new players but don't put the game on the shelf. Matrix Online is one, as it is bundled up with a special deal SoE has. I am sure some still play EQ 1 (if the servers are still up on it) and when was the last time you saw that for sale?

Atari is not a fan of pluging their old stuff, which is why there were not the best company to work with for an MMO. But, Turbine had little choice because Atari has the gaming rights to D&D computer games.

[Borrigain]

....that even the most well-intentioned thread degenerates after the first couple of posts?

Trolls, shoo....go elsewhere. Go stand on a street corner with a sign or something. We were trying to give ideas on what could help DDO.

As for what I think:

1) Extended chain-quests. Can't start the next until you complete the first. However, once completed, you can go back and repeat any chain-quest. (kinda like Threnal). The one I loved so dearly from PnP was G1-3, followed by D1-3, and cumulating in Q1.

2) Make a new city or village for that matter to travel to with a couple of quests there. BUT.........when you talk to marketplace NPC, he gives you the option to teleport there, OR.......allow you to travel there. This large open landscape is like public area and is a PvP free-fire zone (not sure how to handle contact with other parties for those who want to avoid conflict...maybe a "you come upon another party" dialogue box, "do you engage?" requiring both parties to say yes to initiate PvP). Also here is your collect 50 jackanapes for crafting and several "spawn camping" mini-quests for those who like that kind of thing.

3) Crafting from the collectibles you find in missions and the free-fire zone. Do this in town via paid NPC crafters, or have feat/enhancement for crafting that you can then do yourself in your Guild Hall.

Uh, oh, boss just saw me goofing off. Better get back to work.

Ideas people, remember, the OP is looking for ideas, not DOOOOOOOOOMMMM,
Borr.

[Rason]

[smarta$$]Why would I say something like that about LoTRO when we are talking about DDO?[/smarta$$]

It just sounded like the shop had ample copies both on shelves and behind the counter. Now I reread it, I notice you meant they had ample BEHIND the counter in a nice hiding place.. my bad.. :P

Anyway, on with the thread

Edit:

Ideas people, remember, the OP is looking for ideas, not DOOOOOOOOOMMMM,
Borr.

Here here Oh and the boss comment? I know the feeling, my boss is behind me

[Dane_McArdy]

*Sadness*

Had already seen the varous postings about there being no DDO at PAX - but for the Turbine worker to be ignorant of DDO even existing? Wunnerful.

In regard to claims of "doom posting" ... We study history in the hopes that we can learn what pitfalls to avoid. If the signs of impending failure are repeating themselves, then we should all try to wake somebody up and try to steer clear of the same path that has been taken before.

cdbd3rd, you should know better then to fall for that kind of reasoning.

All they are doing is writing their post to make it seem like the LoTRO staff at PAX had no idea DDO existed. Come on!

It's not facts, it's purple prose.

"The way she looked at me, the guilty expressions, the akward silence when ever I mentioned, nay, pleaded for any information on DDO, even crumb! But all I got was mocking laughs at my devotion to a game that died before it even began..."

Whatever.

[Kalanth]

It just sounded like the shop had ample copies both on shelves and behind the counter. Now I reread it, I notice you meant they had ample BEHIND the counter in a nice hiding place.. my bad.. :P

Actually, you got it right the first time. They had plenty on the shelfs and behind the counter. But, as you said, back to the originally scheduled thread.

[Twerpp]

Great post!

I'm not asking for a complete overhaul of the games mechanic, if that is something they are considering they should just do DDO2 and this time in Forgotten Realms please or Planescape, set this game in the city of doors and you literally can make all the people happy all the time, any quest, race, sub-race, class, etc becomes possible.

Adding classes and prestige classes..well the potential is there. They are called core classes for a reason...prestige classes are often just enhancements/additions/modification to a core class. For example a War Hulk, similar to fighter, stop giving the character BAB, give STR bonuses instead. That's oversimplifying I know, but if Turbine took what was already there and modified it, like re-skin PK tendrils brown and green and making them hold stuff, voila! Now you have entangle! Would that please people? It would work for me. I'm not a programmer, is that possible? Is it as easy as it sounds? Would it be that hard to implement the damage bonuses and critical multipliers of a weapon master? Or Dwarven Defender? And more importantly would it attract more players and create new interest for those of us already invested in the game? It would for me.

