Please make DR matter

[paintedman]

It seems to me that DR/bubble gum works well in the beginning but towards the end of current mid level (eight or so) that mobs of any difficulty start realizing that you are indeed wearing bubble gum for dr and just plain hit harder.

I know that keeping it as low as it is keeps dr from becoming over-powerful, but it seems to me that right now the whole idea of taking feats and enhancements are more than a bit shy from a useful aspect of our characters.

Can we tweak this ability a bit?

How about making the feats themselves add +2 to dr? Currently the mobs are a little super charged so lets super charge some feats already no?

-paintedman

[In_Like_Flynn]

It seems to me that DR/bubble gum works well in the beginning but towards the end of current mid level (eight or so) that mobs of any difficulty start realizing that you are indeed wearing bubble gum for dr and just plain hit harder.

I know that keeping it as low as it is keeps dr from becoming over-powerful, but it seems to me that right now the whole idea of taking feats and enhancements are more than a bit shy from a useful aspect of our characters.

Can we tweak this ability a bit?

How about making the feats themselves add +2 to dr? Currently the mobs are a little super charged so lets super charge some feats already no?

-paintedman

DR is useless. Just ask Barbarians.

[Citymorg]

I'd like to see the static DR enhancement go up to 12/-, the action boost go up to 20 or 30 and the Titan Docent get either: More charges or last longer (min. 2 minutes)

[Kalanth]

The DR/- is right on par with PnP and can be enhanced beyond those numbers with the enhancements. It is not intended to resist massive amounts of damage in any way. Really, it's a little bonus for the low level, and an after thought for the high level. I am happy with that, and would not want to see it change (though it may in PnP with 4th edition comming out).

[paintedman]

If indeed DDO had kept in line with PnP, which I think anyone playing at high levels knows that is simply not the case. I think if DDO is going to change the amount of damage creatures are going to dish out then abilities such as DR should scale appropriately. I can tell you don't use DR, which is fine, but I do.

How about telling me how this will affect you so I can see your point rather than telling me that this particular ability is in line with PnP?

-paintedman

[Dingo123]

If indeed DDO had kept in line with PnP, which I think anyone playing at high levels knows that is simply not the case. I think if DDO is going to change the amount of damage creatures are going to dish out then abilities such as DR should scale appropriately. I can tell you don't use DR, which is fine, but I do.

How about telling me how this will affect you so I can see your point rather than telling me that this particular ability is in line with PnP?

-paintedman

The problem with DR is that if you make it too useful it suddenly becomes overmasteringly powerful.

Let's say we made it so the barbarian had a DR of 10. That DR effectively translates to extra Hitpoints on the barbarian that already has a whole lot of them.

Compare this to the already struggling to tank Fighter (because AC has been rendered useless at higher levels).

So now the main defensive strength has been not only negated (AC), but the primary competition for tankdom has given a massive leg up in that pursuit.

A canny Barbarian would start making a point to wear "Ice Guard" or Lightning Guard" items in the HOPES of getting hit as it would increase his tanking viability while potentially doing reasonable damage to every foe he came in contact with.

[Kalanth]

Actually, I only play Warforged, and only one of those forged does not have the DR enhancments (one is admantine body + the enhancements). And the proper way to put it is, "Kalanth uses DR knowing that it is as usefull as AC at high levels." I mean, you are not wrong in that the numbers are over inflated in the high end. I believe the main problem is the number of successful critical hits by the enemy compared to the dmg resisted. I don't think shooting for 20 - 30 DR would be reasonable. Seems a touch unstabling to me, just my opinion, of course. If they boosted it, or opened up the enhancments a touch to increase the amount potential, I would say they cap it at 15 / - (which is the max a monster can have under the current rule set). Certainly won't drastically reduce what you take, but it can save a life once in a while. And don't forget, the elemental dmgs bypass the DR because they are spell effects (though I am sure you are well aware of that).

[Dingo123]

Actually, I only play Warforged, and only one of those forged does not have the DR enhancments (one is admantine body + the enhancements). I mean, you are not wrong in that the numbers are over inflated in the high end. I believe the main problem is the number of successful critical hits by the enemy compared to the dmg resisted. I don't think shooting for 20 - 30 DR would be reasonable. Seems a touch unstabling to me, just my opinion, of course. If they boosted it, or opened up the enhancments a touch to increase the amount potential, I would say they cap it at 15 / - (which is the max a monster can have under the current rule set). Certainly won't drastically reduce what you take, but it can save a life once in a while. And don't forget, the elemental dmgs bypass the DR because they are spell effects (though I am sure you are well aware of that).

Let's say we gave a barbarin at level 14 15 DR.

