Some insight - Drow, 32 point characters, and newbies

[XFracture]

The reason Drow are overpowered in DDO is because they don't have many of the abilities that give them a +2 level adjustment in D&D.

Am I reading that right?

[Ithrani]

Am I reading that right?

I do not know what this guy is talking about at all this whole post. And Rikori2 yeah I am a touch annoyed with you, your acting high and mighty like you know a whole lot about both PnP and DDO. Yet have shown little actual knowledge and made silly statements to start with, such as Elves becoming Drows when you hit 400 favor, or that favor is a deterrent. Your statements are misplaced and your OP is full of nonsensical opinion that you cannot back up with fact. And if you think that my post has run on sentence try looking up some grammar. My punctuation is fine.

[Luthen]

To begin, I just want to describe my experiences with DDO. I initially saw it from a friend in the dorms who was playing the beta. He said it was ok, but was more focused on adventuring and dungeon crawling than WoW. His words, not mine.
Later, during a fit of boredom during summer of '06, some friends (2 others), myself, and my sister (17 at the time) decided to all try it out. We ended up leveling up two sets of characters to level 3. However, we never got past that point, because of the perceived "grind" we all felt, after all, we weren't getting more XP, but the amount required to level was almost double. We also felt it lacked crucial MMO elements. Particularly my sister, who had never played D&D, was frustrated with the game and choosing feats and such. **I personally love this aspect of the game - but some "rigid leveling" options would probably be good for those who don't. ** We decided we were going to buy the game, after all, I was excited about making a Drow caster, the extra SP would be worth making a caster, who at the time, I didn't enjoy. However, Drow required 400 faction to unlock. **None of us ended up buying the game.**

A year later, during a similar fit of boredom, three of us (my sister declined to participate this time around) picked up DDO again. This time, being much more savvy, we leveled our characters to 6, and unlocked Drow during our free trial. I was also under the impression the level cap had been raised to 20. We all liked the AH. One of my friends decided not to buy, he's very much into solo-ing and just killing monsters in a camp, he's back with WoW. The other two of us bought. I am now playing my Drow and would like to roll a couple other characters. However, the 32 points characters are just too tempting, I haven't been able to bring myself to make a "gimped" character. (Argue all you want, I've played too much D&D to get over it.)

This next part is merely opinion...
I'd say that DDO definately lacks a good newbie experience. As soon as a character leaves the wayward lobster, they immediately are confronted with insufficient help. If Turbine wants DDO to attract more people, they need to stream line the first 5 levels, and make "auto choice" leveling options.

Next, I think the "unlocking characters" bit is a huge deterrent for many players. If it was somehow retroactive (for Drow, maybe you could play an Elf, and once Drow were unlocked, you could find out your "true heritage" and for 32 point characters, they could easily call up your original stats and allow you to distribute 4 more points under the same guidelines.) Finally, the "unlockables" need to work across all servers. However, a better option would be **get rid of the unlockables entirely** Give some other reward for high factions that are character specific. Here's a good example (200 faction, 1 free feat respec, 500 faction +2 free skill points, 1000 faction +1 stat point, 1500 faction +1 Action Point, 2000 faction 1 free feat, 2500 faction +10 hp, 3000 faction +10 faction, etc. etc.) See how easy it was for me to come up with a much fairer/desirable reward system?

Finally, quests need to be a) unlocked on all difficulties (barring certain "raid" dungeons perhaps) b) balanced c) make the optional stuff worthwhile. If you look at LFG, 95% of the groups are going to cherry picked xp quests or raids. CO6, Delaria's, The Kobold's new ring leader, and West are all prime examples. The reason all quests should be unlocked on all difficulties is because, some quests are naturally going to be a more "desirable" xp rate. However, if they are unlocked on all difficulties, the faction combined with the +50% xp from elite will make them worth doing *at least once* at the correct level range. Optional stuff should be worth something more like 10-25% of the quest's total xp. For example, if a quest has 3000 xp reward, and a short optional quest, it should be worth 300 xp, and if it is a long optional quest, it should be worth 850 xp.

Do you know how all these long term high level players discovered the fast way to get levels up, and favor, and items? We played the game. For more then just a few days. They stuck around long enough to get to know people and eventually they got new friends and eventually they made guilds and eventually they adapted and overcame. Come back when you have more expierience under your belt young grasshoppah.