Throw in some sub races, take dwarves for example:
Would it be hard to give us Gold Dwarves, Duergar, Shield Dwarves (or their Eberron equivalent)? With different respective bonuses to stats, and slightly different enhancements? Maybe in creation lock out different skin tones for whatever sub-race applies. Can do the same for Moon/Wood elf they already have Drow. Half-Orcs? Well Orcs are already here, but I can see how that would be more difficult than sub-races. And then you start talking about shifters/druid shifting well then I can really see things taking a long time...is there a shifting animation? Where does their stuff go when they are a bear/badger/or dire giraffe or since this is Eberron maybe a dire clawfoot or something nuts.

Would cleric domains be that hard? A certain bonus here or there or the ability to cast whatever arcane spell...you could even throw the properties on a bound item if that makes it easier.

Anyway my point is maybe there are a lot of things that can be done on a faster timeline than "when are half-orcs coming? Mod whatever due whenevers we get around to it in the near future!" Things that would probably not only sate us for a while but maybe even attract more players...and with as little work as changing some stats around, apllying different weapon bonuses and skill checks, and misc bonuses and penalties to respective race/class/domain etc.

Would you guys rather see this stuff in weekly dev activities, or minor mechanic issues like

*Minotaurs may occasionally use thrown weapons if charging headlong at an opponent doesn’t seem to be working.

*Now if you are a divine caster and are using wands or scrolls of divine types and you happen to be under the effect of Quell’s Intercession, you will have to perform a UMD check just like every non divine caster type.

Who cares?

Imagine this instead

*Upon reaching 400 favor on any Dwarf/elf character, you will unlock and be able to create different sub-races of dwarves/elves respectively.
*In the character creation menu after selecting a dwarf/elven race and class you will be prompted for an optional sub-race. Your character will recieve the stat bonuses and penalties respective to its race (IE +2 CON -4 CHA for Duergar), and only be able to select avatar features such as skin tones common to that sub-race ie dark grays and blacks for Duergar.

ENHANCEMENTS
*Duergar will have the following enhancements

Stability 1
Cost 1 AP
+1 to save vs DC of trips,stun, etc

Stablity 2
etc etc Ive gone on with this for too long...but these are my suggestions y'all!

[salmag]

I have been with DDO since Beta. I would like to see the game marketed better. This will get people up to date on what this game is all about.

As for changes that I think this game needs:

1. New cities. Explore Xendrik and Korvhaire some more. Possibly open areas. In Asherons Call, one thing I enjoyed was coming upon someone and hearing their cry for help; going over to help them out, possibly making a new friend.

2. More races, and classes. D&D worlds are the most diverse in RPing. This should include psionics. Kalashtar, Shifters, Gnomes, Half-elves, Half-orcs, Changelings, etc... Druids, Monks, etc... Add prestige classes after core races and classes have been brought in.

3. Guild homes, and class specific meeting halls. A place where guildies can gather, and where rogues, rangers, etc... can meet and possibly buy class specific items, do class specific quests, etc...

4. Crafting. The ability to dye armor, possibly improve armor and equipment, dependant on skills.

5. Quest chains. Random quests. Random dungeons. All great ideas, that I agree with.

I think that all this should probably be done with an expansion, and not through updates. D&D 4.0 is going to be released and this game should possibly have an update to bring it in line with those products.

As for Role Playing, I am all for opening a RP server. Overall, this product is a good one, but it can definitely be improved, if Turbine, Atari, and WotC care enough about the franchise. I enjoy DDO; I hope they do care enough about it. I don't play LOTRO, WOW, or EQ, because D&D is what I cut my I-teeth on.

Just my 2 cp.

[Rason]

As an addition to the guild housing, how about player housing? The way I read LotRO, their player housing will be instanced, therefore minimising the amount of houses scene. Perhaps you go into the 'neighbourhood' and it has various instances to accomodate houses.

