Challenge: Bladesworn Transformation

[Kalanth]

I am looking at this idea and seriously considering it. But I am thinking that I will do a Paladin 3 / Cleric 11 for the saves and fear immunity. I am just not sure what to do with the base abilities just yet.

[oberon131313]

well, I'm up to level 3, almost level 4 with this build, and I'm outkilling most fighters, and the only thing I'm lacking is extend...
and I'm having a ton of fun

[Kalanth]

This is what I put down on "paper" in the Cleric forum. I have yet to put the build together in game, though. I have a lack of good Great Swords.

I am not quite accustomed to building melee based characters, so some of this was flailing about while I built the character. The idea is a relatively capable melee character that can utilize the Bladesworn Enhancement while maintaining respectable healing abilities in the character. Having built a Warforged cleric before and played him to 14, I had an idea on how to make the cleric itself effective. I added the Paladin levels for the saving throws and the fighter was for the bonus feat of Weapon Focus.

With the Enhancement and the Feat, Power attack is effectively a -3 on your rolls vs. -5, and with a +5 weapon can be in effect a +2 overall. A penalty, sure, but you still do more damage. No need for shields here, so my standard use of Tower Shield Proficiency with a cleric also goes to the wayside since the Lord of the Blades enhancement is greatsword focused.

The +2 tome assumes that you got 1750, and the +1 assumes that you are willing to spend money on the character. With +6 items for Str, Wis, and Cha you can reach 24, 26, and 20 respectively. Place a +3 tome from reaver raid into Wisdom instead of the +2 and you can reach 28 with a +5 item. And no, I don't reasonably expect you to have a reaver raid +3 tome drop. Just happened to happen for my cleric once.

In effect, I would not say this character is a main liner, but should be able to add some decent supplimental damage to the battle and can still cast heal and raise the dead.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 14 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(1 Fighter \ 2 Paladin \ 11 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 166
Spell Points: 720 
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 7
Will: 15

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 14)
Strength             16                    18
Dexterity            12                    12
Constitution         12                    14
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               14                    20
Charisma             12                    14

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 14
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 14)
Balance               1                    -4
Bluff                 1                     2
Concentration         1                     15
Diplomacy             1                     2
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                     2
Heal                  6                    6
Hide                  1                    -4
Intimidate            1                     2
Jump                  3                     0
Listen                2                     5
Move Silently         1                    -4
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  2                     5
Swim                  3                    -6
Tumble                n/a                  n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Adamantine Body

Level 2 (Paladin)

Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell

Level 4 (Cleric)

Level 5 (Cleric)

Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 8 (Cleric)

Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave

Level 10 (Cleric)

Level 11 (Cleric)

Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 13 (Cleric)

Level 14 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Bladesworn Transformation
Enhancement: Follower of the Lord of Blades
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand Mastery III
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend II
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend III

[Maldini]

To be honest, I would drop Dex down and boost up your Con. That way you'll have more HP in the end game, which is important.

[Maldini]

well, I'm up to level 3, almost level 4 with this build, and I'm outkilling most fighters, and the only thing I'm lacking is extend...
and I'm having a ton of fun

You must not be playing with a lot of barbarians :P

[Kalanth]

To be honest, I would drop Dex down and boost up your Con. That way you'll have more HP in the end game, which is important.

Yeah, could easily break 200 if I did that. I don't know if I want to though. 12 Dex means I free a spot that would normally be taken by some junk Dex item in order to boost the AC to max, which is why I did that. That and I don't plan to front line it. However, I do see your point and I will be going over this with a comb tomorrow as I reevaluate the build as a whole.

[nbhs275]

This is what I put down on "paper" in the Cleric forum. I have yet to put the build together in game, though. I have a lack of good Great Swords.

There is no benifit to that build. Building a strength build with moderate//high cha and wisdom on a race that takes a hit too both. Then not maxing str, and putting only two points into con.

Bring con to 14, drop the paladin levels, drop the cha, bring the str to 18.
Should be cleric//fighter 13/1.

str 18 will reach 40 with the right stuff
dex 10 can hit 16, enough to fill out addy with a daggertooth belt
con 16 24-26 easily
int 8 who cares?
wis 13 24 with +2 tome and +6 item
cha 8 yet again, who cares?



