Do the devs realize the new Extend Spell change hurts paladins and rangers?

[Uska]

While I dont see the usefulness or the space for the feat on my paladin it doesnt mean it isnt a useful tactic there would be no harm in the devs putting in an adjustment or enhancement to make up for this loss to those who do use it.

[BUpcott]

so instead of accusing gpk of having a bad build or me of being a blind follower, ask yourself does another players build have to be changed because Turbine deemed it necessary.

Not once did i accused him of having a bad build. I believe at one point i even said I am not trying to tell people how to play their builds.

Because this does not affect you does not mean you have to support it, yet that seems how many people view things.

you are right I do not have to support it, rather I have chosen to oppose it. And I hope the devs don't even consider giving out shards and any other compensation for this.

[gpk]

And I hope the devs don't even consider giving out shards and any other compensation for this.

State your case, why not? You have come to this algonquin round table that is the DDO development forum and haven't presented any reasonable arguments to support your case. Care to englighten us with some logic?

P.S. Check your quote tag there in your last post

[Snike]

And I hope the devs don't even consider giving out shards and any other compensation for this.

...

[BUpcott]

Actually im "complaining" for all. The lower levels (shoulda put more emphasis on this for you, sorry you couldn't make the mental leap),

Now Now there is no need to attack me personally.

the ones who don't have pop 10s ,spell storing rings, +6 wis helms, 32 point builds w +2/+3 tomes etc etc. But if you can't see the forest for the trees maybe you need to have someone point it out for you.

Let's see don't have a POP X, don't have a ring of spell storing, don't have a +6 WIS item on my rgr or my pal, rgr is drow so clearly not a 32 point, pal is a 32 point but heck I did the grind I earned it, and haven't eaten a +2/+3 Tome on my pal, and ate a dex on my rgr.
Both sit comfortably at 20 wis and I never have a hard time managing SP.

P.S. Checked in game mailbox, no shard.

Check again.

[Serpent]

Not once did i accused him of having a bad build. I believe at one point i even said I am not trying to tell people how to play their builds.

not once did I say you did. don't get so defensive usually people who are in the wrong are defensive

[Cavalier]

I still don't understand how people can build around a spell or a feat or an enhancement when they know full well the the dynamic nature of this game will, in time, cause things to change, and not always to their benefit.

Paladins have been slowly knocked down since day 1; I know, my 28 point build from Day 1 is still my main character today. I was built intelligently without min/max stats. My spell points are around 490 on my build WITHOUT a POP/MAGI item. I used the enhancements at my disposal, and I ensured my WIS would be enough to cover my needs.

I judiciously use buffs and my that I mean I don't fire off Fire, Cold, Electricity, Acid and Sonic resistances as soon as I enter the instance. I plan ahead and cast the needed buffs. Most times, I throw up Fire and Acid, Deathward and Virtue. I use Divine Favor only when entering a tough battle and not while running around the dungeon. I will usually use my mana pool to heal myself and thus allow the cleric to concentrate on the others.

What a concept....a well thought out, balanced character which doesn't rely on any one feat/enhancement/stat/item that can support a party of needed.

The above is explained to show how extended buffs are really not needed in DDO for Rangers (I have a L14 one). Paladins who need extend to save some SP or who are too lazy to check on their timers might have a greater issue with their builds than extend costing them 5 extra points for DF/Virtue and 3 extra points on their resists....

Primary spellcasting classes will come out winners with this new system. Their lower spells will cost more, but their higher spells will cost less. The only class which SHOULD be complaining here is the bard......as they are the ones who are hurt the most.

[Serpent]

you are right I do not have to support it, rather I have chosen to oppose it. And I hope the devs don't even consider giving out shards and any other compensation for this.

Yet you have not given a real reason why you oppose it. It seems you oppose it because gpk does not and you two butted head. Tell me I'm wrong but that how my self and others view it. All you have really said is that it doesn't work for you and no one is telling you it should, yet you are telling others how it should be. That seems retaliatory to me. Then again I have been wrong before.

[Serpent]

I still don't understand how people can build around a spell or a feat or an enhancement when they know full well the the dynamic nature of this game will, in time, cause things to change, and not always to their benefit.

No one said they based it around a feat it is simply part of my character that I don't want to get nefed.

If suddenly all min/maxxers got an extra ability point to balance stats what would you think cause you spread your initial stats around.

True these are not equal to each other but they are an example of a change that most would like and you would hate. How about then I laugh at you and say too bad you did that sucks to be you. Or would you prefer a hey devs modify this system so Cavalier is not hurt by it. Arguing for the Devs and the change is strange to me cause we all play together and anything that changes a toon can affect a party.

