New rogue question

[yahaa]

I have never played a rogue, and I am wanting to know which way to go here. Intell. or wisdom, are both needed?? I plan on staying pure rogue. With maybe one level of Ranger, but not sure. Any help would be appreciated.

[Girevik]

I'm hardly a Rogue expert, but Intelligence is much more important than Wisdom at character creation.

Intelligence effects the Search and Disable Device skills. Wisdom effect the Spot skill. (The first two are essential for disabling traps, you will Spot it even if you do so by tripping it.)


Intelligence gives you skill points at level up. Only your natural Int helps here, so items won't help make up for a lack.


Wisdom does help with Will saves.


I wouldn't completely dump stat Wisdom, but a 14 Int and 10 Wis or so Rogue is going to have a much easier time than a 14 Wis and 10 Int one.

[binnsr]

I agree with Girevik there.. Int is more important than Wis, but not to the point of completely dumping it .. If you shoot for the current spot-highwater mark of 36, then you can get by with either a 10 or 12 wis.
I overkilled on my rogue by taking a 14 Wis -- while it's nice to be able to be the second wis-rune-guy in VoN5 (14+1tome+5item=20), i think those points could have been better spent in Str or Con because he's got an unbuffed spot of 37 (with a +10 item)

[Rindalathar]

You know, I think rogues and the question on stat. point allocation is the hardest class to make decisions on. Because you're the most skill-based class, deciding what to "give up" is always a struggle.

Regarding the INT and WIS, the above posters have it right. You really want to have a higher INT upon character creation. How high is going to depend on your goals and playstyle. I like to play back-up tank so I went heavier on CON and STR. My WIS and INT suffered a little, but with high-end equipment you can still really shine as a rogue (I still can't get the Cabal trap on elite, but still sit at a 57 search, which is pretty good).

[Shamguard]

I have never played a rogue, and I am wanting to know which way to go here. Intell. or wisdom, are both needed?? I plan on staying pure rogue. With maybe one level of Ranger, but not sure. Any help would be appreciated.

If your are looking at a pure rogue build, IMO, the order of stats importance is:
1) INT (skill points, search, disable device)
2) DEX (hide, move silent, open locks, reflex save, and with weapon finesse attack)
3) CHA (UMD, bluff, diplomacy, haggle)
4) STR (with out weapon finesse BA, and extra damage)
5) CON (hit points, fort save)
6) WIS (spot and will save)

This is of course a DEX based rogue so crossbows and weapon finesse are your friends at lower levels. Though you may want a higher DEX than INT I list INT first because to many people discount its importance to a skill based rogue, a starting INT of 14 or 16 should be plenty, same with DEX, but if you have to have a stat that is 18 or 20 (elf, drow, halfling) I'd make it your DEX.
CHA is really only helpful in DDO for UMD the other skills are nice to have but not neccessary for a rogue in DDO.
STR, CON really up to you, your real damage dealing is going to be from sneak attack so a high DEX with weapon finesse will get you farther as a pure rogue than a high STR will. CON is extra hit points, always nice to have.
WIS other than your spot skill WIS doesn't do much for a rogue. Get yourself a nice spot boost item and you should do OK. Same for the will save, find a resistance item and hide alot from casters.

This is my opinion on how I prefer to build a rogue. Has worked for me in both PnP and DDO. I know there are others who prefer the "thug" build rogues with more STR. I'm more of the sneak attack/ stealth rogue.

One more thing never underestimate the value of a good haggle skill, you can get a long way with a cleric just by buying them wands at less than the list price.

[yahaa]

A big Thank you to all who have helped me out in here. Will Go for the max dex to start, followed by intell. I plan on taking 2 levels of ranger to get the twf feat for free. TY to all above!!!

[wamjratl1]

A big Thank you to all who have helped me out in here. Will Go for the max dex to start, followed by intell. I plan on taking 2 levels of ranger to get the twf feat for free. TY to all above!!!

