Attn: Sarlona RAIDers

[Nuckin]

LoL if i actually got ne of that outa the raid and u were there to help me complete the raid then sure but seeing as how thats not the situation then cant help ya lol.

So ur sayin if u were in say the dragon raid on ur barb and u have been dying for the SOS and lets say the wizard in the group gets it and u have nothing for trade he wants so he takes it to vender it? there is no way u can even tell me that u wouldnt be insanely mad lol and if u do then ur lying. just saying man.


Say good bye to tomes and raid loot u want with guys like the op in ur party cuz even if they dont need it there gonna take it despite all ur hard work.

How can anyone even agree with the op? i mean come on, if i was on my sorc and the SOS dropped i would't vender it or trade it off lol i would have any of the tanks roll on it or if u dont want everyone to roll on it play favorites like the tank that contributed most or the 2 handed fighting speced barb wit power attack that would own with it but dont take it just cuz it was in ur chest lol. i mean come on and the favoring thing im still not that ok wit but w/e lol. But i mean man u seem extremely selfish to me.

edit: oh and i give alot of stuff away to people who deserve it! or arent expecting me to give it to them, not so much to people who are looking for free handouts, with the exception of new players that is lol.

[rnor6084]

Just as i thought. No, i do not want nor do i expect you to give me your loot for free. I was using absurdity to illustrate my point. Here are my toon names. Do me a favor and remember them.

BIGGRIN
PHERIN
LEAZRA
JIVUNDUS BELBAUE

[Yvonne_Blacksword]

I was wondering why I was always so frightened of PUG raiding on Aerenal...
Have I moved to a kinder gentiler server...

Time for the hate!



All this time...Nuckin? And we don't know eachother?

Wonder why....

[Invalid_6]

My thoughts.

1. The new mechanic will alleviate many issues with raid loot. Now we all have to barter on items we want, unless we actually pull what we're looking for. Saves me the pain of a barbarian rolling on a +3 INT tome for the skill points.

2. When you have the star, you call the shots. When I have the star, I do. If I'm running a raid and you join my raid party, I expect that you follow the rules outlined by the leader. If that means rolling for an item, then so be it. I think it's only fair (and what I typically try to do) is outline the expectations, w/ respect to raid loot, prior to entering the quest. This way, if someone doesn't like the policy then we are able to move on and let everyone play the game the way they enjoy playing it.

Thanks for reading

[Nuckin]

I was wondering why I was always so frightened of PUG raiding on Aerenal...
Have I moved to a kinder gentiler server...

Time for the hate!



All this time...Nuckin? And we don't know eachother?

Wonder why....

lol Yvonne ive seen u around and u have moved to a kindler gentler server? lol hmmm

ok seriously how am i the bad guy here? so u all are telling me that if u have a raid item in ur chest that u absolutely cannot use and no one will trade u an item u will take it and sell it?

What has happened to everyone? i all of a sudded become the bad guy for giving everyone a fair chance that put time into gettting ready for and completeing the raid. And no i am in no way in favor for this new loot system for mod 5.

K so read this! I want to seriously know from everyone that has posted or that is gonna post that when the new system comes out that if u have a raid item in ur chest that u absolutely cannot use u will either try to trade it to the other party members? or u will simply take it and vender it if no one will trade u for it? am i the only one that thinks that is horribly wrong?

Oh and do me the favor and write my names down Rnor, i dont have many enemies in this game if u actually knew me ud know why, and i am a very forgiving person so if u dont wanna group with me add my names to ur list.

[todd31]

To the original poster... I don't agree with you trading an item that may bind to you and be useless to you. You needed those people to get you through the raid and you will actually have a bidding war going on or just keep the item? I disagree with this logic. I will have to ask what peoples policies are on this situation when in group now because I would let the rest of the group roll but not someone like you. You are the reason people will want to pug less. You should bow out of rolling on anyone else's loot then and make your position known going into the raid if you are inflexible to what is best for the group.