Maybe it could be like Guild Wars and their solution which is you never see the house, you just 'teleport' there as such.

Would it be worthwhile even when there would be guild housing?

[Attomic]

FYI, I found his viewpoints totally legit. And I also see that he has more than enough experience with the game to offer some insight into this discussion. He's been here since the game launched. That gives him lots of understanding of the workings of the game with which to offer input.

Headstart here, man; don't let the "join date" fool you. The point I was making is that when a person starts talking about his own legitimacy is usually the point at which the listener should really start not accepting that legitimacy at face value. And just agreeing with an opinion does not make it any more or less legitimate.

Understand this: the expectations of the individual can and do always shade their perceptions. Understanding the difference between one's preferences and the realities of a situation is key to having a fully cognizant AND metacognizant perspective on one's own situation. Is Stormreach dying? No. It's just not living up to some people's opinion of what should be happening with it... and that's neither the game's fault nor those people's fault, but recognizing that cognitive gap helps everyone. Should Turbine be advertising DDO? I genuinely hate to do this, but let me answer that with a question: how much good will advertising actually DO? (I am VERY skeptical of the ROI from advertising.) Should they be flooding shelves with boxes? It doesn't make business sense to do so when the online download gets the job done - and the pseudo-advertising of having a physical box there is counteracted by the often-recounted story of biased, uninformed store workers steering people away from the game.

Most importantly, it really hasn't been that long since Gianthold/Stormreaver came out - patience would dictate that we wait and see exactly what this mod's going to do. I'm choosing to take the quasi-optimistic route of hoping they're taking so long because they're working their tails off to make it better, to make it worth the wait (which is what a lot of people said about GH).

As for the RP part... RPers have had their work cut out for them from the beginning, with the lack of an active DM. I can think of a number of different ways of handling in-group RP with both a static development situation and game growth, but that's a personal take on it. An RP server... I honestly have no idea what that would entail logistically and whether it would be financially feasible on Turbine's part. I guess that's my way of saying I don't have an opinion that matters on this one.

[Mattax]

Headstart here, man; don't let the "join date" fool you. The point I was making is that when a person starts talking about his own legitimacy is usually the point at which the listener should really start not accepting that legitimacy at face value. And just agreeing with an opinion does not make it any more or less legitimate.

Understand this: the expectations of the individual can and do always shade their perceptions. Understanding the difference between one's preferences and the realities of a situation is key to having a fully cognizant AND metacognizant perspective on one's own situation. Is Stormreach dying? No. It's just not living up to some people's opinion of what should be happening with it... and that's neither the game's fault nor those people's fault, but recognizing that cognitive gap helps everyone. Should Turbine be advertising DDO? I genuinely hate to do this, but let me answer that with a question: how much good will advertising actually DO? (I am VERY skeptical of the ROI from advertising.) Should they be flooding shelves with boxes? It doesn't make business sense to do so when the online download gets the job done - and the pseudo-advertising of having a physical box there is counteracted by the often-recounted story of biased, uninformed store workers steering people away from the game.

Most importantly, it really hasn't been that long since Gianthold/Stormreaver came out - patience would dictate that we wait and see exactly what this mod's going to do. I'm choosing to take the quasi-optimistic route of hoping they're taking so long because they're working their tails off to make it better, to make it worth the wait (which is what a lot of people said about GH).

As for the RP part... RPers have had their work cut out for them from the beginning, with the lack of an active DM. I can think of a number of different ways of handling in-group RP with both a static development situation and game growth, but that's a personal take on it. An RP server... I honestly have no idea what that would entail logistically and whether it would be financially feasible on Turbine's part. I guess that's my way of saying I don't have an opinion that matters on this one.

No Active DM doesn't matter. I played MxO, I currently play EVE Online. Both of those games are RICH with RP and USE it to keep the game experiance and immersion on a higher level. Granted MxO had crappy game mechanics (even after CR 2.0) and that is why I don't play it anymore. Plus PvP meant nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Now EVE Online, well you got something going there. I love that game. The story is deep and rich and your action MATTER in the game. You go blow up someones ship in PvP and that STINGS BAD! They are out hours or even weeks of game-play. Now I realize that EVE is hardcore and not for everyone, but EVERYONE agrees they like when thier actions make a differance in the game world.