Everyone above had it right but I wanted to add that you are making toe right choice with 2 lvls of ranger. One is not worth it but two gives you TWF and rapid shot .if ur going to range at all, this is very worth it - you prob won't get huge DPS with a bow but if you get some good stat damaging bows you can really be an asset to your group. If you are an elf, you get some bow enhancements you can take that will help out too.

Enjoy playing your rogue! They are tons of fun.

[Impaqt]

Take a Look at my deathdealer build linked in my sig. Shes a rogue that can hit all essential traps in the game with no problem and can deal a lot of damage as well. Sounds like what your after.

TWF is tricky to do right on a rogue build because you need to use 3 feats to do it right. and Rogues dont get any bonus Feats to play with....

[yahaa]

I want to disable traps, and do everything that a rogue needs to do ;however, I do want twf also. I was thinking start out rogue, then 2 levels of ranger next, then all rogue from then on. Not sure about the fighter, but was debating 3 levels of pally, but that might take away my effectiveness. Might stick with the 2 levels of ranger, and then rogue after that till the end of time. It should be fun, or fun rerolling.....lol

[Impaqt]

Heres the Holy variant of my Deathdealer build
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...ht=Deathdealer

I would recomend Paly at L15 and ROgue at 16 when the cap goes up for the Extra Save/Armor AUra and Fear Immunity.... You could probobly work it into the L14 Build if you like, But thenyou lose Rogue Dex 3....

Either way its a very effective build.

[yahaa]

I am taking no less than 10 levels of rogue. That should allow me to function as a very dependable rogue. Plus I want the improved evasion that comes with 10th level. 2 Levels of ranger gives me the twf, which I want. Have 2 levels to play with after that, and Paladin looks nice.
1. Rogue
2. Ranger
3 Ranger
4 rogue
5 rogue
6 rogue
7 rogue
8 paladin
9 rogue
10 rogue
11 paladin
12 rogue
13 rogue
14 rogue
What do ya think?

[Roguewiz]

I am taking no less than 10 levels of rogue. That should allow me to function as a very dependable rogue. Plus I want the improved evasion that comes with 10th level. 2 Levels of ranger gives me the twf, which I want. Have 2 levels to play with after that, and Paladin looks nice.
1. Rogue
2. Ranger
3 Ranger
4 rogue
5 rogue
6 rogue
7 rogue
8 paladin
9 rogue
10 rogue
11 paladin
12 rogue
13 rogue
14 rogue
What do ya think?

One thing you need to keep in mind, the later in levels you take Paladin, the less "max ranks" you'll have. You may want to consider taking Paladin earlier on, and take Ranger later. Ranger get 6+INT per level in skills, Paladins only get 2+INT.

Do you plan on going the full progression of TWF feats, or do you intend on only going with the base feat from Ranger? If so, I wouldn't waste the levels. TWF alone isn't enough. You would honestly need ITWF and GTWF to be viable. Unfortunately, you won't have the necessary BAB to get GTWF until level 15.

Exactly what feats/stat distribution are you looking at?

[binnsr]

Personally, I would do it this way:
1 rogue - TWF (swap for Nimble Fingers before 5)
2 paladin (aura of good)
3 ranger - Weapon Finesse (bowstr)
4 ranger (twf & rapid shot)
5 rogue (evasion)
6 rogue Quick Draw or Toughness or SF: UMD
7 rogue (uncanny dodge)
8 rogue
9 rogue - Improved TWF
10 paladin (divine grace & LOH)
11 rogue
12 rogue - Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons (improved uncanny dodge)
13 rogue
14 rogue (improved evasion)
*feats in parenthesis are class-granted feats)
Since it sounds like you want the ranger levels for TWF, that at lvl1, then swap it out using your free harbor respec before you take ranger 2 at lvl4.
The levels of paladin, since you're not taking 3 for the fear immunity, can really be squeezed in there anywhere -- although if you don't dump cha, divine grace can be very nice, particularly with the poor will save that rogues typically have.


edit: if you take fighter levels instead of ranger levels, you can take fighter2 at lvl 14 and fit in greater two weapon fighting at that time..