New VON strategies needed now

[binnsr]

From the wording of the WDA post, and how I understand the new AI engine, they could just make the island exits 'danger areas' for the mobs -- like how they won't go stand in lava anymore (at least in some quests).
Then, the mobs would be following velah's suggestion (or threat if you like that terminology better) that they stay at their guard posts.

At that point, you just give your tank a fearsome robe and tell him to just ignore the mobs..

[Ghoste]

I'm glad at least a couple people saw the same point as I did in reading the OP. I thought at first as I was reading all the responses that I had completely misunderstood the part about them no longer leaving the islands.

RANGED!!!

I'm a little baffled by all the posts suggesting the need to come up with some great cc plans. From what I see, the only need for anybody to ever set foot on any of those islands is for a single person to rush past one to get a good shot at 2nd base.

All this planning how to cc everything on the islands when Velah is already doing that for us sounds like making things a lot harder for yourselves.

[Blazer]

From what I see, the only need for anybody to ever set foot on any of those islands is for a single person to rush past one to get a good shot at 2nd base.

Actually, you won't even need to do this. I've done this method in guild with 2 rangers. If one moves about 1/2way to 1st base, the other 1/2way to 3rd, they can both target 2nd base, and their closer base, too (obviously). Thing is, this method works fastest/best with rangers (Manyshot, Bow Strength) and using Construct Bane bows. Not saying they can't be ranged by anyone, but it works fastest with Rangers.

[GlitterKill]

I've been using my bard to fascinate the bases where they stand and it works great. Quite a bit faster than all the pulling. The only trick is that once you fascinate them you have like 5 minuted to drop the pillars and kill the dragon before the fascinates begin to fade. Still... that should be enough time.

[Mercules]

All this planning how to cc everything on the islands when Velah is already doing that for us sounds like making things a lot harder for yourselves.

Who is planning on CCing everything on the islands? I was responding to the person who was saying something about how is a single character going to solo those mobs long enough for another character to get across the bridge. I pointed out the obvious way to do that should they wish to go that route.

[Gimpster]

you don't want people pulling, make it a VIABLE option for them to kill the guardians without respawn and/or without having bridge pieces destroyed.

There are PLENTY of viable methods, and always have been. But for the first 8+ months after VON6's release nobody ever tried them, because when you already have a method which works easily, why take the risk of failing the raid just to experiment and find a new technique? Especially when the new technique will probably require more player skill than simply 1 runner and one rezzer?

[Rafal]

For me the biggest problem when you fail is the need to repeat VoN 5, take too much time for my taste and it's hardly a challenge so just a boring grind to try something for a couple of minutes and grind again to try again.

[binnsr]

For me the biggest problem when you fail is the need to repeat VoN 5, take too much time for my taste and it's hardly a challenge so just a boring grind to try something for a couple of minutes and grind again to try again.

At least it's not like the DQ where you get penalized for successfully completing it by having to reflag ... oh wait.. nvm..

[Ghoste]

Who is planning on CCing everything on the islands? I was responding to the person who was saying something about how is a single character going to solo those mobs long enough for another character to get across the bridge. I pointed out the obvious way to do that should they wish to go that route.

Who you ask?
Posts #: 6, 7, 8, 9, 24, 25, 27, 29, 32, 33, 34, and 35 all have specific suggestions involving cc spells or abilities to accomplish this.

Question asked, question answered.

Your post #32 does not, as you said, say you will do this yourself but is still lays out a cc specific approach.

If someone were to say, "ok how are we going to cc the mobs on the islands to take out the pillars?" I wouldnt lay out a method for them, I would just say "we dont; Velah now does that for us."

[sigtrent]

It really depends on the implimentation of it.

The pull and die thing was pretty easy and pretty reliable and didn't really require any special kinds of characters beyond someone who can res. Ranging the pillars requires someone who can do good damage with ranged weapons. Granted that isn't too hard but not many folks are set up for that. CCing is certainly workabble but it takes more knowledge and coordination by the team. So folks take the fairly logical path of getting the monsters away from the pillars before destroying them.

What would shut down the whole buisness is if the monsters simply went back to thier islands. Now if they just make them stay on the islands... that will simple lead to a new strategy of.. deal with them where they can't and won't come attack you. Less cheezy, but far easier than the bases strategy.

What I think would make the most sense is if Velah were in there and summoning monsters as folks attacked the pillars, summoning the monster next to the attacker, wherever they may be. Perhaps she has a maximum number that can be in play at a given moment. <shrug>

Any which way, folks will find clever ways to beat it, that is the whole point of playing a "game".

