THE BEST DD - with comparisons to other builds to prove it

[bandyman1]

what weapon? - also stuff like good hope will have different effects on dps for each.

It will give +2 total damage and to-hit across the board, regardless of weapon. Here's why you don't count it. You can't always depend on having a bard in party, and if he buffs you, he can also buff the barb. You could chug a pot, but so could the barb, ect., ect.

So you are back at square one.

The same goes for any other group buff.


Dude, I'm tired of this argument. You haven't proved your point to anyone with half a brain cell. You have an impressive DPS build. That would've gathered you respect here. Then you ruined it by making a half-assed claim that's it will out-damage anything in the melee game, and have argued it in the face of all logic to the contrary. You've lost the respect of anyone here with a working knowledge of the game. You cannot match a barb's DPS with that build.

Every counter you've offered has been picked apart. The original damage numbers you posted in your *proof*, had the barb using additions that he can depend on every swing. By comparison, you gave yourself modifiers that are situational, and cannot be relied upon. Then you don't wanna bring crits into the equation, when the barbarian will have the same crit range with a greataxe ( that's right, sans raid loot that you are depending on ), but is doing a hell of alot more damage than your build.

In closing; Impressive build. Impressive DPS. But it is not what it is billed to be.

[Shroonith]

ur not too bright are you son? if i attack 7 times and i get +2 damage it WILL do something different than you attacking 4 times with +2 damage. Similarly, strength bonuses are 8/7 times as effective for a barbarian. also you have not shown me any visible refutation for anything. would you like to do this without raid loot? i can run the numbers. but i keep asking you to present a barb for me to compare. you are clearly to SCARED to post one.

[bandyman1]

ur not too bright are you son? if i attack 7 times and i get +2 damage it WILL do something different than you attacking 4 times with +2 damage. Similarly, strength bonuses are 8/7 times as effective for a barbarian. also you have not shown me any visible refutation for anything. would you like to do this without raid loot? i can run the numbers. but i keep asking you to present a barb for me to compare. you are clearly to SCARED to post one.

Actually, I'm very intelligent, and I sure as hell ain't ( yep I'm from TN and I said it ) your son. It seems to be you that doesn't understand that YOU CANNOT USE SITUATIONAL BUFFS OR EFFECTS WHEN COMPARING DPS. I never said it wouldn't make a difference based on your number of attacks, I pointed out why you DON'T count it. Are you blind???

what weapon? - also stuff like good hope will have different effects on dps for each.

That is what you said. You WEREN'T talking about number of attacks, you were basing it off weapon type, WHERE IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. Or, you really need to think about what you are writing, because if that's what you were talking about, your sentence doesn't support the idea at all.

I don't HAVE to post a build. A build is already posted that YOU used in YOUR comparison already. And YOUR build WILL NOT out-DPS it. And in all honesty, the " Oh, you're too scared " comment goes a long way in identifying your maturity level.

Do you think you are the first Str-based, TWFing drow build out there? Good God man, have you never taken a look at the class forums before you decided to post your " bestest ever " build? Guess what? None of them have made the claim you have, BECAUSE IT'S A FALSE STATEMENT.

Every argument you have offered in defense of your bold point on this thread has been picked apart....and you are STILL arguing. I have discussions with my 6 year-old daughter in which she offers more logical counter-points than you have.

When you've " ran the numbers ", you keep insisting that you get 7 attacks for the barbarian's 4. It's already been pointed out to you that that information is false. I wish it worked that way. I really do. I have a maxed-out TWFer. Check my sig. You don't get 7 attacks in the time it takes the barb to get 4. That's been pointed out, and griped to the Devs about, since last year. It should via the descriptions of the feats, and PnP rules, but it doesn't. You also keep insisting that you get your BS bonus on every attack. Been shot down on that one too, but you still keep adding it. The damage bonus you used for the barb was non-situational. Yours was not. Pointed out, and you get ****ed. It was also generated using a standard +5 weapon. You used one of the most sought after weapons in the game for a finesse TWFer.

Say what you want man, if it wasn't for the knock on my intelligence, I wouldn't have bothered to even post again. You have an impressive TWFer. It falls short of your claim. Anyone with a working knowledge of the game who bothers to read this thread can see that. That's all that needs to be said.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

This will probably upset your Drow aspirations, but the Maldini Barbarian DPS build is better than yours in my opinion. Unlike you, I wont bother "running the numbers" because there's no need to. I have a level 14 Maldini build that will send your boy to school....

Have you wondered WHY many people like the Maldini builds? Because they make good sense. They kick butt.

I like to see different builds posted, but as soon as you start claiming yours is the best you will be put in your place. Just my 2 plat.

[Shroonith]

thats right u wont run the numbers because 1, your too stupid, and 2, the numbers show my build out dps's him. claiming theres no need to run the numbers is arguing using rhetoric, not logic. thats all everyone on this forum has done, its quite sad to see how opposed to mathematics everyone is in this forum. this game is a series of algorithms. thats all it is, hence the best way to compare is to use math. when someone posts a response that has even a semblance of evidence i will retract my claim, until then the numbers are in my favor.

[Riorik]

Shoonith,

My suggestion is, run the numbers yourself and you'll see.

Damage from Criticals is probably the largest component of any attack chain - and getting those bonuses to doing damage is huge when they're doubled or perferably tripled. Barbarians end up winning because when they're in DPS mode, they're running around with a 40-50 strength - another +5-10 damage (yes I know it won't quite be 5-10) which translates to 15-30 extra every 3 swings - and this doesn't include Barbarian Power Attack (almost forgot)

Also - and I think you missed this, the length of time it takes to do a full 7 attack chain doing TWF is significantly longer than it takes to do a 4 attack chain with a single weapon. Yes, this shouldn't be the case, but it is. I totally forget the thread where this was shown, explained and documented - but it's very easy for you to check yourself if you took the time.