RP tries to do this. In DDO how do you do that? Well you can't. At least not with the gameplay mechanics given to us. But with RP, we create storylines that integrate with what is given to us in game and we try to use it to immerse ourselves into the game more. In DDO it takes more work. This turns off many people who have RPed or would like to RP.

You don't NEED a human DM to RP in this game. There are other games out there that don't have one and have much better RP then this game.

When I started The Lightstorm's Dragonslayers we were a "Heavy RP guild" I would get a BUNCH of people to join with a lot of hopes of some HEAVY RP. After a few days or weeks they realized that heavy RP can't really exist in this game without having to work really hard at it. So they quit our guild and became powergamers or they quit DDO totally.

I had to change our guild type to just plain RP guild to attract anyone and also let people know we do other types of gameplay when we don't feel like working so hard at trying to immerse ourselves in RP.

We try to RP as much as possible. But we (and any others) are only going to do it if its fun. And lately its harder and harder to do that.

We have been more creative lately in how to incorporate RP into DDO and I think we may be coming to a turn around for that. Time will tell.

It sure would be great to get Turbine to help us out and throw us a bone...

[Anastasios]

No Active DM doesn't matter. I played MxO, I currently play EVE Online. Both of those games are RICH with RP and USE it to keep the game experiance and immersion on a higher level. Granted MxO had crappy game mechanics (even after CR 2.0) and that is why I don't play it anymore. Plus PvP meant nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Now EVE Online, well you got something going there. I love that game. The story is deep and rich and your action MATTER in the game. You go blow up someones ship in PvP and that STINGS BAD! They are out hours or even weeks of game-play. Now I realize that EVE is hardcore and not for everyone, but EVERYONE agrees they like when thier actions make a differance in the game world.

Agree wholeheartedly with you onEVE, I need to get back there and play some more and I am not a RP'r, but that game does a good job of intermingling the two IMO. Good call.

[oogly54]

There have been a lot of great ideas here, keep up the good work. My two cents:

DnD is so great (IMO) because of the ability to make any character type you want. The most important addition to this game is races and classes. Bring them in in hordes and people will come back to this game. I admit I hate running many of the lower level quest because I have ran them so many times, but I would run all of them again in a heart beat if it meant I could make a Dungeon Delver Deep Gnome. I would run them again if I could make any unique new character type.

We keep getting "monthly" updates, I would suggest adding content every other, and adding races/classes every other. Some of the big improvments of the game would come in a pay for expansion.

Most of the people who are left in this game are hardcore DnD guys & gals who love this game. I would pay for a 50$ expansion a couple times a year and still pay the 15$ a month. Right now our census is at ~30k subscriptions, charge us 50$ for a really good expansion and you make a quick 1.5 million and lure back easily another 30k subscriptions. Repeat in 6 months and lure more to the game, rinseand repeat. In January our subscription rate was at ~90k, half of the 60k that left since didn't leave because they disliked the game, they disliked the lack of content and lack of variety in the game. An expansion would bring many, many of them back. The advertisment and re-release at the stores would also bring in many new players. This game has so much more to offer new players than when we started, I can't see new players getting bored nearly as quickly as we did. They do not have to wait for level increases and fresh content. It is here.

ATARI, TURBINE, WOTC
IF YOU CONTINUE TO TREAT THIS MANY PEOPLE POORLY, YOU WILL NOT ONLY LOSE THEM IN THIS GAME, BUT WE WILL HAVE NO FAITH IN YOU FOR FUTURE GAMES! MARKET AND ADVERTISE PROPERLY AND AT LEAST TRY OR LOSE MANY PEOPLE FOR LIFE!!! NO PRESENSE IN A GAMING CONVENTION IS RIDICULOUS, NO PRESENSE IN GAMING STORES IS CRIMINAL!