Once the item binds it's vendor trash so why not for the good of the group offer it up? Please announce your position on loot before accepting anyone else's loot as a give me or on a roll. Please drop from any party you ever see me in. Thanks.


Marlak

[Teufel_Hunden]

Todd, if you can post your names, i will add them to my list. Thank you.

I am not posting to debate. I refuse to debate over the internet. Special Olympics and all that. I will not respond to angry posts. I will not be cowed into submission or goaded into a fight. I don't know where all this hate is coming from. All I want is to know names. People don't agree with my views, and that's fine. No need for chest thumping; just tell me who you are and i'll jot you down. Its that simple. As for my stance, nothing is absolute. My Wife, my best friend, and his wife, then friends (in that order) have priority on an item i don't want. Other than that, it will be situational. That's all i will say on that subject.

Now, please, all you need to do is let me know your names. If you want to express your opinion, while I'm not interested in hearing it, you can. But why, except to make yourself feel better and establish dominance by thumping your chest like a silver back gorilla? All you need to do is let me know who you are.

Thank you.

[Yvonne_Blacksword]

nope...been told in quests I could not roll on the wiz helm because that was reserved for clerics
SOS was for tanks.
KDS was for rogues...
and if a tome dropped that was for the character that had that particular trait as their main trait only...

was told once my bard should give her sirrocco to the tank.
and that isnt even raid loot.

stuff happens.

leaders favor their guildies...

the world isn't fair.

But if it is my loot. I should have some say in where it goes.

and if the joik wants it bad enough...he will make me a reasonable offer...

rather than give me a hard time for
1.) being unlucky enough to pull my "1 in 6 chance raid loot" and I can't use it

2.) using something someone else wants rather that giving it to someone they think deserves my "1 in 6 chance raid loot"

3.) giving me a hard time for keeping a raid item I could use because they thought they deserved it more.
I have been on more than 50 raids.
I have 2 pieces of raid loot. 4% chance?

KDS and CotSC...

No one in the party had even considered them slightly useful to my bard. At first...

She has been wearing them constantly for 6 and 3 months, respectively.

[Cidolfas]

First, when I'm in a pug raid and I get an item that I want I'm keeping it. When it's an item I don't need, I'll put it up for a roll.

Second, I don't want to be in a pug raid where it becomes "What do you have to offer me for it?" and the highest bidder wins it. But I understand some people play with greed in mind, and I don't discount that as a valid mindset. All I ask is that in the beginning of the raid it's made obvious what the distribution style is. That way, when I join the Titan/DQ/VON/GH/Necro raid and ask, I know to drop instead of wasting my time to wind up with somebody changing their minds when he gets a piece of raid loot I want and the barb can offer him more plat. As long as you're up front about it, I won't have an issue.

I abhor drama. Please, don't produce it just because you're greedy.

[todd31]

Todd, if you can post your names, i will add them to my list. Thank you.

Marlak, Marlik, Marlic, Marliki, Marlika, Marlock and Kilram. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to never have to group with you.

Just so people know, if I pull the napkin out of the Reaver on my barbarian, it will be up for whoever wishes to roll on it. I don't need to profit on a useless item that I pulled. I don't need to force those that worked hard in a raid with me to give me plat or have a bidding war for an item. I will make sure I am in group with like minded people when I pug a raid. I do thank the OP for making me aware that people have a different opinion on how loot should be handled.

It is the OP' choice to do what he wishes, it just not a very popular stance to take and not the right thing to do in my opinion. The new mechanic will take the decisions out of the leaders hands and put it into the players, I just hope we can all make the right choices and not end up with a server full of blacklisted players because of this. Do the right thing.

Marlak

[Teufel_Hunden]

Thank you for your names Todd.

I also say thank you for your post. It was informative, and well spoken. Not an attack against a person. Just you expressing your views in a calm manner. While we may not agree, i can at least respect your decisions. You got your point across without thumping your chest, throwing sticks or poo, and barring your fangs. *salute*. Since you think i'm this horrible guy, allow me to say something.

