So the raid loot whiners got their way...

[Varis]

Yeah, because they have such a good record on that. Anyone but me remember the days before drow and 32 point builds when VoN5 required two 25+ Str melees, and two 25+ Int casters at lvl10? Yeah, the Devs never gear for min/max, roflmfao.

LOL you think a 25+ stat requirement is min/max ... you can reach that with a 12 in your main stat by level 10... (if you actually min/max, you can reach 25 with a 10 base by 10th level...)

1 trap in the entire game with a high search DC and that's = min/max?



Those raid changes are very positive. They encourage full raid parties, help puggers get in on raids, encourage guilds so people share the raid loot, etc.

Those that are NOT happy are the solo or 2 man raid looters that where thrilled to get 2 items per time they do it all for themselves.

[bandyman1]

The Int requirement at the time was 25, let's see;

18 max start ( there were no 32 point builds or drow )
+3 enhancements
+2 lvls (4th and 8th, 10th was cap )
+4 item or fox's cunning ( and I stress the buff, because +4 stat items to anything other than Str { delara's reward } were incredibly hard to find )
tomes, forget it ( would have had to have been a +1, +2s didn't drop yet, and if you pulled a +1 you were the luckest bastage most people knew )

That would be a 27 giving two points of leeway. So mind telling me where you were supposed to come up with the extra +6 you would have had to have to make that rune with a 10 base?

Ever wonder why the Devs changed the requirement?

[Taur]

Final poll results:
For: 140
Against: 153

Total Votes: 293

Percentages As of 293 Total Votes
For: 47.78%
Against: 52.22%



Please show how what I said (more people thought negatively) is wrong.

Again, what you stated was YOUR opinion, and that opinion was in the minority. So can't you stop, just for one second, and think, hey, maybe all those people have a point? No, it doesn't appear you can, you much rather call them all names and believe in the superiority of your own opinion.

Time will tell... this is the beginning of the end. the thing about endgame content is the devs have to keep it interesting for everyone. for endgame players, that is working to get the raid loot you want. when you make the raids a fountain of raid loot, folks are gonna get what they want too quickly and get bored with the endgame content. then we'll see an exodus of folks because there becomes a point where there's nothing else to do.

[wundernewb]

can't wait for age of conan

If it means all the doomsayers and whiners will go play it, neither can I.

[Aspenor]

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the way the loot mechanic was originally intended for mod 5. However, the whining mass of doomcriers has made the dev team crumble to the knees of monty haul.

I sure hope the new content is at least somewhat fun. Though, with it being an extension of the the already unpopular necrapolass, i think there are going to be a lot of people still running PoP as a time grind.

Let the flame war begin.

YOu are wrong. The new raid loot system had plenty wrong with it. That is all.

[geoffhanna]

LMAO! Sure they should. I mean it's incredibly easy to hit 50 search for the Cabal trap on normal with a lvl13, non min-maxed, non-elf/drow rogue, right?

Sorry bro. I had no trouble getting that trap on normal with my drow rogue, but only because I started with a high Int, got great gear, way of the mechanic, and lots of APs invested.

That's one chest. One. In the entire game. Come on lets at least pretend we have some kind of perspective

[Drak]

However, the whining mass of doomcriers has made the dev team crumble to the knees of monty haul.

So 2 items between 12 people who cannot run the raid again for 3 days is monty haul ?

OK got ya

And those of us who make it more challenging by shortmanning it (hence getting more loot per 3 days between the 12) dont deserve the extra loot we can get that way, I understand now, ty for the wisdom of your words, glad to educated by someone who must be as intelligent as a kallashtaar

[oronisi]

LMAO! Sure they should. I mean it's incredibly easy to hit 50 search for the Cabal trap on normal with a lvl13, non min-maxed, non-elf/drow rogue, right?

Sorry bro. I had no trouble getting that trap on normal with my drow rogue, but only because I started with a high Int, got great gear, way of the mechanic, and lots of APs invested.

That's 1 trap box....one. Name another that you can't do with a non-minmaxxed character. One instance does not make a rule, it makes an exception. As far as I'm concerned, that box is not meant to be found. It's like when the devs put an unopenable chest on the other side of a falling floor. I don't see you calling all chests broken because that one is unobtainable.

[Harbinder]

It's really not a min-max game. ^

-->Just ninja'd myself

[Harbinder]

Potions that give alchemal bonus to your stats. Drink it you can get 10 base up high enough for the von5 lever:

10 base
+2 level
+3 enh
+6 DP clickie
+2 alchemal bonus (potion)
+2 rage potion
=

25 str from base 10

[Roguewiz]

All content is designed around 28pt toons. 32pt toons just make them marginally easier. Thus, all quests can be compelted on Elite by 28pt toons. My main, Raquelis (28pt), has completed virtually every quest on Elite (minus a few I haven't done yet out of the Desert)

Any non-min maxed Rogue worth anything, can hit Cabal on normal

17 Ranks
+13 Item (come on...you should at least have this by then.)
+4 Int Mod (14 Int + 4 Item = 18 int)
+2 Elf
+4 Enhancements (Rogue Search II and WotM)
+4 G-Hero
+3 Boost
47 Search without being spec'd for traps.

I like the adjustments they made. Much much better imo

[Vinos]

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the way the loot mechanic was originally intended for mod 5. However, the whining mass of doomcriers has made the dev team crumble to the knees of monty haul.

I sure hope the new content is at least somewhat fun. Though, with it being an extension of the the already unpopular necrapolass, i think there are going to be a lot of people still running PoP as a time grind.