Edit: Some newer players these days really bug me. It seems they want things served on a silver plater at times. Now I grant you that many of us old timers want what we want how we want it but then again we've been around since Beta or Headstart and, frankly, we've earned our right to gripe or ask for things. You newer players have no idea how much this game has changed for the better, for the most part, since the early days. Sure you may have tried it for a couple days way back when but that's hardly giving it a fair shot. So quit trying to change things before you have a full grasp of what the game offers. Come back in a couple months when you've gotten to level 10+ and maby 1750 favor.

[Hvymetal]

Do you know how all these long term high level players discovered the fast way to get levels up, and favor, and items? We played the game. For more then just a few days. They stuck around long enough to get to know people and eventually they got new friends and eventually they made guilds and eventually they adapted and overcame. Come back when you have more expierience under your belt young grasshoppah.

Edit: Some newer players these days really bug me. It seems they want things served on a silver plater at times. Now I grant you that many of us old timers want what we want how we want it but then again we've been around since Beta or Headstart and, frankly, we've earned our right to gripe or ask for things. You newer players have no idea how much this game has changed for the better, for the most part, since the early days. Sure you may have tried it for a couple days way back when but that's hardly giving it a fair shot. So quit trying to change things before you have a full grasp of what the game offers. Come back in a couple months when you've gotten to level 10+ and maby 1750 favor.

QFT

[rikori2]

Am I reading that right?

Sorry, I corrected it.

I do not know what this guy is talking about at all this whole post. And Rikori2 yeah I am a touch annoyed with you, your acting high and mighty like you know a whole lot about both PnP and DDO. Yet have shown little actual knowledge and made silly statements to start with, such as Elves becoming Drows when you hit 400 favor, or that favor is a deterrent. Your statements are misplaced and your OP is full of nonsensical opinion that you cannot back up with fact. And if you think that my post has run on sentence try looking up some grammar. My punctuation is fine.

I'm not saying all Elves become Drow when they hit 400 favor, I'm saying that it could be used as an alternative method of letting people become Drow. Favor is a deterrent for many people who are considering to buy this game. Obviously, the people who are already paying to play this game don't think it is a deterrent (if they thought that, they wouldn't be paying.) Also, I like that your statement about grammar starts with a conjuction, has a plurality disagreement and lacks a comma between sentence and try. It's almost like you're trying to mock yourself.

So quit trying to change things before you have a full grasp of what the game offers. Come back in a couple months when you've gotten to level 10+ and maby 1750 favor.

I'm level 12, have 1200 favor and have run von6 multiple times.

It seems they want things served on a silver plater at times.

Yeah, it's almost like we pay for the game, every single month. This is a game, not some job where I have to kiss the right ass and pay my dues. I want to log on, and have fun. I then, periodically, would like to be rewarded with a level, a nice item, or some other character advancement. I don't want to be jerked around like DDO is run by Sony.

[moorewr]

You know, I started in mid-January, and my playtime has always been extremely limited. I doubt I played more than ten hours a week until this summer, and frankly I wasn't very good at this game for quite a while at the start.

I went back just now and looked at my e-mail and you know, I had already unlocked Drow in March. It's just not that hard. Go re-run the harbor quests to elite and you are on your way.

The only thing that ever got me down was being 8th level after Mod 4 came out, and discovering that everyone in the world was running their capped characters in GH. It was hard to find groups for a while. Getting groups are the only thing that ever get me down, and my main guild has been really good about that at all levels recently.

Do you know how all these long term high level players discovered the fast way to get levels up, and favor, and items? We played the game. For more then just a few days. They stuck around long enough to get to know people and eventually they got new friends and eventually they made guilds and eventually they adapted and overcame. Come back when you have more expierience under your belt young grasshoppah.

Edit: Some newer players these days really bug me. It seems they want things served on a silver plater at times. Now I grant you that many of us old timers want what we want how we want it but then again we've been around since Beta or Headstart and, frankly, we've earned our right to gripe or ask for things. You newer players have no idea how much this game has changed for the better, for the most part, since the early days. Sure you may have tried it for a couple days way back when but that's hardly giving it a fair shot. So quit trying to change things before you have a full grasp of what the game offers. Come back in a couple months when you've gotten to level 10+ and maby 1750 favor.

[Attomic]

Sorry, I corrected it.



I'm not saying all Elves become Drow when they hit 400 favor, I'm saying that it could be used as an alternative method of letting people become Drow. Favor is a deterrent for many people who are considering buying this game. Obviously, the people who are already paying to play this game don't think it is a deterrent (if they thought that, they wouldn't be paying.) Also, I like that your statement about grammar starts with a conjuction, does not have a plurality disagreement and lacks a comma between "sentence" and "try". It's almost like you're trying to mock yourself.