First off, i am not greedy nor selfish. I almost ALWAYS give money to my clerics in my party. I say "almost" because if I don't have any, i can't give any. You say "how can that be?" "bullcrap" "SHENANAGINS!!". Well i maintain, across all my characters, about 10k plat, sometimes less. WHY? Well, when i can, i give CS wands and anywhere between 2500-3000 plat for one dungeon to the Cleric or Bard. Also, since i play a ranger and bard, i am also buying CS wands and Scrolls of Heal, Raise dead, Mass Aid, Resurrection, Hero's feast, and potions. Lots of potions. Even with a high haggle, it adds up. I don't extort people out of money for items. IF i post something on the AH, my starting price is usually 1/2 of the item base price w/ a buyout of base price. So that Lvl 12 +2 Shocking Burst rapier of pure good vertigo +2 just sold (hopefully) for 9k plat. Now, that's not true figures, as i'm at work and don't have access to the game, but you get the idea. I give a lot of stuff away to my wife and Best friend, even to certain party members that show friendship comraderaie and esprit de corps. On the same token, Since i play a Ranger and Bard, I heal almost as much as the cleric. Either with my Wands or Scrolls. Case in point, my Ranger last night in PoP. cleric stayed out, guess who was keeping the party on their feet? I burned through 3 CS wands that run. My bard is there to lay down some raise dead/resurrect scrolls and the others that are mentioned above. He wands with the best of them. Want to know how much people give me? Take a guess. But i don't complain. never have. In fact, that run in PoP, where my ranger burned out 3 CS wands, I gave THAT cleric 3000 plat.

Now you say i'm greedy for selling my item to a party member. You (not a personal you, general "you") ASSUME i'm going to sell it for 1mil gold or 500k plat or whatever. You (general) think you know me. Well, if i did intend to sell it, it would be for base value. If 2 or more individuals wanted it, then i'll put it up for a roll. Example:
Beginning of Quest:
"welcome to "X" raid. There are no rules to the end loot. Finders Keepers and all that. Feel free to do with the loot as you see fit. Me, if i find something that I, my wife or friend can't use, i'll put it up for either trade or sell at base price. If more than 1 wants it, i'll put it up for roll. Winner gets it at base price. GL and may the force be with you."
*Quest ends*
ME: SoS! ****, can't use it. Honey (my wife), can your pally use it? NO? OK. Friend, Can you? NO? Ok. Hmmm. No current friends in party. Ok. Anybody interested in SoS.."

See not too bad. I would sell the item that i got if I or wife/friends couldn't use it anyway, so no big difference there. I get a little bit of money, they get their item. The cleric(s) get their money. Everyone's happy. If you still think i'm greedy or mean and hateful, then OK. Please think before you judge a stranger's character based off 2 words.

Wow, my fingers are tired.

Teufel
Semper Fi

[todd31]

Ok, it sounded different to me when I read it. This clears up a lot. I understand your situation now and it makes more sense. From what I read before it seemed to sound a bit more harsh. I don't have an issue with what you posted here. There were more than two words posted and I formed an opinion based on them but this seems direct to the point and explains your exact situation. Based on this, no issues on my part.

Thanks

Thank you for your names Todd.

I also say thank you for your post. It was informative, and well spoken. Not an attack against a person. Just you expressing your views in a calm manner. While we may not agree, i can at least respect your decisions. You got your point across without thumping your chest, throwing sticks or poo, and barring your fangs. *salute*. Since you think i'm this horrible guy, allow me to say something.

