Devs: Why don't Bludgeoning Feats work on Shields?

[rimble]

Here are some PnP rules to work with:

Shield Bash Attacks

You can bash an opponent with a light shield or heavy shield, using it as an off-hand weapon. See Table: Weapons for the damage dealt by a shield bash. Used this way, a shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon. For the purpose of penalties on attack rolls, treat a heavy shield as a one-handed weapon and a light shield as a light weapon. If you use your shield as a weapon, you lose its AC bonus until your next action (usually until the next round). An enhancement bonus on a shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but the shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.

Shield Spikes

When added to your shield, these spikes turn it into a martial piercing weapon that increases the damage dealt by a shield bash as if the shield were designed for a creature one size category larger than you. You can’t put spikes on a buckler or a tower shield. Otherwise, attacking with a spiked shield is like making a shield bash attack.

An enhancement bonus on a spiked shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but a spiked shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.




Light Shield does 1d3 Bludgeoning. Light Spiked Shield does 1d4 Piercing.

Heavy Shield does 1d4 Bludgeoning. Heavy Spiked Shield does 1d6 Piercing.

[Shade]

I often think about making a more soloist type build., less specialized and less group-centric. As much as the idea intrigues me I don't know if i'll ever do it..

I just always come to remember this is a fast paced MMO making that idea die a little for me.

[Turial]

Agree. Blunt feats should work with shields, either that or there should be feats that focus on shield bashing.

[teddok]

I think it would be funny and cool to duel wield Shields.
Can you imagine a tank designed to do that.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I made a toon to try to max out shiled bashing.....hopeing bludgeon weapon feats would work......well....they didn't, and he is a mostly gimpled toon scheduled for deletion someday. However, I did learn a few things about shield bashing from him and actually made another toon that I plan to keep around awhile.

The plus on shields does not add to attacks or damage.
You do get your full base attack bonus plus full str bonus to hit. (therefore I would think the the speed scales as you get higher lvl)
You only get half of your str bonus to damage.....so almost no matter what, shield bashing deals little damage.
Shields of bashing do an extra d6 of damage that seems to be an undefined type.......so it does red damage to many things that some weapond would not.....I haven't had the opertunity to experiment with ghost touch shields much.....but other than not missing 50% of the time they shouldn't do anything great.
There is one shield in the game that I have seen that has some potential, but I am too low lvl to use it with my shield bashing toon.
The Ward of Undeath from OOB is a ghost touch flaming undead bane shield.
It does get the undead bane bosus to hit and damage (to hit is difficult to prove) and does flaming damage as well.......really wish this had a bashing effect,......then it would be real useful.
There is one more great thing I learned about shield bashing......which I think I will mostly keep to myself......but my new improved Shieldknight has combat Expertise as a feat.

I must say, it was a lot of fun doing Kobolds New Ringleader on elite....whenI ran past the Kobold Chieften and blosked the door where the Ogre spawns........niether the Ogre of the kobolds got out and I did not get hit once.....shield bashing the entire time....
I didn't do much damage or get many kills.....but we didn't take much damage as a party either.

[Laith]

Shields of bashing do an extra d6 of damage that seems to be an undefined type.......so it does red damage to many things that some weapond would not

it's force damage, so yes: works on just about everything.

but other than not missing 50% of the time they shouldn't do anything great.

ghosttouch is a weapon effect in DDO, not a defensive one as well (which it is in PnP).
shield material doesn't matter in reguards to DR either. ie, an adamantine shield IS NOT an adamantine weapon as far as DR is concerned.

hopeing bludgeon weapon feats would work......well....they didn't, and he is a mostly gimpled toon

Bludgeoning weapons are only slightly less effective than slashing or piercing. Like light repeating crossbows: they may be less effective, but for that very reason, fewer people use them and good ones are easier to get your hands on.

There is one more great thing I learned about shield bashing......which I think I will mostly keep to myself......but my new improved Shieldknight has combat Expertise as a feat.

if you want shield bashing to change at all, you're gonna have to cop to the possible bugs that benefit the player. ie, expertise not affecting your attack to-hit for a shield (doesn't it feel better to let it into the open? )

[Mad_Bombardier]

The plus on shields does not add to attacks or damage.

This is directly from PnP. We just don't have any shields as magic weapons.

An enhancement bonus on a shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but the shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.

The Ward of Undeath from OOB is a ghost touch flaming undead bane shield.
It does get the undead bane bonus to hit and damage (to hit is difficult to prove) and does flaming damage as well.......really wish this had a bashing effect,......then it would be real useful.

Yes, it does get the +2 Bane bonus to hit and damage. (not that hard to prove. Go into Goodblades Daggers quest and bash a skellie with any shield, then use Ward of Undead. You will see a +2 to-hit and damage difference. )

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Forgot about the Adamantine thing.
And I was hoping the other thing wasn't actually a bug.....shield bashing is by definition defensive fighting.
(No! it does not feel better I guess I won't get to keep this guy around as long as I thought.......darn, was really hoping to get to 8th and try out that Ward of Undeath).

[GeneralDiomedes]

Agree. Blunt feats should work with shields, either that or there should be feats that focus on shield bashing.

Latter is correct IMO - Weapon Focus: Shields, Improved Critical: Sheilds, Weapon Specialization: Shields. I don't see any similiarity between a hammer and a sheild in terms of proficiencies.

[Laith]

I don't see any similiarity between a hammer and a sheild in terms of proficiencies.

a shortsword and heavy pick operate completely differently as well.

Mechanically, the only martial bludgeoning weapon that is up to the quality of similar slashing/piercing martials is the Warhammer. The maul, great club, and light hammer are statistically inferior to similar weapons if you compare base damage and crits.

Not many people focus on bludgeoning weapons because choosing them is effectively the equivalent of focusing in simple weapons (with the exception of the warhammer). Adding shields to bludgeoning, IMO, wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

Of course, i'd completely support a seperate line of shield feats. anything would be great.

[youbei]

i want a shield that stuns everyone who hits me kk?

[Mad_Bombardier]

i want a shield that stuns everyone who hits me kk?

Something like a Resonant Shield- attackers must save or be stunned (non-crit stun like Paralyzing/Symbol of Stunning). Works for me!

[xberto]

Like I said, SBing sucks. I'll drop the feat real soon as it has incredibly poor DPS.

I don't think SB'ing should considered for any DPS build. It's just an alternative attack for a melee player standing in a blocking position. It's has a simple animation and I don't think it should get any to-hit bonus' as you would in a normal weapon chain. It IS however, an attack, a bludgeoning attack at that, and bludgeoning enhancements should apply.

[xberto]

Would be nice to get an answer from Devs since it lists bludgeon on your inventory sheet next to the bludgeon damage the shield does. This could be a bug and it would be nice to have it acknowledged.

[smodge13]

this has been annoying me for a while, i've been wanting to make a shield bash specialist for ages.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Back on this topic, why not add +1 to-hit to Shield Mastery and +2 dmg ImpShield Mastery feats. If you are really going to be shield spec-ed, you'll have these feats anyway. It's a deviation from PnP, but adds utility to two very limited feats.