This is cracking me up

[Greybrow]

Maybe they just wanted the exp bonus for disabling traps?

That is of course entirely possible. Personally I have been through there so many times that I just want to get it done. Anymore I have a hard time imagining someone wanting to take their time through WW.

But then again, not everyone is hardcore like me.

[sigtrent]

I have to say....

There are some cases and some parties and some quests where you know that if you go in wtihout X character class things arn't going to be pretty and they arn't going to go smoothly.

You could do VON 5 without a rogue, but its going to be a lot messier. You could run BAM with only melee characters, but its not going to be very fast. You can do VON 2 without a cleric, but unless someone has a skad of +20 saves there will be some recalls and possibly re-starts.

Capped folks.. usualy it doesn't matter. Twinked lowbies.. totaly irrelivent. But if folks are doing a quest over level, or they are new or very casual players those traditional class rolls really do matter. Some parties really can't survive without a decent healer, but could if they had one. I've been there and seen that in action.

My battle bard had to play cleric for a pug at one point and it was not pretty. Things can be a lot harder when the only source of elemental resists in the party are 10pt potions and wands. :P I tried to get my rogue blooded a couple nights back but no one in the party could pull agro from him. So when combating the dragons he would pull agro hard and get pulverized. I fetched my fighter who has many more HP and it was much easier for the whole party. Now if someoen else had a durable tank in there my rougue would have been great, but if he ends up bieng the tank.. things arn't going to go well against red and purple names.

Not to say there arn't tons of folks who don't do what were all talking about but I think most of us know there are circumstances where it does make sense to look for a given type of character, or at least one with certain skills.

[Greybrow]

I have to say....

There are some cases and some parties and some quests where you know that if you go in wtihout X character class things arn't going to be pretty and they arn't going to go smoothly.

You could do VON 5 without a rogue, but its going to be a lot messier. You could run BAM with only melee characters, but its not going to be very fast. You can do VON 2 without a cleric, but unless someone has a skad of +20 saves there will be some recalls and possibly re-starts.

Capped folks.. usualy it doesn't matter. Twinked lowbies.. totaly irrelivent. But if folks are doing a quest over level, or they are new or very casual players those traditional class rolls really do matter. Some parties really can't survive without a decent healer, but could if they had one. I've been there and seen that in action.

My battle bard had to play cleric for a pug at one point and it was not pretty. Things can be a lot harder when the only source of elemental resists in the party are 10pt potions and wands. :P I tried to get my rogue blooded a couple nights back but no one in the party could pull agro from him. So when combating the dragons he would pull agro hard and get pulverized. I fetched my fighter who has many more HP and it was much easier for the whole party. Now if someoen else had a durable tank in there my rougue would have been great, but if he ends up bieng the tank.. things arn't going to go well against red and purple names.

Not to say there arn't tons of folks who don't do what were all talking about but I think most of us know there are circumstances where it does make sense to look for a given type of character, or at least one with certain skills.

For some quests certain classes are definately necessary. At high levels, anyway. Playing a quest like, "Made to Order," on elite would be nearly impossible without a rounded out party including a cleric and a rogue.

But at low levels? Cmon...

[Scarsgaard]

exactly...

WW's? Durk's? STK? Deleras? SC? lol... now I'm not offended if someone says to me "NO WAY MAN... I gotta have these classes in party or I can't do it", because in fact this person has just done me a huge favour... he has in essence just warned me that if I run with him... it'll take hours to do do WW instead of 25+/- minute full run. What can I say but "cheers man..lol"

I'm not offended as much as amused.. I can't be rude because this person isn't either. If the person were let say for amusements sake Jundak.. then it might be a different story... because my conclusion would be SO very different, but this is obviously someone new to the game.

You gotta admit... someone saying NO your Pally/Ranger/Sorc etc can't join in my WW because I just gotta get some other class or we'll fail is funny... not insulting...

[lostinjapan]

You can also tell because they haven't specified their lfm list...

I almost never specify class in the LFM, but will include a note. Why?

Well if I'm looking for someone who can tank...

• I've got a rogue who can tank. Seriously.
• I've got a ranger who can tank.
• I've seen clerics who can tank.
• Etc.

So why would I limit myself to just fighters, paladins and barbarians?

As for healing...while having a cleric is NICE (I not only have a cleric I appreciate them greatly), they are not required in a group. If a cleric or healing bard isn't already in my group when I put up an LFM, I specify "bring your own pots".