Much better DPS, More SP, More HP, More spells, and all your losing is fear immunity (with a will save 20+ not much of a worry) and 1 ac. Your save will still be high. Though reflex might not break 20.( 4 base+3 dex+5 item+4 GH+1 haste= 17)

[Maldini]

Yeah, could easily break 200 if I did that. I don't know if I want to though. 12 Dex means I free a spot that would normally be taken by some junk Dex item in order to boost the AC to max, which is why I did that. That and I don't plan to front line it. However, I do see your point and I will be going over this with a comb tomorrow as I reevaluate the build as a whole.

Well I mean in reality what do you need the Dex for? Worried about reflex saves? 1 or 2 won't make a huge difference. Worried about AC? You're probably not going to have enough to really make a difference. You should, on the other hand, have an arcane cast Displacement on you, especially if you're going two-handed.

[Kalanth]

Well I mean in reality what do you need the Dex for? Worried about reflex saves? 1 or 2 won't make a huge difference. Worried about AC? You're probably not going to have enough to really make a difference. You should, on the other hand, have an arcane cast Displacement on you, especially if you're going two-handed.

I see your point, Maldini. I am still on the fence about it, though. I just like knowing that its there if I need it. I have not had the chance to revise it, but I will do so tonight. I am looking at replacing the one fighter level with a 3rd paladin level and then dropping the dex.

And nbhs275, there is always a benefit to a higher saving throw. I played a Warforged cleric that was both high Wis and High Cha by end game. I saw that turning was still working (they don't pop after 10, but if you can make em run that is just as good). And I would like to still try and benefit from that in this build. The one thing I wont be changing is the Cha, especially with the +5 Sacred Docent I have from my (deleted) lvl 14 warforged cleric.

[nbhs275]

I see your point, Maldini. I am still on the fence about it, though. I just like knowing that its there if I need it. I have not had the chance to revise it, but I will do so tonight. I am looking at replacing the one fighter level with a 3rd paladin level and then dropping the dex.

And nbhs275, there is always a benefit to a higher saving throw. I played a Warforged cleric that was both high Wis and High Cha by end game. I saw that turning was still working (they don't pop after 10, but if you can make em run that is just as good). And I would like to still try and benefit from that in this build. The one thing I wont be changing is the Cha, especially with the +5 Sacred Docent I have from my (deleted) lvl 14 warforged cleric.

Your going to regret it at cap. Your gunna miss out on lvl 7th spells, lots of sp, and are going to be heavily gimped in melee(If your using a shield your not doing much damage at all, your squishy in that 5-6 good hits(many mobs on elite can hit for 35-45 on a normal hit) will kill you with only 200 hp, plus your only getting 50% from your own heals unless you invest heavily into healers friend( 12 AP for 25%). and for the +5 to saves? There is about 1% advantage to a 30 will save over 25, and about.01% advantage to a 35 fort save over 30.

The Turn Undead is no reason to gimp the other 99% of your character.

[Kalanth]

Your going to regret it at cap. Your gunna miss out on lvl 7th spells, lots of sp, and are going to be heavily gimped in melee(If your using a shield your not doing much damage at all, your squishy in that 5-6 good hits(many mobs on elite can hit for 35-45 on a normal hit) will kill you with only 200 hp, plus your only getting 50% from your own heals unless you invest heavily into healers friend( 12 AP for 25%). and for the +5 to saves? There is about 1% advantage to a 30 will save over 25, and about.01% advantage to a 35 fort save over 30.

The Turn Undead is no reason to gimp the other 99% of your character.

I have had 7th level spells... Yawn. I was bored with Destruction and all the others, they did nothing for me. I understand the AC thing, and HP note as well. I am going through the options to see what appeals to me. But as I said, I played a WF Cleric that only had 183 HP and barely broke 1000 SP (1083 with a scepter of the Magi). I still waded into battle and slugged it out in end game elite quests. It is not just the stats, but the player. Have had that experience I know how to fight with such a character and know full well when to back out of the battle. I will be dropping the Dex to an 8, and will invest it into the Con because it is a reasonable argument to have more HP.

In regards to heal, it always has a critical hit chance for those without Healers Friend. But I would not make a self sufficient character like this without healer’s friend. I know that with the right mix of items and enhancements you can heal a WF just like a fleshy. I have those items in the bank from the old cleric, so healing myself between and during is going to be easy. A stack of wands, a shield in the inventory to boost AC while wanding and scrolling, spells ready to go and an eye on the HP bars all while swinging. Takes practice to do efficiently, but its fun for me.