First off, i am not greedy nor selfish. I almost ALWAYS give money to my clerics in my party. I say "almost" because if I don't have any, i can't give any. You say "how can that be?" "bullcrap" "SHENANAGINS!!". Well i maintain, across all my characters, about 10k plat, sometimes less. WHY? Well, when i can, i give CS wands and anywhere between 2500-3000 plat for one dungeon to the Cleric or Bard. Also, since i play a ranger and bard, i am also buying CS wands and Scrolls of Heal, Raise dead, Mass Aid, Resurrection, Hero's feast, and potions. Lots of potions. Even with a high haggle, it adds up. I don't extort people out of money for items. IF i post something on the AH, my starting price is usually 1/2 of the item base price w/ a buyout of base price. So that Lvl 12 +2 Shocking Burst rapier of pure good vertigo +2 just sold (hopefully) for 9k plat. Now, that's not true figures, as i'm at work and don't have access to the game, but you get the idea. I give a lot of stuff away to my wife and Best friend, even to certain party members that show friendship comraderaie and esprit de corps. On the same token, Since i play a Ranger and Bard, I heal almost as much as the cleric. Either with my Wands or Scrolls. Case in point, my Ranger last night in PoP. cleric stayed out, guess who was keeping the party on their feet? I burned through 3 CS wands that run. My bard is there to lay down some raise dead/resurrect scrolls and the others that are mentioned above. He wands with the best of them. Want to know how much people give me? Take a guess. But i don't complain. never have. In fact, that run in PoP, where my ranger burned out 3 CS wands, I gave THAT cleric 3000 plat.

Now you say i'm greedy for selling my item to a party member. You (not a personal you, general "you") ASSUME i'm going to sell it for 1mil gold or 500k plat or whatever. You (general) think you know me. Well, if i did intend to sell it, it would be for base value. If 2 or more individuals wanted it, then i'll put it up for a roll. Example:
Beginning of Quest:
"welcome to "X" raid. There are no rules to the end loot. Finders Keepers and all that. Feel free to do with the loot as you see fit. Me, if i find something that I, my wife or friend can't use, i'll put it up for either trade or sell at base price. If more than 1 wants it, i'll put it up for roll. Winner gets it at base price. GL and may the force be with you."
*Quest ends*
ME: SoS! ****, can't use it. Honey (my wife), can your pally use it? NO? OK. Friend, Can you? NO? Ok. Hmmm. No current friends in party. Ok. Anybody interested in SoS.."

See not too bad. I would sell the item that i got if I or wife/friends couldn't use it anyway, so no big difference there. I get a little bit of money, they get their item. The cleric(s) get their money. Everyone's happy. If you still think i'm greedy or mean and hateful, then OK. Please think before you judge a stranger's character based off 2 words.

Wow, my fingers are tired.

Teufel
Semper Fi

[Yvonne_Blacksword]

*snip*
and if the joik wants it bad enough...he will make me a reasonable offer...
*snip*

I did say that...
I wonder when I said I would sell it for onbahzilliongillion plats...
Or the highest bidder...?

I said I wanted a say in where MY loot went.

Maybe they got a equal item to trade...it may not seem so to some one els...but I bet they got something on them I would like...

[todd31]

I did say that...
I wonder when I said I would sell it for onbahzilliongillion plats...
Or the highest bidder...?

I said I wanted a say in where MY loot went.

Maybe they got a equal item to trade...it may not seem so to some one els...but I bet they got something on them I would like...

So, punish the world. I didn't get what I wanted so now all of you will pay. Please just let people know that you would not do the same for them when they out of the kindness of their own heart allow you to take a piece of loot without having to offer up the shirt off your back. If everyone was able to recall the forum discussions and see that you would make them offer up an equal item then I am sure they would not let you roll on the loot they can't use ,not because you weren't the right class but because you would not do the same for others.

I could have swore VCA had a guild full of level headed people. This is not the type of person I expected to run across from this guild. Greed before need I guess.

Marlak

[Grinndal]

So this seems like such a useless thread. I dont run many pug raids but with your greedy beliefs i wouldn't want you to join. So names are in the sig so go ahead and write them down. I know everyone is out to better there toons but come on. I hope you get the boots and forget to take them out your inventory and suddenly cant cast a heal on yourself.

[Teufel_Hunden]

jmccn - names have been added, thank you.