When I see someone who has an LFM up and they've used the note to specify they want a tank, but they've put the class limit to fighters, paladins and barbarians, I make a mental note to try to educate them. Some people are just clueless as to what other classes (and multi-classes) beyond their own (and in some cases even their own) are capable of. They need education. With guidance they might actually be decent players someday.

[gorloch]

Respect the noob, or the game suffers.

Seriously .. they are not 'idiots' they are simply inexperienced. Also, many will have a LFM up that originally wanted every class type because at the time they created it they were the only person in the party. As the party fills up, they forget to change it, or don't realize it's important.

Also, if you are that self-sufficient, why are you asking to join a group? :P

I agree there are inexperienced players that just need someone to help teach them the game. But there are idiots as well. Those who don't want to listen no matter how many times you tell them. The other part about why get in a party if you are self-sufficient, I don't know about you but after sometime it gets boring being all by yourself. I can only do so much soloing before I start wanting to hear someone elses voice besides the narrator.

PIXA

[Uamhas]

Speaking as someone that builds and runs in pugs frequently, I'll share with you my persepective. Some people lead only because nobody else will. When that is the case, they generally go with the will of the party. When there are 4 other people clamoring for CLERICCLERICCLERIC! It takes someone with a stiff upper lip to buck the system. I've learned, through trial and error (sometimes it takes more than once for me to catch on) that other party makeups not only work, but they provide for more fun in the doing of the thing.. One of the funnest Tempest spines I ever did (aside from Merlask's legendary Tipsy Tempest) was an all-caster run. I love to see dancing blackguards, it may seem mundane to everyone else... but.. *shrug* Well, anyhow. 'nuff blather outta me
...Erda is awesome

[Wotansdottir]

Speaking as someone that builds and runs in pugs frequently, I'll share with you my persepective. Some people lead only because nobody else will. When that is the case, they generally go with the will of the party. When there are 4 other people clamoring for CLERICCLERICCLERIC! It takes someone with a stiff upper lip to buck the system. I've learned, through trial and error (sometimes it takes more than once for me to catch on) that other party makeups not only work, but they provide for more fun in the doing of the thing.. One of the funnest Tempest spines I ever did (aside from Merlask's legendary Tipsy Tempest) was an all-caster run. I love to see dancing blackguards, it may seem mundane to everyone else... but.. *shrug* Well, anyhow. 'nuff blather outta me
...Erda is awesome

Girly you are cracking me up lately!!! All caster runs are VERY fun. We need to do some more of these!!! For a long time I'll admit I was a traditional party makeup person, but it started to become less important as I got to know my own characters better and found their strengths. A few posts up I thought the author had some good points with the 'Respect the n00bs...' LOL.

ERDA <3 UMA!!!!!!!

[adamkatt]

yep... if I'm looking to join, I even add "I'm very experienced, self sufficient" etc into the tell... the funniest thing is, is that if the person says "nope, we gotta have this <insert class>, I can only think "whew... I got lucky there"

Man your giving up too much info, give em some mystery!

[Uamhas]

Girly you are cracking me up lately!!! All caster runs are VERY fun. We need to do some more of these!!! For a long time I'll admit I was a traditional party makeup person, but it started to become less important as I got to know my own characters better and found their strengths. A few posts up I thought the author had some good points with the 'Respect the n00bs...' LOL.

ERDA <3 UMA!!!!!!!

oh... oh yes... random thought... All girl, caster only (includes clerics, being DIVINE casters), naked... VELAH! Now if they'd just use girl DMs for "feminine sounding voices"...

.... erda rocks!

[BUpcott]

.... erda rocks!

How easily I am forgotten. :'(

[Clay]

I agree there are inexperienced players that just need someone to help teach them the game. But there are idiots as well. Those who don't want to listen no matter how many times you tell them. The other part about why get in a party if you are self-sufficient, I don't know about you but after sometime it gets boring being all by yourself. I can only do so much soloing before I start wanting to hear someone elses voice besides the narrator.

PIXA

especially if said narrator is Gygax!

[Uamhas]

How easily I am forgotten. :'(

Perish the thought Jammiekinz!! I could never forget you, nor would I wish to. Especially not after that time.. in the desert... with Jameela the princess and Solonora the noob...
*sigh*
The desert is Solo's favorite place, btw..

[Rooks]

Had a similar one a couple of days ago from someone when I had an LFM up for POP.

