The Real Reason Raids Are Hard to Join

[HumanJHawkins]

Anyone who thinks that the main reason PUGers are not invited into raids is greed over loot, is missing the point. When you design a raid so that you have to spend 1 or 2 hours just getting to it, then if one person makes a simple mistake it is all over for everyone... Well you get the point...

Who in their right mind would invite unknown randomness into that kind of situation? If you want more people invited into raids, make the penalty for individual error substantially less.

[Laith]

Anyone who thinks that the main reason PUGers are not invited into raids is greed over loot, is missing the point. When you design a raid so that you have to spend 1 or 2 hours just getting to it, then if one person makes a simple mistake it is all over for everyone... Well you get the point...

Who in their right mind would invite unknown randomness into that kind of situation? If you want more people invited into raids, make the penalty for individual error substantially less.

of our 4 raids*, 2 are boss fights that are completed in 20-30 minutes.

*obviously not counting TS

[HumanJHawkins]

of our 4 raids*, 2 are boss fights that are completed in 20-30 minutes.

True... I spouted off while mentally focused on the VON raid.

Another reason that applies more broadly is that there aren't a heck of a lot of people ready for the raids, and a lot of people don't understand the requirements.

I like opening up raids to new people... I think it adds to the experience, although in truth, they are also often a liability. But for every PUG I have ever seen actually come along, there are 2 or 3 that join group and then turn out to not be ready. This is a minor annoyance, though I suspect it is another reason many groups will not invite PUGers.

I mean seriously... If you want to allow casual gamers to join RAIDs, why would you make them have to run (for example) The Crucible, Madstone Crater, and POP 15+ times each before they can join.

I have a toon that is reaver ready, and that is sweet fun to do. But even though I play a lot now this is annoying because I would also like to bring my other toons through it. And I would like to run the desert stuff once in a while instead of just Gianthold all the time so I can get them ready.

I didn't mean to turn this into a complaint... I am just trying to point out that there are a lot of reasons people are not freely invited to raids, and loot is probably at the bottom of the list.

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[Impaqt]

If your not in a Guild.. Or your guild is too small to effectively raid, you need to at least make some friends in guilds....

Taking a pug or 2 on a raid isnt a big deal.. Its when you get 8-12 people thrown together that either have no idea what to do.. Or worse yet.. ALl have their own idea of what exactly needs to be done is where the trouble starts.

[sigtrent]

Just depends on what your attitude is.

Sometimes I just want to farm the loot or get the xp of favor and having folks mess it up is frustrating.

Other times I just want to hang out with folks and enjoy playing the game, and making mistakes or failing a quest is no big deal. Just got to sit back, relax and wantch folks explore and discover, or try your best to help them through the hard spots.

So I like both tight guild runs and sloppy pug action. It just depends on my mood and goals for the night.

[Locathus]

I have led PUG groups through all of the Raids except the Reaver (and don't plan to bother with that one). It can be done if the leader is patient and good at explaining things, and if everyone follows directions. If there are things that one person can do to mess things up (and there are a couple) then the leader needs to make those things clear ahead of time.

Failed PUG Raids usually have more to do with who is running the show than who is running along. Making the Raid easier doesn't change that.

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[Ekental]

When you design a raid so that you have to spend 1 or 2 hours just getting to it, then if one person makes a simple mistake it is all over for everyone... Well you get the point...

Who in their right mind would invite unknown randomness into that kind of situation? If you want more people invited into raids, make the penalty for individual error substantially less.

Ever played WoW? EQ?
Yeah.. you think 1-2 hrs is bad, wait until you need to download a mod pack just to run the thing, then spend the next 8 hrs running the raid, during which time you get to sit around until your team needs to do their part, which in turn needs to coincide with another team's job with an error margin of seconds, after which you need to be on standby again.
Lets not get into what you needed to do as pre-reqs... again, for the nth time.

Clearly, there are far more people who feel compelled to do a raid like the above. Whether or not they like it is completely irrelevant.