I'm level 12, have 1200 favor and have run VoN6 multiple times.


Yeah, it's almost like we pay for the game, every single month. This is a game, not some job where I have to kiss the right ass and pay my dues. I want to log on, and have fun. I then, periodically, would like to be rewarded with a level, a nice item, or some other character advancement. I don't want to be jerked around like DDO is run by Sony.

There - as you're laudably concerned with correct grammar, syntax and the like, I thought you might appreciate some constructive editing for improvement.

How on earth is playing the game as designed equivalent to "kissing the right ass and paying my dues"? I suppose you play Monopoly already owning several major properties, if your reasoning is logical and consistent. Or is Hasbro jerking you around by making you start from scratch on that one, too?

[Seneca_Windforge]

Sorry, but playing the game for twelve months as opposed to two months or whatever does not make your opinion any more valid. More informed, maybe, but the OP is entitled to both his opinion and the ability to post said opinion on these forums, and if anyone has a problem with that they'll simply have to deal with it.

To the OP -- I, overall, dislike Drow and the way 32 point build were implemented myself. But while your opinions are valid, Turbine is very unlikely to change the way the favor system works. Believe me, when these features were introduced there were huge threads about both issues, and Turbine didn't budge. As it stands, I can't help but cackle with glee whenever Elves get something that Drow don't (and I cackle even more when the people with Drow start to cry about it).

As it stands, be aware that any Drow you make now will likely be superior than (or at least equal to) any 32 point builds you access in the future. So, if you unlock Drow, make some characters with classes that will benefit from Drow (wizard, sorcerer, rogue, bard...) to play until you hit 1750. Those Drow characters aren't going to be inferior to those new 32 point builds you unlock, since Drow can't be 32 pointers anyway and their stat bonuses are probably worth more than the 4 extra points other's get for those particular classes. I know it isn't as good as being able to upgrade existing 28 point characters to 32, but it will make the process more bearable.

[Attomic]

Sorry, but playing the game for twelve months as opposed to two months or whatever does not make your opinion any more valid. More informed, maybe, but the OP is entitled to both his opinion and the ability to post said opinion on these forums, and if anyone has a problem with that they'll simply have to deal with it.

Sorry, but in weighing one's ability to make judgements, the more informed one is, the more validity one brings to the table from the get-go. Other things add modifiers to that validity, true, but if you think that five to six times as much experience in a thing doesn't lend a lot more credence to one's judgement of it, you need to reevaluate.

As for the second part, people who disagree with the OP are ALSO entitled to THEIR opinions and posting them on these forums, and if anyone has a problem with THAT, THEY'll simply have to deal with it, too. It goes BOTH ways.

[Melthus]

Yeah, it's almost like we pay for the game, every single month. This is a game, not some job where I have to kiss the right ass and pay my dues. I want to log on, and have fun. I then, periodically, would like to be rewarded with a level, a nice item, or some other character advancement. I don't want to be jerked around like DDO is run by Sony.

I started playing DDO earlier this year. My highest char is level 10 (28 point build, of course). I have 4 alts that I play, one of them is drow. I have yet to ever have someone boot me from a group for playing a 28 point build.

The only reason you cannot log on, roll alts, and have fun, is because of your own internal biases. The game is not stopping you. You are!

Either play one character until you hit 1750 favor, only roll drow alts, or just forget about the 4 stat point difference and just enjoy yourself.

I don't find anything about this game to involve "kissing asses" in the least. Paying dues, sure, but then that is no different than levelling, gearing up, and so on.

[rikori2]

Kissing ass and paying dues was in reference to the people who were saying thing like "I've played D&D since 1st edition and have spent every waking hour of my life since DDO came out playing, I'm entitled, blah blah..."

[Attomic]

Kissing ass and paying dues was in reference to the people who were saying thing like "I've played D&D since 1st edition and have spent every waking hour of my life since DDO came out playing, I'm entitled, blah blah..."

Would've been a good idea to say as much... but it still wouldn't negate the fact that you come across as asking for it all on a silver platter.

[Dimicron]

A 28 point build just encourages you to make a pure class build. That way you know how the game is going to play and what you like to do. Once you unlock 32 point builds, you can start trying some odd multiclass combos to try to tweak your characters. But with tomes and whatnot, anything is possible.
Stats are just the beginning, good gear can make a bigger difference in a character than an extra point or two to his/her base stats.