[Draclaud]

From Europe:
"NEW- Velah has informed the guardians of the islands within the Plane of Night that if they leave the areas they are supposed to be protecting, she will eat them."

That should make things a bit more interesting.

*start sarcasm* Making something more difficult, while at the same time taking away the incentive to do it is ALWAYS a recipe for success! *end sarcasm*

[Gimpster]

*start sarcasm* Making something more difficult, while at the same time taking away the incentive to do it is ALWAYS a recipe for success! *end sarcasm*

They did not take away the incentive.

You are referring, of course, to the fact that raid loots will only drop 1/6th chance per player, instead of 2 per group. But your interpretation is backwards: that change INCREASES the incentive to complete VON6, because melee characters will need to finish it more times before they will get the super-weapon (at which point they no longer have the incentive to go)

[JelloMold]

*start sarcasm* Making something more difficult, while at the same time taking away the incentive to do it is ALWAYS a recipe for success! *end sarcasm*

I totally disagree. Making this more difficult has created a reason to do the raid. NOW, it is worthwhile. Any tool can pull and be killed. This sounds like there might be some teamwork required. But that is what all the people who 2 man the dragon hate isn't it? Oh, well. Adapt or not, your choice.

[Arnya]

Couple of things we tried last nerf:

1 - Ranging all 3 pillars from the safe spot works with 2-3 rangers with silver longbows and manyshot

2 - When there are 2 people on the same island Velah starts spitting fireballs. You can't shelter from these behind the rocks on the island.

3 - If you drop a firewall just before first base Velah will destroy the part of the bridge with the FW on it. This helps contain the agro (probably useless now they may not leave the island)

4 - Send fighters with fearsome armour to the islands. If they have decent AC and a few pots they will be fine.

[Draclaud]

They did not take away the incentive.

You are referring, of course, to the fact that raid loots will only drop 1/6th chance per player, instead of 2 per group. But your interpretation is backwards: that change INCREASES the incentive to complete VON6, because melee characters will need to finish it more times before they will get the super-weapon (at which point they no longer have the incentive to go)

That was exactly what I was reffering to. On the effort vs reward scale I can't see running VON 6 over and over again for the proposed odds that will be implemented.

NOW-5% Chance that SOS will drop in the box (1 in 20)

In the future(heaven forbid...)-1/6 chance to get anything, and a 1 in 20 chance that will be your said SOS, so unless my math is wrong, which is a distinct probability (by no means a math major) is .83% so if you're lucky you'll get your SOS after 100 runs....Gee I think I'll just go run something else...

Not trying to hijack the post, plenty of other posts that are discussing this. Sorry.

[ccheath776]

Take away the wooden bridges so more than one can stand on them.

There are many problems this raises. None are easy or sane.

Devs have too much ego to be writing the adventures like they do. They dont understand that quests are supposed to be beatable nobody likes impossible quests. Bahh im through talking about this. Lemme tryit first and see.

[Dragonhyde]

Does it actually say that the mobs cannot leave the island? I took it to mean that you could not just dump them by /death and have them stay there. Just seems that they will go back to their island once the target of their aggro is gone or out of range.

[DoctorWhofan]

Regadless, this sis the time to figure it out. Send some salty lvl 14's to try it out and have it ironed out some possiblitiies and only lower lebvel spells. Then when the 5.0 comes out try them out. Won't be as accurate as using lvl 10's but what do 14's got to lose?? It should give you a ball park idea of what to do.

Just a suggestion, instead of running around and saying: "THe sky is Falling!"

[dragonofsteel2]

I totally disagree. Making this more difficult has created a reason to do the raid. NOW, it is worthwhile. Any tool can pull and be killed. This sounds like there might be some teamwork required. But that is what all the people who 2 man the dragon hate isn't it? Oh, well. Adapt or not, your choice.

Lol just going get ranged now simple easy no chances taken. This freaking old raid stop worrying about making them harder and make new fun raids and learn from your mistakes in the past. This is one the things I hate about tribune the must they want to revamp old raids which takes the good players one day to figure how to pawn again and hurts the casual players. The only reason range was not being use they made it so could not range them for a bit of time. Trust me this strategy been out there long time was use before the great wise tribune said that is to easy. Want to make raiding mean something make the raid items better then drops in pop and other quest. The raid loot as is stands is just little better then normal drops if you lget lucky and get the one or two items.

[Harbinder]

Just send one runner past all three bases, and back to the pitcher's mound. He gets all their aggro, but they stay at their bases.

Pillar killers can just waltz right in...