I was clericing and we had a tank and caster already, so I throw it out there for pretty much anything but another cleric(personal preference I like to cleric POP on my own or with a guildie cleric). The same cleric tries to join like 9 times. I probably decline other legit joiners based on this AC spamming me with join requests as I was running across the marketplace.

Honestly I figure it was someone who had bought an account, as most players who have an alt that they would like to send just send a tell. And silly fool that I am I forgot write down the name.

The problem for this guy was the fact that he is a CLERIC.

Didn't you know that a Cleric is NEVER turned down for a group, he figured you were mistaken and kept retrying, or maybe his join request was lagged cause the 12 Gawds know that a cleric can join any group.

You were probably his first rejection.

hehe, you were his first, hehe

[lostinjapan]

oh... oh yes... random thought... All girl, caster only (includes clerics, being DIVINE casters), naked... VELAH! Now if they'd just use girl DMs for "feminine sounding voices"...

.... erda rocks!

Did an all cleric (4 of us) run of invaders...very fun...but no one could get a heal.

[Jundak]

Okay...to give credence to a few posts that say a specific group makeup is not needed, I have this experience to share:

I need to get Taldyn up in those levels, so he can rotate through the raids with Jundak...so I see an LFM up for VoN's 1-4, Normal (not too bad, I could use the initial +25%, anyway). Group is made up of two fighter-types, a ranger (who can disarm traps), one sorc, a cleric, and myself. Should be the "perfect all-round" group with all the bases covered, right?

VoN 1: Pretty quick run. No deaths...about what you'd expect.

VoN 2: Had to restart twice, because folks were tossed off by a Beholder's Telekinesis...not necessarily anyone's fault. Otherwise, fairly uneventful (except for my apparent weakness to a Disintegrate to the face).

VoN 3: The nightmare begins...and boy, do I mean nightmare. Anything that could go wrong, went wrong. Zerging fighters that couldn't handle the mobs dragging them back to the party, resulting in near wipes...Trigger happy spellslingers that had no apparent idea how to control the aggro...and (my favorite part) running blindly down corridors with the three named champs, dragging them into full melee before we were through with the last of drow.

There's a lot that I'm leaving out, but I'm so frustrated over that last run, words fail me. VoN 3 was the biggest cluster**** I had been in for a long time. I haven't been in a VoN 3 run with a "lowbie" that lasted beyond 30 to 45 minutes since Velah made her presence known.

When Jundak was level 10.3 (or so) he 2-manned it with a Barbarian in 27 minutes (a little slow, I know...had to bio and get rid of some beer a couple times)! This was a full "ideal" 6-man group, heal-bot included, with levels ranging from 8 to 10...it should have been a piece of cake...especially since everyone said they had a couple of dragon kills under their belt. I left the group after about three hours...I stuck it out as long as I could stand.

There's no such thing as an ideal group. And you most certainly don't have to have a certain set of classes. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either very new to DDO or just plain naive.

[Krow]

I just had a new point pop in my head as I read this.....

Whenever someone creates a party. They usually, as well as the others, want a few runs together at the very least. If 3 drop usually everyone follows. Whenever a group meshes well, people seem to not have to drop unless they absolutely have to, and the others have no prob replacing 1 or 2 due to comfort and assurance with their present partners. If the group is struggling out of the 'norm', it will not last.

I think many want the so called "balance" so they can raise their chances of running more than 1-2 runs/quests with a group that they get to know. If a group has no Cleric, they usually don't last more than a run or two from my exp. Having a good Cleric in the group usually keeps most sticking around...that is unless the Cleric is fed up and drops.

Not denying that Clerics are not manditory........But I think a party leader would like to rely on not having to LFM after every single quest.
Just my observation.

[Wotansdottir]

How easily I am forgotten. :'(

Oh no, Canadia did NOT just shed a tear over Erda getting some lovins!!! Jammy poo poo you know we love you you!!!!


Plus you smell like raisins!

[Arlith]

fairly uneventful (except for my apparent weakness to a Disintegrate to the face).

Wus!

There's no such thing as an ideal group. And you most certainly don't have to have a certain set of classes. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either very new to DDO or just plain naive.

There IS an ideal group. But it has nothing to do with classes, and everything to do with the players. There are groups I have had that it just seemed there was nothing we can't do. And others where 10 additional characters and divine assistance couldn't get us through waterworks.

[Rayzorlew]

Did an all cleric (4 of us) run of invaders...very fun...but no one could get a heal.

LOL