Let the flame war begin.

Why would you even start a thread like this?

[bandyman1]

Potions that give alchemal bonus to your stats. Drink it you can get 10 base up high enough for the von5 lever:

10 base
+2 level
+3 enh
+6 DP clickie
+2 alchemal bonus (potion)
+2 rage potion
=

25 str from base 10

Check my post. Was talking about Int, not Str. Alchemal pots weren't in the game yet either. So you lose around 10 from your figures there.

[Cinwulf]

Why would you even start a thread like this?

This is why:

...
Let the flame war begin.

[bandyman1]

All content is designed around 28pt toons. 32pt toons just make them marginally easier. Thus, all quests can be compelted on Elite by 28pt toons. My main, Raquelis (28pt), has completed virtually every quest on Elite (minus a few I haven't done yet out of the Desert)

Any non-min maxed Rogue worth anything, can hit Cabal on normal

17 Ranks
+13 Item (come on...you should at least have this by then.)
+4 Int Mod (14 Int + 4 Item = 18 int)
+2 Elf
+4 Enhancements (Rogue Search II and WotM)
+4 G-Hero
+3 Boost
47 Search without being spec'd for traps.

I like the adjustments they made. Much much better imo

Take a look at the post you are replying to. What part of non-elf/drow didn't you see? So that puts you 5 shy of the 50 that was needed, with GH on normal. Now, a 13th lvl rogue will have access to action boost IV giving them a + 5 mod instead of +3, so that puts you back at 47. Still three shy. So spend even MORE aps to make up the difference. Wait.....you can only get rogue search IV, you don't have a racial line if your not an elf/drow. That still leaves you a point shy. Better hope you have a luck item or can get a prayer. Yay!!! We can get it!

How many aps did that cost? It took every enhancement available ( and a lot of ****, I might add for WoTM, even though my rogue has it ) to a non-elf/drow for boosting search. And you don't consider that speced for traps? And you needed outside buffs as well. On normal.

[Roguewiz]

Take a look at the post you are replying to. What part of non-elf/drow didn't you see? So that puts you 5 shy of the 50 that was needed, with GH on normal. Now, a 13th lvl rogue will have access to action boost IV giving them a + 5 mod instead of +3, so that puts you back at 47. Still three shy. So spend even MORE aps to make up the difference. Wait.....you can only get rogue search IV, you don't have a racial line if your not an elf/drow. That still leaves you a point shy. Better hope you have a luck item or can get a prayer. Yay!!! We can get it!

How many aps did that cost? It took every enhancement available ( and a lot of ****, I might add for WoTM, even though my rogue has it ) to a non-elf/drow for boosting search. And you don't consider that speced for traps? And you needed an outside buffs as well. On normal.

No, I consider trap spec'd someone that took all the enhancements AND the feats.

There are otherways to get it up via spells. It is still quite obtainable without being "spec'd". I totally missed the non-elf/drow part.

[Dariun]

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the way the loot mechanic was originally intended for mod 5.

Raids aren't my thing, so this issue doesn't affect me one way or the other, but it was clear that many people were very unhappy with the proposed changes.

I think it is a good thing that the developers took note of this and made modifications to increase the general happiness with the new system.

Frankly, I suspect that if the "revised" system were the first one put forth by the devs you would have no complaints at all. It seems what is bothering you is that (1) people voiced their opinions and (2) the devs listened and responded.

Not sure why that bothers you. I think it is great. I actually uninstalled Risia months ago in disgust because it seemed to me the devs rarely made significant changes in response to player feedback. Glad to be proved wrong about that.

[Dariun]

What part of non-elf/drow didn't you see?

Ah, well, you can't really blame him. Update 3.3 essentially made the Rogue class Race Required Elf/Drow.

[bandyman1]

Ok. I'm going to make one more post, then this thread can burn for all I care.
I think alot of peeps here are posting before they've really read the entire thread, maybe they just skimmed it. This is what prompted my first post in this thread. Clawstorm, NOT I, posted this;

No offense but DDO is designed for min/max toons. How viable are the average rounded out toons who don't have a max stat and are unable to pull their lever or rune, etc disarm blah blah...etc.

Now, maybe I was just looking at it the wrong way, but that post to me said that someone was frustrated that their toon wasn't performing like they'd hoped. I felt bad for the guy.

Eladin responded like this;

Originally posted by Eladin
On Normal difficulty? They should be fine.

Maybe I was drinking too much, I don't know, but I took it as a flippant, elitist comment. It ****ed me off. That prompted my OP.

Now somewhere along the thread, someone got it into their head that I said 28 point builds weren't viable. Where the hell he came up with it I'll never know. It's not in any of my posts. So I asked them to point out where I said that. No reply.

Then someone else says well I don't see where you said that, but this game is not geared for min/max. In quotes like I said THAT.

Funny thing is, I never said that either, at that point.

So, I explained the reasoning behind my posts, to no avail. Peeps still giving me ****.

Lol, then I got someone trying to tell me how to get a 25 Str from a 10 at 10th lvl, not realizing that 1) my latter posts were talking about Int, and 2) using buffs that weren't even in the game in the time period I was referring to.

[mgoldb2]

Lol, then I got someone trying to tell me how to get a 25 Str from a 10 at 10th lvl, not realizing that 1) my latter posts were talking about Int, and 2) using buffs that weren't even in the game in the time period I was referring to.

EDIT: never mind after catching up on the thread I relize more then likly you was not talking about my post.