Beholders and Enervation

[Namelessone]

Since when did Beholder start having access to the spell Enervation?

The Beholders Eye Rays have 10 spells the can cast from (the big eye in the middle is the Antimagic Cone)

The 10 spells a Beholder has access to are:
Charm Monster
Charm Person
Disintegrate
Fear
Finger of Death
Flesh to Stone
Inflict Moderate Wounds
Sleep
Slow
Telekinesis

Enervate is not on the list para 3.5 Monster Manual. . . then why was my paladin being Enervated by a Beholder?

[JosephKell]

I imagine during play testing they realized that Paladins were pretty much laughing at beholders, so they decided to make it a fairer fight.

[Cidolfas]

Would you really want the raged barbarian charmed?

[Lithic]

They had to change them otherwise beholders would not be the feared eye-tyrants of Pnp. All players are immune to charm monster and person, and anone lvl 4 or more is immune to sleep (or 5? whatever its lower than the level at which characters meet their first beholder).

To replace these useless eyebilities, they added enervation and scorching ray to the list. I can remember seeing:

Telekinesis
Scorching ray
Disintegrate
Enervation
Cause wounds (I think, not entirely sure of this one)
Flesh to Stone
Finger of Death

[PaintHorseCowboy]

Maybe it's a special beholder breed.

You've obviously played PnP and you honestly have never had a DM throw you a curve ball?

If that's truly the case, I nominate your DM for The Order of Saint Theresa for being a kind, generous, and loving DM who only wants to see his players hugging butterflies.

My DM was more the kind that actually made it a challenge. I mean, if I could take down an elder beholder solo with spit wads and harsh language...

...well....

...sort of defeats the purpose doesn't it?

[Ishturi]

uhm... They've had enervation since... over a year ago?

[Namelessone]

Well, all I can say is what happens when Mr. Beholder drops you 10 levels in 6 seconds. . .

I'm not talking about curve balls from a DM, I'm talking about balance in general.

And well, 10 levels in 6 seconds does sound fair. . .

I don't think enervation was the right choice to balance the DC of a Beholder to the party, or the paladin for that matter.

[Mad_Bombardier]

Would you really want the raged barbarian charmed?

YES! That would be awesome.

[Ghoste]

They had to change them otherwise beholders would not be the feared eye-tyrants of Pnp. All players are immune to charm monster and person, and anone lvl 4 or more is immune to sleep (or 5? whatever its lower than the level at which characters meet their first beholder).

Not entirely true. When characters get hit with dominate person they just stand still. Charm spells would probably work the same way. And the warforged in VoN 4 seem to have access to a beefed up version of the sleep spell that can affect high level characters (except for elves and warforged).

[Dormammu]

im a warforge pally combo build......i can still laugh at beholders as they cant lvl drain me...

[Shade]

The monster manual also lists a sorcerer beholder, which can cast any spells a sorcerer can. Those ones stats are CR are also more in line with the DDO versions. The basic beholder wouldn't stand a chance against our inflated imunity enhanced characters.

[Yndrofian]

All players are immune to charm monster and person, and anone lvl 4 or more is immune to sleep (or 5? whatever its lower than the level at which characters meet their first beholder).

drow and elves are immune to sleep (not sure about WF)
ever run von 4 w/lvl appropriate characters?
yeah.. you get put to sleep a lot in there as lvl 9/10's
i guess they could have changed that, as its been a looooong time since i ran von4 on lvl appropriate character

**edit
it may be deep slumber they cast
hmmm....

[Shade]

yeah.. you get put to sleep a lot in there as lvl 9/10's

Lvl5 is imune to the sleep spell. But there is a higher lvl version called Deep Slumber they also cast.
Gota be lvl11 to be imune to that.

[dameron]

Would you really want the raged barbarian charmed?

A nearly ubiquitous 1st level spell renders completely negates charm/dominate as does a fairly common drop (the fragment of the Silver Flame).

The real problem is that beholders don't emit an antimagic field like in PnP, they automatically dispel effects cast on players.

In PnP, cast Death Ward on a paladin fighting a theoretical Enervation spamming beholder. The beholder can't simultaneously negate the "Death Ward" and also hit him with Enervation since even the beholder's rays will not function in an area of antimagic.

This "bug" has been around since launch and it's one of the cheesier things in the whole **** game.

[PaintHorseCowboy]

Well, all I can say is what happens when Mr. Beholder drops you 10 levels in 6 seconds. . .

I'm not talking about curve balls from a DM, I'm talking about balance in general.

You know, they make this item for this and fun spells/metamagic feat combos that let you actually kill beholders from range.

Also, aberration slayers and a host of other things to make dealing with nasties a little less "unpleasant".

Combat tactics....might want to learn a few.

[Ghoste]

Meh, if the pallies in the group cant deal with the beholders,cast feeblemind on them. Then they'll have no problem busting up those ten-eyed pinatas.

[LeLoric]

If your that worried about it get the 2nd version of the silver flame amulet it stops 5 charges of enervate and negates the finger attack of beholder. those two tend to be the worst I find of all the rays

[Namelessone]

You know, they make this item for this and fun spells/metamagic feat combos that let you actually kill beholders from range.

Also, aberration slayers and a host of other things to make dealing with nasties a little less "unpleasant".

Combat tactics....might want to learn a few.

I am talking about Function/mechanics not tactics.

Of course there are spells you can cast, of course there are ranged attacks, of course there are items you can obtain (Beholder Optic Nerve, Silver Flame Pendant, and so on), of course there are types of weapons you can use (slaying ammunition, paralyzer weapons, and so on)

I am not talking about tactics, and ways to deal with a Beholder. There are many ways to deal with a Beholder.

I am talking about the Beholders in general could be unbalanced and the solution that the devs used (enervation being one of them) was not a good choice.

And regards to your advice on my needed to learn a few combat tactics. . . I don't need your advice, so no thanks.

[Lithic]

Can you honestly say that beholders are unbalanced in DDO as they are? I mean sure they are a huge pain to characters that like to run around with 80 buffs (like my WF battlemage hehe), but they almost always end up dead with one or two players dead. Personally I think they are deadly enough to be a serious threat (as they should be), but not overly so.

Ghoste: The dominate you are talking about is from vampires, and is not the same as Dominate Person (the wizard spell). The devs have stated that characters are immune to Charm spells, and I can personally only remember getting the pink hat in a battle with the LOTD vampire. True they COULD make charm spells work like the vampire dominate, but they didn't, at least not yet.

[Namelessone]

Perhaps. . . but I am also thinking ahead when lv 8 and 9 spells come out and suddenly we have Beholders who can cast spells like Power word: Kill. . .

How do the devs plan on balancing Beholders lvs 15 and up?