And I don't look at making things run away while simultaneously boosting saving throws as a gimp factor, but I can understand where others would.

[nbhs275]

trust me, on a battle cleric, destruction is a great spell. It's a great defensive spell. Zap a caster thats hard to get too, or that ogre smacking the wizard//bard//bad fighter around.

Also, for the crit chance, thats only 9-15% of the time, even with the best items. Making something based of a occurance thats less then 1/4 of the time is quite silly. Like making a wizard who does a whole lotta damage, but the spells only land 9-15% of the time( ala niac's)

[Maldini]

trust me, on a battle cleric, destruction is a great spell. It's a great defensive spell. Zap a caster thats hard to get too, or that ogre smacking the wizard//bard//bad fighter around.

Also, for the crit chance, thats only 9-15% of the time, even with the best items. Making something based of a occurance thats less then 1/4 of the time is quite silly. Like making a wizard who does a whole lotta damage, but the spells only land 9-15% of the time( ala niac's)

I don't know about that crit theory. A lot of Barbs use GA's, and with a 17 - 20 crit range, so we crit about 25% of the time. You can get 18% crit chance with enhancements and a Superior Lore item isn't anything to laugh at. Barbs crit quite often, so those crits will pop more often than you'd expect.

[Kalanth]

trust me, on a battle cleric, destruction is a great spell. It's a great defensive spell. Zap a caster thats hard to get too, or that ogre smacking the wizard//bard//bad fighter around.

If I went in there with a 24 Wis for destruction it would not land nearly as much as with a 28 (and so on up the line). Destruction is good for somethings, but as more and more monsters pop up with Death Ward it becomes useless. Destruction is, from experience, situationally great but there are other more note worthy spells in a clerics aresonal. For example, I could splice battle cleric with a page from Darkschneiders book on Null clerics. Slap the right things down, and make a cleric that is casting 600 - 700 point harms. Well past the most damaging effect a saved against Destruction will ever do, and effective against most enemies (flip the spell to Heal for undead).

I have done the straight cleric and know all about destruction. 13 / 1 is not something I am willing to do just for a spell I never really used that much in the first place. I know people do, but there was someone else on these forums that said if you are using just Destruction / PK / FOD for your enemies, you are going to run into problems fast.

[nbhs275]

I have a battle cleric, and i also know that your gunna have more problems then benefits. The extra draw of having charisma is going to hurt you. Your going to have to fit on a:

+6 cha
+6 con
+6 str
+6 wis
mod fort
wizardry item
Striding
Greater False Life
Resistance item
Protection item
Devotion item

OH, and as far as the heal thing, lets break it down.

Your Spellpoints

485 base
189 wisdom (if you get a +3 tome)
100 magi
60 enhancment
_________
834

You heal spell costs 35 sp, and heals for 143(or 198 with a sup. dev. 6 item) and only heals you for 107( 148 with the devotion). Already your gunna take forever to heal in combat. Not a good thing while your trying to fight.

That plus the costs of your buffs and your gunna be hurting.

Your gunna wanna have fire resist(15), acid resist(15), Deathward(25), True seeing(30), Spell resistance(30), freedom of movement(25), and nightshield(10) for 150. Nevermind if your buffing others.

It costs 52 SP every time you cast your DF+DP cocktail. So just ten minutes of your fight buffs cost 260.

So without the cost of healing your out 410 SP for the first ten minutes. That leaves enough SP for 12 Heal spells. That means that you have to hit shrines ASAP, because with the low efficiency of your heals, low AC, and below average damage your gunna burn through those.

And please don't use heal scrolls as an excuse. Your gunna **** if your using scrolls in the middle of a fight.

[oberon131313]

You must not be playing with a lot of barbarians :P

I *did* say fighters.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

not a bad idea. If you want to get into just weird multiclass though, 6 bard/ 6 cleric/ 2 barbarian. 3 rages, can hit the 44 str, and has a decent little song. not optimal but could be interesting.

I'm going to try out 6cleric/ 6rogue (way of the assassin) / 2fighter, and put this to the test.

[nbhs275]

they way of the assasin is what? intel damage?