[BUpcott]

State your case, why not? You have come to this algonquin round table that is the DDO development forum and haven't presented any reasonable arguments to support your case. Care to englighten us with some logic?

Simply enough you took a feat which is designed for primary casters...you are not a primary caster.

P.S. Check your quote tag there in your last post

quote tag is probably from working with different posts; I know it was serpents post my mistake there.

[Yabba]

5 extra points for DF/Virtue and 3 extra points on their resists.

Is that what this thread is about? LMAO.

[BUpcott]

so instead of accusing gpk of having a bad build or me of being a blind follower, ask yourself does another players build have to be changed because Turbine deemed it necessary.

You didn't accuse me directly, nor did i say you accused me. Simply said I had not.

[gpk]

5 extra points for DF/Virtue and 3 extra points on their resists.

Is that what this thread is about? LMAO.

Oh looks like Yabba has given up. Thx for stopping by.

[gpk]

Simply enough you took a feat which is designed for primary casters...you are not a primary caster.

Really according to whom?
The DDO.com describes it as :
Extend Spell
While this metamagic feat is active, spells with durations last twice as long, but they consume 50% more spell points.
Prerequisite: Able to cast spells

I don't see it stating anywhere its reserved for primary casters do you?

[Gimpster]

I don't see it stating anywhere its reserved for primary casters do you?

From the perspective of the original D&D game, paladins would not take Extend Spell (or any metamagic feat), because their caster level was only 1/2 their class level.

However, DDO changed paladins (and rangers) to have full 1:1 caster level, which makes it attractive for them to use some metamagic.

[BUpcott]

No one said they based it around a feat it is simply part of my character that I don't want to get nefed.

Other than the fact that Extend is a feat.

Yet you have not given a real reason why you oppose it. It seems you oppose it because gpk does not and you two butted head. Tell me I'm wrong but that how my self and others view it. All you have really said is that it doesn't work for you and no one is telling you it should, yet you are telling others how it should be. That seems retaliatory to me. Then again I have been wrong before.

The real reason is how many Paladins and Rangers out they really have extend? *NOTE* An Arcane Archer build doesn't count.
Has nothing to do with head butting. Just discussion points of view.
You are right tho it doesn't work for me, and might for some. But regardless I still believe that extend is a waste of a feat on a paladin or ranger even at lower levels simply because it isn't needed. This change is to help primary casters, deal with it. I am not saying don't be upset. Just don't expect Turbine to hand you a shard to go change a feat you chose. You will still be getting exactly what the feat describes, just not at the cost you want.

[BUpcott]

Really according to whom?
The DDO.com describes it as :
Extend Spell
While this metamagic feat is active, spells with durations last twice as long, but they consume 50% more spell points.
Prerequisite: Able to cast spells

I don't see it stating anywhere its reserved for primary casters do you?

I did not say it was reserved for primary casters; I said that it is designed for a primary caster.

[Cowdenicus]

I think you'll find that's part of the issue raised here by Gpk. Caster's (wiz, sorc and cleric) recently received an increase to their spell point pool and sorcs even get double benefit from items such as Pearl's of Power or Magi items. Paladin's, Ranger's and Bard's received nothing, no increase in mana.. not even a slight one. Now metamagics have been changed as well and one of them which actually happens to be useful for all casting classes adversly affects some casting classes. I mean yeah, its helpful for the main classes which is good.. but the question is.. why discriminate against the others? If some casting classes are getting love, shouldn't there be love for all?

Wiz, sorcs, and clerics got a sp boost because the progression DDO set up for 1-10 was fine but everything past 10 was a mistake, which they fixed. That issue is irrelevant to this discussion.

Metamagics have needed to be changed for a while. The system was broken. There is nothing discriminatory about the changes. Extend will still work great for rangers, pallies and bards for spells leveled 3-6. it breaks even at 2 (as i recall) and a little more expensive for level 1's.

I bet you if you used a +2 wis tome, or a +6 wis item for your pally or ranger, it would alleviate your issue.

BTW I dont see many pallies throwing buffs on party members when entering an instance (I do see rangers do it on occasion) so lets have an honest debate and really call it for what it is, this is about pallies whining about their "uber melee buffs."

In regards to the other posts in this thread, Pallies have not been buffed because at the beginning of the game they were "OVERPOWERED." What a novel idea.

[Cowdenicus]

I did not say it was reserved for primary casters; I said that it is designed for a primary caster.

Shhhh logic kills.

[Cowdenicus]

You might be right. But I confirm my crits almost all of the time without a bloodstone.

Running out of sp's has never been a problem as it rarely happens and for the times I run low, I use Mnemonic Potions. They're a reasonbly common item.

I've never even wished I had extend. I'm even thinking of taking it off my Sorc. The only penalty for that is Haste.

especially since rangers only need the level 3-5 ones.