Guide pt III - Nuker

[Aspenor]

Enhancements added.

[Shade]

Argh what a horrible build, and your other one was pretty good.. Hoping this isnt the one you actually play.

How hard is it to understand toughness is a huge gianourmous waste for the class that gets by far the most SP of anyone and also the least feats or any class?

You do not spend 2 feats on a what, sub 10% SP increase?? horrible waste. Youd save that and more by simply picking up extend, a absolutely required feat imo. If you can't get through a quest with the 1800+ SP youll get without toughness, you have to start thinking about rolling a fighter because you have no idea how to play a sorcerer. Its like, omg I cast 1 extra max emp fireball !!! my 2 feats just made a massive difference in thsi quest!!! But now there useless to me as there used up.

Said it before: Never take toughness.

[Aspenor]

Argh what a horrible build, and your other one was pretty good.. Hoping this isnt the one you actually play.

How hard is it to understand toughness is a huge gianourmous waste for the class that gets by far the most SP of anyone and also the least feats or any class?

If you read the previous 2 guides, I have made the exact argument you are making here in regards to those two builds. You'll get NO ARGUMENT from me that mental toughness is a waste of time.

I just got sick and tired of people critiquing each build based on THEIR point of view of what is best for every sorceror. OMGZORZ u dont have MT!?!?! YOU SUCK!! I argued till I was blue in the face (er, fingers).

In response to your first sentence, no I don't actually play any of these builds. Mine is partially different. Each one is adapted to a certain role and playstyle. I purposely WHOLLY adapted this build into the nuking role. Thus the removal of certain feats in favor for the MT feats.

So, the moral of the story is that I agree with you. I just built this guy around the name "nuker." I was sick of hearing "spell focus: enchantment in a generalist build? ***" or "NO MT?!?!?!" or whatever else their sorc differs from my proposed buildz.

I would argue that this character won't need extend, although it is always useful for firewalls, displacement, and haste. It's a question of personal preference.

I would also argue that calling this a "horrible" build is inaccurate. This build is "perfect" for what he is designed for. It's a judgement call whether you want to design a sorceror around one facet (nuking) or blend the different facets of casting (for example, take out the MT and IMT feats and replace with Extend Spell, and <insert desired feat here>)

[Jakylpops]

Extend is a MUST HAVE for any respectable Nuker.

You can still solo half of the high level quests on elite just by hopping around in a Max/Empower/Extended Wall of Fire after grabbing all the agro.

My buff bar looks like this
Jump
Blur
Nightshield
G-Heroism
False Life
Extend
Displacement
Haste

Just go right down the line hitting everything in sequence, then take off running...agro everything...drop Wall of Nuke, add solid fog if things are really crowded...Collect your loot and move on to the next chest.

Extend is primarily for Wall of Fire, Haste, and Displacement. With all the agro a good Nuker draws you will want these spells to last as long as possible...and Extended Solid Fog is still pretty **** good if you ask me.

Spell Penetration feats are like a "Linus Blanket" for people with no twitch skills...Take all 3 spell pen. enhancements and carry a spell pen. VII item IT'S ALL YOU NEED AT THIS POINT!

I still have no problem at all dropping anything in PoP Elite with a Finger of Death. I routinely kill the minibosses with finger and it's only about 1 in 5 times they succeed on a SR check against me.

Max
Empower
Extend
Sf: Necro
GSF: Necro

That's how you make a Necro-Nuker...maybe add heigthen if you're Human, but I don't recommend it unless you're using alot of lower level DC spells.
Most of my spells consist of buffs to keep me alive when I'm generating lots of agro, and I think Heigthen is a waste of SP on Nuke spells, at least under the current Meta-magic system. Your big money spells like Wall and Scorching Ray have no saves anyway...Heightened Web would be nice, but you can live without it since it tends to burn up anyway. I think I took it as my first level 2 spell and then dropped it for Scorching Ray at 11th level.

[Varis]

Grats Aspenor, for a NUKER this is the perfect build.


Jakylpops, why is extend a must have? You can't kill whatever you pulled without it? It's handy that's for sure and not a waste to have but not a MUST have.


Shade, wow... what an argument. Mental toughness is a waste? Because you say so? So the many many sorcerers that use it (including myself) should reroll a fighter becaues it is THAT much of a waste?

Talking trash without backing what you say up is a waste.

What are you gonna take instead? Powerattack? Two weapon fighting? Spell focus (insert your uber all important school here) and a greater spell focus?

If it's evocation then you're wasting your points. You get the +2 to DC with the dragon robe not to mention you don't really need a better DC with nukes.
Necromancy or Enchantment perhaps? LOL good job, now it's a necronuker or perhaps you get to hypnotic pattern right before you fireball.....

Very embarassing Shade...

[Shade]

Maybe read the post one above yours for the one feat a nuker must have instead of toughness instead of flaming yourself.

Number one damage spell = wall of fire.
Best way to increase its overall dmg dealt = duhh.

[Aspenor]

I still maintain this character can do without extend. It's an option, but not necessary.

[Khurse]

OK- another newb question here but can't you respec out feats later at a certain point? I've given Cowl MT, (now at lvl 2 I have 370pts)
I feel I pretty much need all of them to hit with a Niacs.