[Vaarsuvius]

I just rolled up a wf cleric because of this enhancment. I am excited to see how he turns out after hearing about how uber battleclerics are. I see here everybody wants to have 3 classes, has anyone considered going straight cleric or 13 cleric / 1 pally like some of the BC builds. This would be my first, first cleric and first WF, is there a reason not to go all cleric or 13/1?

[Sadus]

This is my Current WF Pally triple class...

One of the very nice things about this guys is I can play with a lot of stats. As I upgrade from +2 tomes to +3's I can drop enhancements points to keep myself even.

This guy is a good mix of offense and survivability (High AC, LOH, High Svs, Evasion, WF Immunities (Can we say LvL Drain Anyone???))

With Khopesh's and a Bloodstone he crits 100+ plus burst damage... (Although I do admit I have a better collection than most avg. players)

I have no delusions that I'm going to out DPS a Barb... but then again I'll live thru things that barbs couldn't possibly even imagine... so it takes me 2-3 more swings to kill something.... oh well... I'll take my survivability over their improved dps.


Here is his break down for his 1 min of glory Using SoS

+17 Str (Assuming DDO Rounds Up)
+5 Wep
+12 PA
+1 Rage
+2 Madstone
+2 BladeTrans
+4 BladeTrans
+3 Divine Favor
+9 Smite Evil

+55 Total to damage

So Normal Hit Damage Range is 2d6 = 56-67 / Critical Hit = 186-219

As my levels increase my Smite Damage will increase and I will be able to increase my WF PA Bonus. The Obvious use of this ability is to boost damage vs Raid Bosses during the final beat down.... Given the current 20 Min Cool Down... ATM I don't actually have the enhancement using instead Brute Fighting IV for 25% Hate Increase and +1 Str since I haven't gotten a +3 Str Tome Yet.

I'll have 3 LOH to keep myself up if I grab aggro... and my AC will still be in the mid 40's using SoS so I won't be an cough on me and hit me like most Barbs

IMO this enhancement works much better on WF Paladins do to their generally high offense output to a cleric and since they can still use LOH while BT is active.

Here's the Build...

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.70
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 14 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(3 Fighter \ 9 Paladin \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 254
Spell Points: 126 
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 16
Will: 12

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 14)           (Level 14)
Strength             16                 22                   22
Dexterity            13                 16                   16
Constitution         13                 16                   18
Intelligence         11                 14                   14
Wisdom               11                 14                   14
Charisma             12                 15                   17

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 14
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 14
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 14
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 14
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 14

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 14)          (Level 14)
Balance               6                 10                    8
Bluff                 1                  3                    3
Concentration         2                  4                    4
Diplomacy             1                  3                    3
Disable Device        n/a               n/a                   n/a
Haggle                5                  7                    7
Heal                  1                  2                    2
Hide                  2                  3                    1
Intimidate            5                 19.5                 20.5
Jump                  7                 10                    8
Listen                1                  2                    2
Move Silently         2                  3                    1
Open Lock             6                  7                    8
Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                  2                    2
Search                1                  2                    2
Spot                  5                  6                    6
Swim                  7                 10                    6
Tumble                n/a               n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      5                 20                   20

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Mithral Body

Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh

Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons

Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Intimidate (+5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack

Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Bladesworn Transformation
Enhancement: Follower of the Lord of Blades
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend II
Enhancement: Warforged Power Attack I

AC Break Down

(Self-Buffed)
10 Base
10 Armor
9 Shield
5 Dex
3 Aura
4 Natural (Usually Use Madstone While Tanking)
5 Protection
6 Dodge
1 Haste
1 Parry (Current Tanking Weapon is a +3 Bodyfeeder Scimitar of Parrying)
2 Defensive Fighting

56 Total

+1 Full Pally (or when I hit lvl 11 Pally)
+1 Ranger Bark
+2 Recitation

60 Fully Buffed

+1 @ lvl 11 Pally for Full Aura
+3 More Down the Road when I pick up Combat Expertise.

The boat is still out on the lvl 20 Plan....

Either going to go 11 Pal/7 Fit/2 Rogue fore more AC via Armor Mastery I + Tower Shield Master II & +2 Strength Enhancement w/ Weapon Specialization

Or 14 Pal / 4 Fit / 2 Rog for Self-Cast Deathward better LOH & Smites & Wep Specialization

I'll just have to see...