In the span of ten hits it means he has 150 more hitpoints than the fighter sitting next to him.

In the span of 20 that's 300, and so forth.

DR can make a dramatic impact.

Try this, go make a Warforged Fighter, put him in adamantine, give him an adamantine shield. For all of your "natural" feat increases get improved damage reduction. Take all the damage reduction enhancements. I think you'll end up with, around level 14 with about 10 damage reduction. It'll make a BIG difference.

[Dingo123]

I will do all but the shield, because they don't stack, but otherwise.

I know it makes a difference, and 5 more points would effective increase the difference to possibly bring things in line with the heightened melee potential from the enemy. But I am not really the one advocating a change, as I would rather see it remain as it is. As I said in my previous post, the DR (my highest being 7) feels about as effective as the 52 AC I can muster on my cleric in high end content. It's a nice number, but the enemy still beats on my like a $2 hooker who is stealing from her pimp.

You know, I always thought armor/shield adamantine DR stacked.

[Kalanth]

Let's say we gave a barbarin at level 14 15 DR.

In the span of ten hits it means he has 150 more hitpoints than the fighter sitting next to him.

In the span of 20 that's 300, and so forth.

DR can make a dramatic impact.

Try this, go make a Warforged Fighter, put him in adamantine, give him an adamantine shield. For all of your "natural" feat increases get improved damage reduction. Take all the damage reduction enhancements. I think you'll end up with, around level 14 with about 10 damage reduction. It'll make a BIG difference.

I will do all but the shield, because they don't stack, but otherwise.

I know it makes a difference, and 5 more points would effective increase the difference to possibly bring things in line with the heightened melee potential from the enemy. But I am not really the one advocating a change, as I would rather see it remain as it is. As I said in my previous post, the DR (my highest being 7) feels about as effective as the 52 AC I can muster on my cleric in high end content. It's a nice number, but the enemy still beats on my like a $2 hooker who is stealing from her pimp.

[paintedman]

In the example of the fighter and ballarina, yes, your calculations are pretty close to on par, but you are ignoring the fact that while the barb may be smiling about the ten hits, the fighter is grinning under helmet about only getting hit at all five times. Given the amount of damage that mobs put out these days, I think that it is a fair trade off to have high dr vs not getting hit as often at all.

However, the calculation about max dr is nine I believe.

-paintedman

[Kalanth]

You know, I always thought armor/shield adamantine DR stacked.

Nah, take a look next time you get a chance. You should see two DR/- lines. At least, thats how it showed last time I looked. It's the reason my cleric carries a Wooden Tower Shield instead of an Adamantine one.

[Dingo123]

In the example of the fighter and ballarina, yes, your calculations are pretty close to on par, but you are ignoring the fact that while the barb may be smiling about the ten hits, the fighter is grinning under helmet about only getting hit at all five times. Given the amount of damage that mobs put out these days, I think that it is a fair trade off to have high dr vs not getting hit as often at all.

However, the calculation about max dr is nine I believe.

-paintedman

At higher levels AC, apparently, becomes meaningless.

[JosephKell]

At least, thats how it showed last time I looked. It's the reason my cleric carries a Wooden Tower Shield instead of an Adamantine one.

So the rust monsters don't eat it?

[Kalanth]

So the rust monsters don't eat it?

No, thats just a concern overall cause the cleric is a Warforged...

[JosephKell]

No, thats just a concern overall cause the cleric is a Warforged...

I understand now... So the Tower Shield is a tray to serve the Warforged on.

All the problems of DDO are the result of power creep and poorly thought out designs for 3rd edition (which stemmed from previous editions). Mainly that Attack Bonus is a dynamic scaling value derived from level, weapon, attribute, and feats. But Armor Class is completely static based off attribute, feats, and equipment.

So to make characters feel dynamic, the developers gave us excessive access to magic items. Plus... come on, if we were using +1 weapons and armors at level 4, people would quit DDO. Getting new magic items is half the fun.

[Harbinder]

At higher levels AC, apparently, becomes meaningless.

Myth.

[Dingo123]

Myth.

Well it's a myth a whole lot of people believe in.

[paintedman]

Dingo, you just trying to stir the pot?

"Well it's a myth a whole lot of people believe in."

LOL, at any rate, I'll bite, I believe ac counts, 10 ac vs 60 ac, doubt a difference?

-paintedman

[Dingo123]

Dingo, you just trying to stir the pot?

"Well it's a myth a whole lot of people believe in."

LOL, at any rate, I'll bite, I believe ac counts, 10 ac vs 60 ac, doubt a difference?

-paintedman

When the BAB of the guys attacking you is 62...

not really.