I had planned to swap MT out for something else later on,- am I mistaken?
Isn't swapping out feats failry easy for higher lvls?

[juniorpfactors]

what i did and am happy with is ...human....

max/mt/ imt@ 3/extend @6/ illusion focus@9/ necromancy@12 and then ditched extend and picked up empowered

by the time you get to 14 extend is really overkill

32 char...with only +1 tome

nuke em and pk/finger/stone machine...... i like the extra mana especially for firewalls when soloing

[Varis]

Maybe read the post one above yours for the one feat a nuker must have instead of toughness instead of flaming yourself.

Number one damage spell = wall of fire.
Best way to increase its overall dmg dealt = duhh.

well if you think that

extend, a absolutely required feat imo.

is THAT necessary then feel free to use it. It's a good feat and handy beyond just longer buffs.

The rest of us will keep on taking out the same group of enemies without an extended firewall, get through the encounter without extended haste and when we get dispelled (again), we won't be upset because we still had 20 mins on the timer...


but they! required! oooh yeah

[wiglin]

I do not use extend on my sorcerer. Haste and displacement are the only two buffs that would really get alot of use out of it.

I do not need extended haste because striding boots are sufficient. I use displacement when I know I am going to get aggro. I do not leave it up the whole time.

Extended firewall..hmm I guess to each their own, but I have not found a battle in this game yet that lasts long enough that I need an extended firewall. Even while soloing most things drop from a maximized firewall without extending it so why bother. The only fights that last more than a few seconds in this game are boss fights, and for those I usually have full sp's anyways.

At level 14 with a magi helmet and 32 cha I am sitting at 1652 sp. I do not have mt or imt and I do not need them. If I run out of sp's its usually because I forgot to turn off maximize before trying to finger something.

[Deragoth]

If I run out of sp's its usually because I forgot to turn off maximize before trying to finger something.

I used to hate that before I dropped FoD for DanceParty.

I have also played with the idea of dropping Extend. I sure like 28 minute buffs, but I find myself shrining a majority of the time before they expire... Ah well, something to keep in the back of my mind.

[Jakylpops]

I have Mental toughness on both my main casters...neither one has IMT though.

One has extend, the other doesn't...

I find soloing to be much, much easier on the one with extend just because it gives a little more room for error, you can even set up your area BEFORE pulling and know that you've still got plenty of time to get the job done.

It's not quite as important while grouping, although it is nice to be able to clear 2 or 3 rooms of PoP on one casting of Haste.

The point is it's going to save you about as much SP as IMT will give you, PLUS it gives you more options to choose from if you need them.

[Varis]

I agree that spell focus, extend and spell penetration in effect can save mana. In some situations as much if not more then MT.
However...
IT IS SITUATIONAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

will extend, focus or spell penetration help you when you are using cone of cold?? Scorching ray? NO! dead weight, worthless, the feats will do NOTHING to help you. Only for certain spells in certain situations will it be of advantage.

Mental toughness DOES work for every situation, regardless what you actually use your mana on, it is ALWAYS a benefit to have more spell points. It allows you to take on any role regardless of your specialization and have that extra backing.


Some say that 1600 spell points is enough, some say that a 30 or 28 charisma is enough. They are not incorrect. A good caster will make due with lower stats and less spell points. That is especially true with spell points. Those that aspire to be as cool as us (wizards) make due with far less.

With that kind of thinking, why take enhancements for mana? They cost a lot and we get very very little to show for it. The feats are worthless according to some of you so those are out too.
Since mana is not important, why use item slots for mana? All a wizardy item will give you is more SP, of which a sorcerer has naturally enough right?

Oh boy, I just realized that Roa has 1881 spell points. Yep, must be doing something wrong. Can't be that investing in a classes strengths is the right thing to do!
Great, now that I think about it, Roa has 34 charisma too... thank god no +3 tomes yet.

I don't have spell penetration enhancements or feats, just a common item. I don't have spell focus either and although I have absolutly no problem landing my spells without them, I am convinced that I made a bad choice.

well perhaps I can just change my enhancements and respec my feats...

oh but wait!

I did not start with a 14 con on my drow... ****... I figured that since drow get a -2 to con and a +2 to dex I should go for 16 dex and 12 con so I would not spend 2 for 1 points on creation...

sigh, guess I gotta reroll...




FIRST comes what makes the class. Charisma, mana and a good spell selection.
AFTER you get that, you may focus on utility, good hp, saves, perhaps some AC and if that is your thing, a specialization (nuker, enchanter, insta killer, etc)
The minute you forget a classes priorities, you weaken it.

Being good in a single school or versus a certain type of enemy is only worth it if your core abilities as a sorcerer don't suffer.
The biggest mistake it to confuse a mediocre performance outside a field of expertiese as a reason to specialize. (ex. unless you are insta kill spec, you can't insta kill anything)


This is why mental toughness is more important even though other feats can perform as good or better in certain situations.

[Nick_RC]

Argh what a horrible build


Said it before: Never take toughness.