[nater]

this all is so confusing but i feel if i cant use soemthing i want someone to have it that can use it . i dont want to have to pick who gets it or who my friends are by giving it away , if an item drops that i dont want or cant use then i pefer that all interested roll on it .
i dont expect to have to pay or trade for a raid item that drops . the reason we raid it to better our self our equipment , and to learn from each other .
i respect other raiders and there for expect to be respected in turn .
i follow the age old rule . (do unto others as you have them do unto you.)
(you get as good as you give .)
thank you for letting me express my .02 cp worth

[Dragonhyde]

It is up to the raid organizer to set up any "rules" at the beginning and up to each player to decide if they want to quest under those conditions. In a freeform pug I do not see any rules being put up but if you decide to join a guild group more than likely there will be. If you disagree with those conditions then do not stay with the group.

The only issues will come from people pulling the old lightning rod ninja move and grabbing loot and running. Or from people deciding this is their chance to milk as much plat for a bound item as they can get. But those type of people are few and far between and will be weeded out of most raid groups in time.

For myself, if I opt to join a raid with rules then I will abide by them as long as I was told in advance. I have been in situations before where I was not told until the end that I was not allowed to get any loot if you have rules it needs to be clear and upfront. If there are no rules it will be just like any other named item I pull, if I can use it then I will if not then it goes to friends in group or I will just ask who wants this silly blankety blank great sword.

[Yvonne_Blacksword]

I am sorry...This is so hard to read.

So, punish the world. I didn't get what I wanted so now all of you will pay.

Huh...is that what I said? huh...
I thought I said that when I was in pug raids (sorry that was before I was ever in VCA and once when I was in a guild that enjoyed harrassing its members to their friends...but I digress...)
Punish the WORLD?...come on. Lets be reasonable....
I guess asking for something I could actually use and I would consider fair trade...Must always be +5 vorpal, banishing, paralyzing flaming burst, holy burst one handed greataxes...instead of a similar stat item, or a weapon I could use...Sorry...I will be less greedy in the future.

Please just let people know that you would not do the same for them when they out of the kindness of their own heart allow you to take a piece of loot without having to offer up the shirt off your back.

The only RAID items I have ever gotten have been while in full VCA guild raids... Honey...we really don't know each other...do we? I have been on more than 40..(that is pronounced for-tee) raids and I have 3 (got the boots this weekend for my tank[/bootlove]) total raid loot items, 5 capped characters. I usually think my guildies deserve the rewards more than I and I only roll on an item once every month or two...Though I raid twice a week. Ususally..sometimes 3.

If everyone was able to recall the forum discussions and see that you would make them offer up an equal item then I am sure they would not let you roll on the loot they can't use ,not because you weren't the right class but because you would not do the same for others.

...And where you got that from...I have no idea...It ok..you must know me well...

I could have swore VCA had a guild full of level headed people. This is not the type of person I expected to run across from this guild. Greed before need I guess.

Marlak

VCA tends to run all guild raid runs. Because of the fact that we run the raids so that our characters (in the guild) will receive the rewards.
We will rarely invite a PUG member along, usually, that member is well known to the guild officers. And well trusted to be both a good player and that they are reasonable.

The raid mechanic has long been a matter of some contempt to many players on the forums.

Others, who prefer to 2 man the raids, will now be the ones having the problem with it.

Raids were never meant to be run with less than 6 (IMHO) and so there are developing attempts to ensure they are run as intended.

1 in 6 chance of getting loot was intended (IMAO) from the beginning.
The fact that the devs thought we would all get along and play nice and that we haven't has caused them to change the format.

And now, dear forum members, I fear I might have stepped over the edge into the oblivion from which there is no return, I had once put up a thread of those I would miss the most...most of them have already passed into legend...I have tried to struggle on...but it becomes more painful to watch some rip each other apart, make unfounded and unchecked allegations without recourse. I will not allow a misinterpretation of my words defame the name of my guild. If you knew us...You would join us.

Viglin, Bluelightbandit, Ciaran...wait for me!...I am coming!

[Knightrose]

My thoughts.

Saves me the pain of a barbarian rolling on a +3 INT tome for the skill points.

Hey man I resent that.