I would, however, argue that 200+ damage per swing is BS - unless that statement is presented as the typical damage including criticals - and with the crit range boosts, only approximately 1/3rd of your hits are going to be criticals - but that does probably mean 300+/attack chain is a conservative number - I could see 350-400 per 4 attack chain.

[bandyman1]

thats right u wont run the numbers because 1, your too stupid, and 2, the numbers show my build out dps's him. claiming theres no need to run the numbers is arguing using rhetoric, not logic. thats all everyone on this forum has done, its quite sad to see how opposed to mathematics everyone is in this forum. this game is a series of algorithms. thats all it is, hence the best way to compare is to use math. when someone posts a response that has even a semblance of evidence i will retract my claim, until then the numbers are in my favor.

No, the numbers are not in your favor. The numbers you posted, that don't include crits and give you situational modifiers on every swing ( that you won't get ) while the barb has none, and 7 attacks to the barbs 4 ( which you don't get BTW ), and forget that glancing blows can also strike your target ( not just other creatures in the vicinity ) on the first and fourth swing of the attack chain, are in your favor.

[Aspenor]

This build will never outdamage a properly built and equipped barbarian. That is all.

[sigtrent]

You know gents, there is a DDO DPS calculator out there on the net, it works fairly well (and you can fudge things when needed to asjust for most changes). Any of you could just plug it all in and come up wtih some hard "evidence".

You'd have to ignore attack time differences, yes the animations vary somewhat but its not a huge difference.. and were talking builds here, so its really just theoretical anyway. In play you get so many variables its pointless to really try and do a direct compare.

[Beorn_The_Bear]

Geeeees, are you still debating that DPS build? Go play and have some fun for crying out loud.

[Katianara]

You guys are sure getting worked up by this Shroonith guy. He can't even type a coherent sentence.

u ur your lolzo ur ur ur lolzzzz

[chewwook]

Does this lean even more in the favor of the barbs when they have their raging maxed crit ranges? With the decent + burst weapons now and what will come when they raise the cap, i wouldn't think anything could keep up with those numbers when you're getting crits so often.

[bandyman1]

Does this lean even more in the favor of the barbs when they have their raging maxed crit ranges? With the decent + burst weapons now and what will come when they raise the cap, i wouldn't think anything could keep up with those numbers when you're getting crits so often.

Oh no bro. Shroonith wants to "forget about crits" in his comparison of DPS where the numbers are " in his favor ". And even though not a single person who has posted in this thread has agreed with him in his delusion, it's because we are all " too stupid " to see that he is right, and we are all wrong.

It's all right Shroon, I anwsered him for ya.....just go back to playing that game that you are playing by yourself, where noone gets crits, deception procs on every hit, and you get a full 7 swing attack sequence in the time it takes a barbarian to get 4 .

[Snike]

This build is Stooopid.

Had to add this.

[Grenfell]

Forget the Maldini SOS Barbarian, which is one of the absolute top of the DPS builds.

Can this thing really outdamage a proper THF Fighter build? Or a Dwarf Strength Ranger build?

Not sure I'm seeing it atm...

/gren

[Hence]

The OP seems to be missing some significant enhancements to his build. For one, Barbarian Crit Enhancement is absurdly beasty. Secondly, if you wanted to even TRY and argue your TWF build is better... you should have picked up Fighter's Haste Boost IV.

The only way a fighter can compare to a barbarian is if he has the Haste boost enhancement that allows him to swing faster, therefore negating some of the Barbarians Critical Enhancement.

7 attacks with fighters haste boost IV MAY come close to a Barbarian, unless of course that Barbarian has a Sword of Shadows with a 13-20 crit range. Even a poorly built barbarian with a SoS and Critical enhancement 2 will outdamage anyone but a properly built Barbarian with a SoS.

[XFracture]

See the sig, 'nuff said.

[Borror0]

See the sig, 'nuff said.

Why post only to say this? Just stay away from the Classes forum if it is only to say every build was to be found one day.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

thats right u wont run the numbers because 1, your too stupid, and 2, the numbers show my build out dps's him. claiming theres no need to run the numbers is arguing using rhetoric, not logic. thats all everyone on this forum has done, its quite sad to see how opposed to mathematics everyone is in this forum. this game is a series of algorithms. thats all it is, hence the best way to compare is to use math. when someone posts a response that has even a semblance of evidence i will retract my claim, until then the numbers are in my favor.

You are lucky I just SAW your response today. I CAN use "MATH" but I refuse to waste my time educating you about DPS, besides others here have tried to no avail. As all others have said on here, you cant out DPS Maldini's fighter or barb build. Your claim is outrageous and plain wrong. My dwarven fighter (dwarven variant of Maldinis fighter build) uses 23 different weapon types including 2 handers to devastating effect. My ac is higher and my DPS is much higher... oh and I have 398 hit points. What were your hit points again Swoosh (or whatever ya name is Jr...) You would make for a great stone to sharpen my weapons on though!

[Borror0]

You are lucky I just SAW your response today. I CAN use "MATH" but I refuse to waste my time educating you about DPS, besides others here have tried to no avail.

I almost want to use math to show Shroonith he's wrong, but that'd be a waste of time. TWF is cool, but you'll never out-damage a Barbarian.