Goddamn shade you never cease to surprise me. Always in absolutes. You dont need extend on this build. I play with asp regualrly and we are zergers. Things dont live through our maxed empowered firewalls. Maybe if yours is not as powerful i can understand the need for extend. What feats would you suggest for a direct damage nuker? Max, Empower. With the new enhancements coming in our spells will cost less and that 150 will go further.
Personally i dont have either of the MT feats on my sorc but I have a wiz6 helm. For a nuker who specs purely for dmg....more sp = more damage.


And yeah you have said it before, i seem to remember it was on a fighter never taking regular toughness. That argument didnt hold much weight. How about you say something constructive instead of attacking a post that has helped alot of new sorcs out. Looking forward to a repsonse.

[Allorious]

Oh boy, I just realized that Roa has 1881 spell points. Yep, must be doing something wrong. Can't be that investing in a classes strengths is the right thing to do!
Great, now that I think about it, Roa has 34 charisma too... thank god no +3 tomes yet.

Alorious has the same, as well as 189 HP.

[Allorious]

I have a couple of things to add as I've re-rolled Alorious enough to know the exact nuking build I use and find effective. Swap out empower for extend...its nicer to buff yourself only once. Secondly, with your umd....run the titan to death for the 7 fingered gloves. Its adds so much to your umd and allows for light armor. Alorious wears +5 mith chain shirt and has that +4 shield, I cant ever remember what it is called. Also a +5 protection necklace. Add some +3 barkskin via potion and away you go...no need for displacement after that.

Just my 2 cp

[Varis]

I have a couple of things to add as I've re-rolled Alorious enough to know the exact nuking build I use and find effective. Swap out empower for extend...its nicer to buff yourself only once. Secondly, with your umd....run the titan to death for the 7 fingered gloves. Its adds so much to your umd and allows for light armor. Alorious wears +5 mith chain shirt and has that +4 shield, I cant ever remember what it is called. Also a +5 protection necklace. Add some +3 barkskin via potion and away you go...no need for displacement after that.

Just my 2 cp

you still need displacement. The whole point of a decent AC for a sorc is so they don't hit you 95% of the time. You have it so they only hit you 80% or 70% of the time (talking elite end game stuff here) then COMBINED with displacement you end up with them only hitting you 20 or 30% of the time.

Those few times they DO hit, you have 100% fort so it won't be a crit and stoneskin so you end up taking very little damage.

This is why everything matters. Miss any of this and your health will drop fast if you are at melee with 3 trolls.

The same goes with hit points, saves, immunities. It all matters in the end.

Getting everything up there is hard. That's why you make charisma and mana a priority. AFTER that you worry about all the other stuff.

[Casta]

I would swap out spell pen on the human build and improved mental toughness on the drow for extend, haste and displacement don't last long enough with extend on.

Swap out empower for extend...its nicer to buff yourself only once.

Unless im missing something here the hole point of this build is to hit hard, empower makes you hit harder.

Alorious wears +5 mith chain shirt and has that +4 shield, I cant ever remember what it is called. Also a +5 protection necklace. Add some +3 barkskin via potion and away you go...no need for displacement after that.

Mobs in gianthold have roughly 40 attack, that means without over 40 ac there hitting you every attack anyway, you can get decent ac but without displacement you will still be hit almost every time.

[Shade]

. Things dont live through our maxed empowered firewalls. Maybe if yours is not as powerful i can understand the need for extend. What feats would you suggest for a direct damage nuker? Max, Empower. With the new enhancements coming in our spells will cost less and that 150 will go further.

Really your firewalls kill all these mobs in 1 cast without extend?
Queen Lailat
Stormreaver
Ogres in Madstone elite
4 bosses in Tor
Crucible bosses

And comon dude, theres no need for silly asumptions or flames. Like all my characters, my sorcerer deals the maximum possible damage and does so the most efficient manner. Ofcourse he has maximum possible firewall dmg, max charisma, max SP, nearly all +2 tomes used, etc. I don't play around. I rarely get outkilled, even in melee heavy quests like madstone elite. Under 5% of time ever i've been outkilled, and never by another caster, or really any class except barbarian or fighter.

My opinions are extreme, but thats because thats how I like to play. I prefer things to very smoothly and everyone to do well. I don't group with casters that dont have extend. Many others don't either.

The idea that "I do not need extended haste because striding boots are sufficient. I use displacement when I know I am going to get aggro. I do not leave it up the whole time." just does not fly with me.
DDO is a group game, so to make chracter choices that are selfish annoys me and is the reason I say extend is required.

When I play my melee I expect constant haste, even if there is nothing to fight. I don't care what striding boots you have, I might not be wearing any and im not the one you want to fall behind, im the tank. In many quests I also want constant displacement and other buffs, don't put as high a priority on it but the casters that do understand I like having it gain allot more respect from me.

Problem with that is this:
Caster that can provide that to me without extend: less then 1%
Caster that can do that with extend, over 95%

Personally I like to help out my groups with everyting my character can reasonably provide, as such i'll cast and xtend any buff requested, and often cast them regardless.

So yea, if your goal is to solo always or ignore the request of your allies, by all means. Just don't be surprised when I don't recruit you for my groups.