Dorf str based TFW build?

[Blind_Skwerl]

I remember seeing a build for a dual wield, strength based, dwarf pure ranger shortly before the forum crash. Don't remember if it was a maldini, gol, etc. Just trying to eliminate options before starting a new 32 pointer.

[Blazer]

Gol's build I believe. However, I don't think he was planning on reposting it after the forum wipe.

[Blind_Skwerl]

been playing around with the builder. what kind of dex would be needed to max out a kundark delving suit with the dwarven armor enhancements?

[sigtrent]

Well, kunderac is +6 max I believe and I think Dwarf AM goes to 2 so thats +8 or 26 dex.

So +6 item, +3 from ranger.. so starting 12-17 depending on level ups and tome avilability. I'd probably go for 14 if I was ambitions or 16 if I was feeling conservative.

[Blind_Skwerl]

will have a +1 dex tome available, as well as a +5 or +6 item. Dwarf armor mastery goes to 3 according to the builder. was planning on level ups going into str.

[Blind_Skwerl]

Also wondering...

Is there a major disadvantage to taking a level of fighter vs. pure ranger? wouldn't mind the heavy armor/tower shield availability, as well as the extra feat.

[Blind_Skwerl]

actually saw something about taking two levels of fighter to get the +1 fighters strength. and of course the profficencies, feats, etc. Anyone care to weigh in on this? What does going 12 ranger instead of 14 ranger loose?

[Mad_Bombardier]

Also wondering...

Is there a major disadvantage to taking a level of fighter vs. pure ranger? wouldn't mind the heavy armor/tower shield availability, as well as the extra feat.

Can't use Evasion in Heavy Armor, so not really a consideration. But, Tower Shields are nice if you frequently armor up and run past enemies in quests. Other than that, the only real reason to go higher than 12Ranger is Freedom of Movement @ 14, and the possibility of a new TWF feat at level 15. But people are just predicting on the last one.

A Fighter level at level 8 grants earliest access to ImpCrit and a bunch of nice level 1 enhancements. Another Fighter level at 14 grants +1 STR enhancement (if needed for your build) and another feat.

Also, +2 Fort saves, -1 Reflex saves, +4 HP compared to 14Ranger.

[Fennario]

Well, kunderac is +6 max I believe and I think Dwarf AM goes to 2 so thats +8 or 26 dex.

So +6 item, +3 from ranger.. so starting 12-17 depending on level ups and tome avilability. I'd probably go for 14 if I was ambitions or 16 if I was feeling conservative.

I thought it went up to Dwarven Armor Mastery III, which increases the dex bonus by +3.

[Blind_Skwerl]

it does go to 3. I have also kind of backed away from attempting to maximize this because it would make me drop my con down several points. I'd rather have the hitpoints in the endgame I think.

[QuantumFX]

Trade offs for taking 12 Ranger/2 Fighter vs. 14 Ranger. Please note that this is a simple comparison done for the benefit of the OP. It's not about arguing what's better. We don't need a point by point rebuttal (though if I've missed anything please add to it!)

General: Offsets ranger abilities if picked up at lower levels. (Which can be a good thing if you start with a low WIS score.)

BAB: No difference

Hit Points: +4 HP for taking the fighter levels.

Saves: +2 Fort, -1 Reflex

Spells: Lose 28 SP, lose 1 1st level spell, cannot cast 4th level spells. (Including Freedom of Movement)

Skills: Lose 8 skill points, Intimidate becomes a class skill

Feats:
- Medium and heavy armor prof. (Useful until ranger level 9 where it inhibits evasion feat.)
- Tower Shield Prof. (Can be useful if you're dealing with a lower dex ranger. Mithril Tower shield is still highly recommended.)
- 2 bonus fighter feats. Player should consider when as well as why to pick up fighter levels for feats. (ex. Can be used to prep for SotR at low levels or to purchase Improved Crit at high levels.)

Enhancements:
- Lose access to extra ranger action boost 2
- Gain access to fighter lvl 1 and 2 boosts including rank 1 action boosts, Fighters STR 1, Strategy 1 (Which stacks with dorf Strategy), and Fighters Toughness 1


A couple long term notes:
Taking fighter levels up to 12 Ranger/8 Fighter could be a great split. If we ever see Double weapons you'll be in a prime position to start using Dwarven Urgoshes. It also gives you access to Fighters STR 2 (as well as other rank 2 fighter enhancements.). Imp weapon focus, weapon specialization. Basically you'll want to weigh in at each level cap increase to see what you want to do.

A note that's often overlooked with dwarven rangers:
2 words: Dwarven Thrower!

[Elleron]

If we are talking dual wield, then taking 2 levels of fighter to get tower shields seems kinda of silly. If you need it for running through quests, just use barkskin with a regular shield would amount to the same thing or -1 to ac.

P.s if your a dwarf, no need to run, just walk through with your 300+ hitpoints and keep your head high.

[Blind_Skwerl]

Just thinking of the old "shieldblock wall in the doorway" routine. Doing 12 ranger / 2 fighter btw.

[Bombalo]

To shield block you really dont need a shield. Your bodies presence there will be enough to interfear with the monster pathing. Also make sure when considering base dex make sure you put it up around 15 because you will need 17 to get improved twf at level 6 so if your taking a tome and using a level up for dex at four the lowest you wanna start at is 15 or put off improved twf till 9 but then you give up improved crit or greater twf.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

To shield block you really dont need a shield. Your bodies presence there will be enough to interfear with the monster pathing.

Correct, for the most part. But if you can count on the party to be able to kill things over your shoulder, then you might as well block while you are standing there.

Also make sure when considering base dex make sure you put it up around 15 because you will need 17 to get improved twf at level 6 so if your taking a tome and using a level up for dex at four the lowest you wanna start at is 15 or put off improved twf till 9 but then you give up improved crit or greater twf.

Incorrect, if you are doing primarily ranger levels. Rangers(like all other classes in ddo) get their class feats for free, without having to worry about stat requirements. So any class feat which is automatically granted by leveling in a certain class, will be given whether or not you have the required stat.
So, for example...
A ranger will not need point blank shot to qualify for multishot.
A ranger will not need a dex score at all to qualify for any twf feat.(Although I think you'd have to be mental to build one without some kind of dex score, but that's another discussion entirely)
Etc, etc, etc...

Responses in red...

[Blind_Skwerl]

Responses in red...

hehe beat me to it. The +5 mith tower will be just to add a couple points of ac when doing the wall thing, that's all.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

hehe beat me to it. The +5 mith tower will be just to add a couple points of ac when doing the wall thing, that's all.

And (actually more important to me than the ac) it will add more points on damage reduction than a regular shield.